Fultz is untradeable. Our future big 3: Brown, Fultz, 2018 nets pick

[Ilikesports17]

Agree, but let's not forget about Zizic and possibly Yabusele.  Plus Smart and the Clippers and Grizzlies pickd.  Our future is bright.

LOL. i don't think Smart is in our core at all. He has not progressed the way we thought, even physically he still has yet to improve his first step and quickness while having a great chance at doing so by cutting down to 210lbs or less. Smart was in better shape at the 2014 combine than he is now and he still had the highest bf% out of any pg ever drafted in the lotto since they began testing in 2000. Smarts athletic testing was exceptional but he has yet to reduce his weight, even gaining weight, in the face of struggling with quickness and his first step. So Marcus Smart as he currently is physically gives me little hope that he can be the player many of us saw for him back in 2014-now.

This is a subject that is debated endlessly here.  He's a disappointing offensive player, but he makes so many plays that don't show up in a box score while bringing such a tough attitude and heart.  You don't like him, that's fine, to each his own.  I think he could be a valuable sixth man for a long time.

Your wrong. I do like Smart and it KILLS ME that he has not progressed. I agree with you on what he does but he could be doing so much more. I wrote an article after his rookie season because I still had such high hopes for him. Do you know his athletic testing and physical measurements? He's probably the most powerful PG drafted since 2000. I'll try to find the thread I wrote but basically it stated how well he did given that he has the highest BF% out of any pg drafted in the lotto since 2000 ( he also holds the record in bench press) which meant his speed, overall quickness, and first step should be improved if he cut down to 210. He already has the strength, strongest pg taken since 2000...literally, and a no step vertical of 33 and max of 36...which is unheard of with his bf%. His quickness tests were fine too(I'll have to look them all up again). My thinking is that even if he cut down to 210lbs or 205lbs he would still maintain almost all of that strength, which would still make him the strongest and most powerful pg in the league. But after 3 years of waiting he not only hasn't lost the baby fat but he actually has gained weight( I think he is 10-15lbs overweight right now from when he was a rookie). The worst is I know he is a competitor and works hard and has fire for intensity and is great for the culture and is a hard nosed player.....but he has yet to do the one logical thing(lose the weight) that would almost definitly improve his biggest knocks/weaknesses: slow first step, overall quickness.

With his contract coming up as a RFA next year I'd rather trade him now while he has value...he has value over Okafor( a guy I dream about this team getting). With the eventual addition of Fultz and the steady progression of Brown and the good contract of Rozier, I don't see Smart getting any more than 20 minutes a game next year. Fultz, Brown, and Rozier can hold down the 1,2, and 3 with IT/AB/Crowder or FA...and I still think Fultz will beat out AB for starting minutes.

Would you rather let Smart walk in a year? BC IMO we won't extend a guy as a backups backup at the 1/2/3( and Smart should not be playing 3 for most of the time, it's not ideal.

Okafor had a very sucky year. IMO it is part mental and partly that his current skillset and physical qualities do not match up well in PHI. Guys at Okafor's elite size usually take some time. He was 270lbs , and is naturally gifted with strength when he entered the league after 1 year at college . I'm not going to get in to every reason why I like him but the basics are that IMO he is grossly undervalued bc of his crap play and crap defense( especially his soph year). But IMO he has the ability to integrate a legit 15ft jumper/turn around/fade/ stepback into his game. His shot is fluid and quick and is not broken, yet he pauses almost everytime he has an open look for a shot 8ft and out. Teams know this and they pack it in because Okafor almost always dribble drives or dribbles into a post up. I believe he hesitates shooting and then neglects shooting bc something mentally, maybe he feels the best way to score is to post up bc that is what he is extremely good at...but teams know this. OKafor has a 7'6.5'' wingspan and 9'3'' standing reach and he was not measured within a year of the draft. Given our situation and my views on Okafor I would def def def trade Marcus Smart for him.

And that would be dumb.

Okafor is in a bad situation and Id take a flyer on him, but he isnt close to Smart's value.

Marcus is already one of the best roleplayers in the league.

If your favorite part about Marcus Smart is his measurables than you dont understand what he brings to this team.

After game 7, one of the commentators said of Smart that he is everything it means to be a Celtic.

I guess it depends how you define core, but Marcus Smart is a great piece to have moving forward. Im not throwing him away for scraps.

[slightly biased bias fan]

The more I see Mo Bamba the more I love him, he is extremely articulate, mature and has the perfect modern centre game reminiscent of Anthony Davis with a 7'8 wingspan, Ayon is another option so 2018 seems like a perfect draft for us, with a core of Brown and Fultz.

I think a huge advantage that we have over other teams if we keep our picks it that not only do we have a hard nose defensive winning culture but great veteran players to mold our rookies...Horford teaching Bamba, Thomas teaching Fultz and perhaps Hayward teaching Brown.

Btw Mo Bamba has just committed to Texas

[green_bballers13]

Agree, but let's not forget about Zizic and possibly Yabusele.  Plus Smart and the Clippers and Grizzlies pickd.  Our future is bright.

LOL. i don't think Smart is in our core at all. He has not progressed the way we thought, even physically he still has yet to improve his first step and quickness while having a great chance at doing so by cutting down to 210lbs or less. Smart was in better shape at the 2014 combine than he is now and he still had the highest bf% out of any pg ever drafted in the lotto since they began testing in 2000. Smarts athletic testing was exceptional but he has yet to reduce his weight, even gaining weight, in the face of struggling with quickness and his first step. So Marcus Smart as he currently is physically gives me little hope that he can be the player many of us saw for him back in 2014-now.

This is a subject that is debated endlessly here.  He's a disappointing offensive player, but he makes so many plays that don't show up in a box score while bringing such a tough attitude and heart.  You don't like him, that's fine, to each his own.  I think he could be a valuable sixth man for a long time.

Your wrong. I do like Smart and it KILLS ME that he has not progressed. I agree with you on what he does but he could be doing so much more. I wrote an article after his rookie season because I still had such high hopes for him. Do you know his athletic testing and physical measurements? He's probably the most powerful PG drafted since 2000. I'll try to find the thread I wrote but basically it stated how well he did given that he has the highest BF% out of any pg drafted in the lotto since 2000 ( he also holds the record in bench press) which meant his speed, overall quickness, and first step should be improved if he cut down to 210. He already has the strength, strongest pg taken since 2000...literally, and a no step vertical of 33 and max of 36...which is unheard of with his bf%. His quickness tests were fine too(I'll have to look them all up again). My thinking is that even if he cut down to 210lbs or 205lbs he would still maintain almost all of that strength, which would still make him the strongest and most powerful pg in the league. But after 3 years of waiting he not only hasn't lost the baby fat but he actually has gained weight( I think he is 10-15lbs overweight right now from when he was a rookie). The worst is I know he is a competitor and works hard and has fire for intensity and is great for the culture and is a hard nosed player.....but he has yet to do the one logical thing(lose the weight) that would almost definitly improve his biggest knocks/weaknesses: slow first step, overall quickness.

With his contract coming up as a RFA next year I'd rather trade him now while he has value...he has value over Okafor( a guy I dream about this team getting). With the eventual addition of Fultz and the steady progression of Brown and the good contract of Rozier, I don't see Smart getting any more than 20 minutes a game next year. Fultz, Brown, and Rozier can hold down the 1,2, and 3 with IT/AB/Crowder or FA...and I still think Fultz will beat out AB for starting minutes.

Would you rather let Smart walk in a year? BC IMO we won't extend a guy as a backups backup at the 1/2/3( and Smart should not be playing 3 for most of the time, it's not ideal.

Okafor had a very sucky year. IMO it is part mental and partly that his current skillset and physical qualities do not match up well in PHI. Guys at Okafor's elite size usually take some time. He was 270lbs , and is naturally gifted with strength when he entered the league after 1 year at college . I'm not going to get in to every reason why I like him but the basics are that IMO he is grossly undervalued bc of his crap play and crap defense( especially his soph year). But IMO he has the ability to integrate a legit 15ft jumper/turn around/fade/ stepback into his game. His shot is fluid and quick and is not broken, yet he pauses almost everytime he has an open look for a shot 8ft and out. Teams know this and they pack it in because Okafor almost always dribble drives or dribbles into a post up. I believe he hesitates shooting and then neglects shooting bc something mentally, maybe he feels the best way to score is to post up bc that is what he is extremely good at...but teams know this. OKafor has a 7'6.5'' wingspan and 9'3'' standing reach and he was not measured within a year of the draft. Given our situation and my views on Okafor I would def def def trade Marcus Smart for him.

I have zero interest in watching Marcus Smart grind like for Philly.

[playdream]

Agree, but let's not forget about Zizic and possibly Yabusele.  Plus Smart and the Clippers and Grizzlies pickd.  Our future is bright.

LOL. i don't think Smart is in our core at all. He has not progressed the way we thought, even physically he still has yet to improve his first step and quickness while having a great chance at doing so by cutting down to 210lbs or less. Smart was in better shape at the 2014 combine than he is now and he still had the highest bf% out of any pg ever drafted in the lotto since they began testing in 2000. Smarts athletic testing was exceptional but he has yet to reduce his weight, even gaining weight, in the face of struggling with quickness and his first step. So Marcus Smart as he currently is physically gives me little hope that he can be the player many of us saw for him back in 2014-now.

This is a subject that is debated endlessly here.  He's a disappointing offensive player, but he makes so many plays that don't show up in a box score while bringing such a tough attitude and heart.  You don't like him, that's fine, to each his own.  I think he could be a valuable sixth man for a long time.

Your wrong. I do like Smart and it KILLS ME that he has not progressed. I agree with you on what he does but he could be doing so much more. I wrote an article after his rookie season because I still had such high hopes for him. Do you know his athletic testing and physical measurements? He's probably the most powerful PG drafted since 2000. I'll try to find the thread I wrote but basically it stated how well he did given that he has the highest BF% out of any pg drafted in the lotto since 2000 ( he also holds the record in bench press) which meant his speed, overall quickness, and first step should be improved if he cut down to 210. He already has the strength, strongest pg taken since 2000...literally, and a no step vertical of 33 and max of 36...which is unheard of with his bf%. His quickness tests were fine too(I'll have to look them all up again). My thinking is that even if he cut down to 210lbs or 205lbs he would still maintain almost all of that strength, which would still make him the strongest and most powerful pg in the league. But after 3 years of waiting he not only hasn't lost the baby fat but he actually has gained weight( I think he is 10-15lbs overweight right now from when he was a rookie). The worst is I know he is a competitor and works hard and has fire for intensity and is great for the culture and is a hard nosed player.....but he has yet to do the one logical thing(lose the weight) that would almost definitly improve his biggest knocks/weaknesses: slow first step, overall quickness.

With his contract coming up as a RFA next year I'd rather trade him now while he has value...he has value over Okafor( a guy I dream about this team getting). With the eventual addition of Fultz and the steady progression of Brown and the good contract of Rozier, I don't see Smart getting any more than 20 minutes a game next year. Fultz, Brown, and Rozier can hold down the 1,2, and 3 with IT/AB/Crowder or FA...and I still think Fultz will beat out AB for starting minutes.

Would you rather let Smart walk in a year? BC IMO we won't extend a guy as a backups backup at the 1/2/3( and Smart should not be playing 3 for most of the time, it's not ideal.

Okafor had a very sucky year. IMO it is part mental and partly that his current skillset and physical qualities do not match up well in PHI. Guys at Okafor's elite size usually take some time. He was 270lbs , and is naturally gifted with strength when he entered the league after 1 year at college . I'm not going to get in to every reason why I like him but the basics are that IMO he is grossly undervalued bc of his crap play and crap defense( especially his soph year). But IMO he has the ability to integrate a legit 15ft jumper/turn around/fade/ stepback into his game. His shot is fluid and quick and is not broken, yet he pauses almost everytime he has an open look for a shot 8ft and out. Teams know this and they pack it in because Okafor almost always dribble drives or dribbles into a post up. I believe he hesitates shooting and then neglects shooting bc something mentally, maybe he feels the best way to score is to post up bc that is what he is extremely good at...but teams know this. OKafor has a 7'6.5'' wingspan and 9'3'' standing reach and he was not measured within a year of the draft. Given our situation and my views on Okafor I would def def def trade Marcus Smart for him.

Wow i am so glad you aren't our GM lol..

[Future Celtics Owner]

I don't think there's any indication that Brown is capable of being part of a big three, and Fultz/BRK18 are pretty big question marks. If Brown manages to put up 15ppg next year then fine, Fultz I'm a little more bullish on but he needs to prove himself before we pencil him in as a savior. The BRK18 is a huge question mark considering how easy it is to pick a bust when you're choosing big men at the top of the draft.

I honestly do not know what to say.

 What else do you want them to do? What other physical gifts and skill sets do you think they do not possess or lack in? IMO both Fultz and Brown will be getting around 30 minutes a game next year a piece. Fultz will take all the backup pg minutes and start/ or take the rest of the sg minutes. Brown will be taking a lot of minutes at SF and also minutes at SG. IMO, the speed Jaylen's game is progressing and how he has significantly improved the knocks on him when we drafted him: 1. struggles finishing at the rim, 3 point shooting, and defense); I think there is a possibility that he plays his way into the starting line-up. Especially, concider the age of both Fultz and Jaylen...they both should be gaining lean muscle and strength as they train through the 5 month offseason.

Exactly

I mean we literally just saw jaylen freakin brown contest many of lebrons shots successfully forcing him or forcing him to pass.... And brown grabbed like 9 rebounds...In an eastern finals playoff game. If you told me last June this would occur I'd call them  crazy

DOUBLE EXACTLY AND TP

IMO showing flashes in the regular season is great but a high ceiling/ high potential rookie showing flashes on both ends AND sustained play in the ECF is ON A WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL. Brown got NOTHING given to him, he actually had 2 easy dunks taken away from idiot moves by KO and Marcus which would have given him 4 more points and made him 7-9 from the field with 14 pts and 9 rebounds....in just 20 minutes.

We could already have a different form of Jimmy Butler on this team and not know it yet bc Jaylen has continued to steadily progress and he will have a 5-6 month off-season to get stronger, quicker, and improve his skills. Also, he will have experienced the ECF against Lebron and will almost def be looking at the film all summer and working on what he can do to get better, WHICH IS INVALUABLE.

[Ilikesports17]

I don't think there's any indication that Brown is capable of being part of a big three, and Fultz/BRK18 are pretty big question marks. If Brown manages to put up 15ppg next year then fine, Fultz I'm a little more bullish on but he needs to prove himself before we pencil him in as a savior. The BRK18 is a huge question mark considering how easy it is to pick a bust when you're choosing big men at the top of the draft.

I honestly do not know what to say.

 What else do you want them to do? What other physical gifts and skill sets do you think they do not possess or lack in? IMO both Fultz and Brown will be getting around 30 minutes a game next year a piece. Fultz will take all the backup pg minutes and start/ or take the rest of the sg minutes. Brown will be taking a lot of minutes at SF and also minutes at SG. IMO, the speed Jaylen's game is progressing and how he has significantly improved the knocks on him when we drafted him: 1. struggles finishing at the rim, 3 point shooting, and defense); I think there is a possibility that he plays his way into the starting line-up. Especially, concider the age of both Fultz and Jaylen...they both should be gaining lean muscle and strength as they train through the 5 month offseason.

Exactly

I mean we literally just saw jaylen freakin brown contest many of lebrons shots successfully forcing him or forcing him to pass.... And brown grabbed like 9 rebounds...In an eastern finals playoff game. If you told me last June this would occur I'd call them  crazy

DOUBLE EXACTLY AND TP

IMO showing flashes in the regular season is great but a high ceiling/ high potential rookie showing flashes on both ends AND sustained play in the ECF is ON A WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL. Brown got NOTHING given to him, he actually had 2 easy dunks taken away from idiot moves by KO and Marcus which would have given him 4 more points and made him 7-9 from the field with 14 pts and 9 rebounds....in just 20 minutes.

We could already have a different form of Jimmy Butler on this team and not know it yet bc Jaylen has continued to steadily progress and he will have a 5-6 month off-season to get stronger, quicker, and improve his skills. Also, he will have experienced the ECF against Lebron and will almost def be looking at the film all summer and working on what he can do to get better, WHICH IS INVALUABLE.

great prospects for sure, but you cant count on 19 year olds turning into NBA stars. Doesnt matter how good they look and as good as Brown's been, he ultimately had a less than spectacular rookie season.

It was a season that certainly doesnt preclude him from becoming a star, but it doesnt set it in stone either.

Fultz seems a sure thing to at least be a well above average starter. He should be a star, but hes yet to play a game. Lets pump the breaks.

As for Brooklyn '18... theres so much up in the air there. Brooklyn could get an FA or 2, Brooklyn could be really healthy, other teams could suffer injury misfortune, we could get bad lotto luck etc.

Its far from out of the question that '18 ends up a shallow draft and we have pick 8 or so.

That core is FAR from garunteed to ever be as good as our current 53 win outfit.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Agree, but let's not forget about Zizic and possibly Yabusele.  Plus Smart and the Clippers and Grizzlies pickd.  Our future is bright.

LOL. i don't think Smart is in our core at all. He has not progressed the way we thought, even physically he still has yet to improve his first step and quickness while having a great chance at doing so by cutting down to 210lbs or less. Smart was in better shape at the 2014 combine than he is now and he still had the highest bf% out of any pg ever drafted in the lotto since they began testing in 2000. Smarts athletic testing was exceptional but he has yet to reduce his weight, even gaining weight, in the face of struggling with quickness and his first step. So Marcus Smart as he currently is physically gives me little hope that he can be the player many of us saw for him back in 2014-now.

This is a subject that is debated endlessly here.  He's a disappointing offensive player, but he makes so many plays that don't show up in a box score while bringing such a tough attitude and heart.  You don't like him, that's fine, to each his own.  I think he could be a valuable sixth man for a long time.

Your wrong. I do like Smart and it KILLS ME that he has not progressed. I agree with you on what he does but he could be doing so much more. I wrote an article after his rookie season because I still had such high hopes for him. Do you know his athletic testing and physical measurements? He's probably the most powerful PG drafted since 2000. I'll try to find the thread I wrote but basically it stated how well he did given that he has the highest BF% out of any pg drafted in the lotto since 2000 ( he also holds the record in bench press) which meant his speed, overall quickness, and first step should be improved if he cut down to 210. He already has the strength, strongest pg taken since 2000...literally, and a no step vertical of 33 and max of 36...which is unheard of with his bf%. His quickness tests were fine too(I'll have to look them all up again). My thinking is that even if he cut down to 210lbs or 205lbs he would still maintain almost all of that strength, which would still make him the strongest and most powerful pg in the league. But after 3 years of waiting he not only hasn't lost the baby fat but he actually has gained weight( I think he is 10-15lbs overweight right now from when he was a rookie). The worst is I know he is a competitor and works hard and has fire for intensity and is great for the culture and is a hard nosed player.....but he has yet to do the one logical thing(lose the weight) that would almost definitly improve his biggest knocks/weaknesses: slow first step, overall quickness.

With his contract coming up as a RFA next year I'd rather trade him now while he has value...he has value over Okafor( a guy I dream about this team getting). With the eventual addition of Fultz and the steady progression of Brown and the good contract of Rozier, I don't see Smart getting any more than 20 minutes a game next year. Fultz, Brown, and Rozier can hold down the 1,2, and 3 with IT/AB/Crowder or FA...and I still think Fultz will beat out AB for starting minutes.

Would you rather let Smart walk in a year? BC IMO we won't extend a guy as a backups backup at the 1/2/3( and Smart should not be playing 3 for most of the time, it's not ideal.

Okafor had a very sucky year. IMO it is part mental and partly that his current skillset and physical qualities do not match up well in PHI. Guys at Okafor's elite size usually take some time. He was 270lbs , and is naturally gifted with strength when he entered the league after 1 year at college . I'm not going to get in to every reason why I like him but the basics are that IMO he is grossly undervalued bc of his crap play and crap defense( especially his soph year). But IMO he has the ability to integrate a legit 15ft jumper/turn around/fade/ stepback into his game. His shot is fluid and quick and is not broken, yet he pauses almost everytime he has an open look for a shot 8ft and out. Teams know this and they pack it in because Okafor almost always dribble drives or dribbles into a post up. I believe he hesitates shooting and then neglects shooting bc something mentally, maybe he feels the best way to score is to post up bc that is what he is extremely good at...but teams know this. OKafor has a 7'6.5'' wingspan and 9'3'' standing reach and he was not measured within a year of the draft. Given our situation and my views on Okafor I would def def def trade Marcus Smart for him.

Wow i am so glad you aren't our GM lol..

Why bc you don't like Okafor. That's fine and I already conceded that I get where other people are coming from and that he has played like crap....but I see an undervalued guy with more potential than most would like to say or realize. I also see a guy that is the odd man out on a team adding a #1 overall pick that plays the 1 and can play the 2. Then we have a guy in Jaylen that should be taking more minutes at the 2/3. We also have Rozier who can play the 1/2 and is on a better contract and unlike Marcus has the ability to possibly become a creator off the dribble......where does Marcus fit in and are we actually going to extend him on a year...I just don't think so. So we are going to lessen his minutes and play him out of position as a role player and hen let him walk next summer???
Have you thought what would happen if we sign Hayward, well that's even less minutes. Do you even care if he walks. If you could have gotten an asset from Sully or ET a year before they walked and hypothetically they had some value, would you have?

[liam]

I don't think there's any indication that Brown is capable of being part of a big three, and Fultz/BRK18 are pretty big question marks. If Brown manages to put up 15ppg next year then fine, Fultz I'm a little more bullish on but he needs to prove himself before we pencil him in as a savior. The BRK18 is a huge question mark considering how easy it is to pick a bust when you're choosing big men at the top of the draft.

I honestly do not know what to say.

 What else do you want them to do? What other physical gifts and skill sets do you think they do not possess or lack in? IMO both Fultz and Brown will be getting around 30 minutes a game next year a piece. Fultz will take all the backup pg minutes and start/ or take the rest of the sg minutes. Brown will be taking a lot of minutes at SF and also minutes at SG. IMO, the speed Jaylen's game is progressing and how he has significantly improved the knocks on him when we drafted him: 1. struggles finishing at the rim, 3 point shooting, and defense); I think there is a possibility that he plays his way into the starting line-up. Especially, concider the age of both Fultz and Jaylen...they both should be gaining lean muscle and strength as they train through the 5 month offseason.

Exactly

I mean we literally just saw jaylen freakin brown contest many of lebrons shots successfully forcing him or forcing him to pass.... And brown grabbed like 9 rebounds...In an eastern finals playoff game. If you told me last June this would occur I'd call them  crazy

DOUBLE EXACTLY AND TP

IMO showing flashes in the regular season is great but a high ceiling/ high potential rookie showing flashes on both ends AND sustained play in the ECF is ON A WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL. Brown got NOTHING given to him, he actually had 2 easy dunks taken away from idiot moves by KO and Marcus which would have given him 4 more points and made him 7-9 from the field with 14 pts and 9 rebounds....in just 20 minutes.

We could already have a different form of Jimmy Butler on this team and not know it yet bc Jaylen has continued to steadily progress and he will have a 5-6 month off-season to get stronger, quicker, and improve his skills. Also, he will have experienced the ECF against Lebron and will almost def be looking at the film all summer and working on what he can do to get better, WHICH IS INVALUABLE.

great prospects for sure, but you cant count on 19 year olds turning into NBA stars. Doesnt matter how good they look and as good as Brown's been, he ultimately had a less than spectacular rookie season.

It was a season that certainly doesnt preclude him from becoming a star, but it doesnt set it in stone either.

Fultz seems a sure thing to at least be a well above average starter. He should be a star, but hes yet to play a game. Lets pump the breaks.

As for Brooklyn '18... theres so much up in the air there. Brooklyn could get an FA or 2, Brooklyn could be really healthy, other teams could suffer injury misfortune, we could get bad lotto luck etc.

Its far from out of the question that '18 ends up a shallow draft and we have pick 8 or so.

That core is FAR from garunteed to ever be as good as our current 53 win outfit.

"less than spectacular" means great, right?

[Ilikesports17]

I don't think there's any indication that Brown is capable of being part of a big three, and Fultz/BRK18 are pretty big question marks. If Brown manages to put up 15ppg next year then fine, Fultz I'm a little more bullish on but he needs to prove himself before we pencil him in as a savior. The BRK18 is a huge question mark considering how easy it is to pick a bust when you're choosing big men at the top of the draft.

I honestly do not know what to say.

 What else do you want them to do? What other physical gifts and skill sets do you think they do not possess or lack in? IMO both Fultz and Brown will be getting around 30 minutes a game next year a piece. Fultz will take all the backup pg minutes and start/ or take the rest of the sg minutes. Brown will be taking a lot of minutes at SF and also minutes at SG. IMO, the speed Jaylen's game is progressing and how he has significantly improved the knocks on him when we drafted him: 1. struggles finishing at the rim, 3 point shooting, and defense); I think there is a possibility that he plays his way into the starting line-up. Especially, concider the age of both Fultz and Jaylen...they both should be gaining lean muscle and strength as they train through the 5 month offseason.

Exactly

I mean we literally just saw jaylen freakin brown contest many of lebrons shots successfully forcing him or forcing him to pass.... And brown grabbed like 9 rebounds...In an eastern finals playoff game. If you told me last June this would occur I'd call them  crazy

DOUBLE EXACTLY AND TP

IMO showing flashes in the regular season is great but a high ceiling/ high potential rookie showing flashes on both ends AND sustained play in the ECF is ON A WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL. Brown got NOTHING given to him, he actually had 2 easy dunks taken away from idiot moves by KO and Marcus which would have given him 4 more points and made him 7-9 from the field with 14 pts and 9 rebounds....in just 20 minutes.

We could already have a different form of Jimmy Butler on this team and not know it yet bc Jaylen has continued to steadily progress and he will have a 5-6 month off-season to get stronger, quicker, and improve his skills. Also, he will have experienced the ECF against Lebron and will almost def be looking at the film all summer and working on what he can do to get better, WHICH IS INVALUABLE.

great prospects for sure, but you cant count on 19 year olds turning into NBA stars. Doesnt matter how good they look and as good as Brown's been, he ultimately had a less than spectacular rookie season.

It was a season that certainly doesnt preclude him from becoming a star, but it doesnt set it in stone either.

Fultz seems a sure thing to at least be a well above average starter. He should be a star, but hes yet to play a game. Lets pump the breaks.

As for Brooklyn '18... theres so much up in the air there. Brooklyn could get an FA or 2, Brooklyn could be really healthy, other teams could suffer injury misfortune, we could get bad lotto luck etc.

Its far from out of the question that '18 ends up a shallow draft and we have pick 8 or so.

That core is FAR from garunteed to ever be as good as our current 53 win outfit.

"less than spectacular" means great, right?

It means less than spectacular. In Brown's case I thought he had a very very good rookie season. He answered questions about his jumper and finishing ability.

He also displayed the perfect mentality for a star.

It was a very encouraging rookie season. It was not spectacular in the sense that he didnt come out and establish himself as a future star. Some players come in and by the end of their rookie season, they are more or less stars. Jaylen did not do this. I dont mean it as a slight. He had a very good rookie season and I would guess he will become an all-star.

I love the way he carries himself and the way he plays. Im just throwing some caution to the wind here. I mean the way he gets talked about, you  start to think people would be dissapointed if he ended up like Iguodala.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I don't think there's any indication that Brown is capable of being part of a big three, and Fultz/BRK18 are pretty big question marks. If Brown manages to put up 15ppg next year then fine, Fultz I'm a little more bullish on but he needs to prove himself before we pencil him in as a savior. The BRK18 is a huge question mark considering how easy it is to pick a bust when you're choosing big men at the top of the draft.

I honestly do not know what to say.

 What else do you want them to do? What other physical gifts and skill sets do you think they do not possess or lack in? IMO both Fultz and Brown will be getting around 30 minutes a game next year a piece. Fultz will take all the backup pg minutes and start/ or take the rest of the sg minutes. Brown will be taking a lot of minutes at SF and also minutes at SG. IMO, the speed Jaylen's game is progressing and how he has significantly improved the knocks on him when we drafted him: 1. struggles finishing at the rim, 3 point shooting, and defense); I think there is a possibility that he plays his way into the starting line-up. Especially, concider the age of both Fultz and Jaylen...they both should be gaining lean muscle and strength as they train through the 5 month offseason.

Exactly

I mean we literally just saw jaylen freakin brown contest many of lebrons shots successfully forcing him or forcing him to pass.... And brown grabbed like 9 rebounds...In an eastern finals playoff game. If you told me last June this would occur I'd call them  crazy

DOUBLE EXACTLY AND TP

IMO showing flashes in the regular season is great but a high ceiling/ high potential rookie showing flashes on both ends AND sustained play in the ECF is ON A WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL. Brown got NOTHING given to him, he actually had 2 easy dunks taken away from idiot moves by KO and Marcus which would have given him 4 more points and made him 7-9 from the field with 14 pts and 9 rebounds....in just 20 minutes.

We could already have a different form of Jimmy Butler on this team and not know it yet bc Jaylen has continued to steadily progress and he will have a 5-6 month off-season to get stronger, quicker, and improve his skills. Also, he will have experienced the ECF against Lebron and will almost def be looking at the film all summer and working on what he can do to get better, WHICH IS INVALUABLE.

great prospects for sure, but you cant count on 19 year olds turning into NBA stars. Doesnt matter how good they look and as good as Brown's been, he ultimately had a less than spectacular rookie season.

It was a season that certainly doesnt preclude him from becoming a star, but it doesnt set it in stone either.

Fultz seems a sure thing to at least be a well above average starter. He should be a star, but hes yet to play a game. Lets pump the breaks.

As for Brooklyn '18... theres so much up in the air there. Brooklyn could get an FA or 2, Brooklyn could be really healthy, other teams could suffer injury misfortune, we could get bad lotto luck etc.

Its far from out of the question that '18 ends up a shallow draft and we have pick 8 or so.

That core is FAR from garunteed to ever be as good as our current 53 win outfit.

I think we agree but have miscommunicated. I never said it was written that next year Jaylen and Fultz will be stars at 19 and 20. I gave my opinion based on a lot of variables that these 2 could very well get a lot of playing time at the 1/2/3 between the both of them.
Even though I love both players steady progression, skill set, and physical gifts I do think next year is not a break-out star type of year for them. But, imo I do believe they will both average 30mpg each...even if they don't start.

[trickybilly]

I'm looking forward to next year more than the rest of this series..

[knuckleballer]

Agree, but let's not forget about Zizic and possibly Yabusele.  Plus Smart and the Clippers and Grizzlies pickd.  Our future is bright.

LOL. i don't think Smart is in our core at all. He has not progressed the way we thought, even physically he still has yet to improve his first step and quickness while having a great chance at doing so by cutting down to 210lbs or less. Smart was in better shape at the 2014 combine than he is now and he still had the highest bf% out of any pg ever drafted in the lotto since they began testing in 2000. Smarts athletic testing was exceptional but he has yet to reduce his weight, even gaining weight, in the face of struggling with quickness and his first step. So Marcus Smart as he currently is physically gives me little hope that he can be the player many of us saw for him back in 2014-now.

This is a subject that is debated endlessly here.  He's a disappointing offensive player, but he makes so many plays that don't show up in a box score while bringing such a tough attitude and heart.  You don't like him, that's fine, to each his own.  I think he could be a valuable sixth man for a long time.

Your wrong. I do like Smart and it KILLS ME that he has not progressed. I agree with you on what he does but he could be doing so much more. I wrote an article after his rookie season because I still had such high hopes for him. Do you know his athletic testing and physical measurements? He's probably the most powerful PG drafted since 2000. I'll try to find the thread I wrote but basically it stated how well he did given that he has the highest BF% out of any pg drafted in the lotto since 2000 ( he also holds the record in bench press) which meant his speed, overall quickness, and first step should be improved if he cut down to 210. He already has the strength, strongest pg taken since 2000...literally, and a no step vertical of 33 and max of 36...which is unheard of with his bf%. His quickness tests were fine too(I'll have to look them all up again). My thinking is that even if he cut down to 210lbs or 205lbs he would still maintain almost all of that strength, which would still make him the strongest and most powerful pg in the league. But after 3 years of waiting he not only hasn't lost the baby fat but he actually has gained weight( I think he is 10-15lbs overweight right now from when he was a rookie). The worst is I know he is a competitor and works hard and has fire for intensity and is great for the culture and is a hard nosed player.....but he has yet to do the one logical thing(lose the weight) that would almost definitly improve his biggest knocks/weaknesses: slow first step, overall quickness.

With his contract coming up as a RFA next year I'd rather trade him now while he has value...he has value over Okafor( a guy I dream about this team getting). With the eventual addition of Fultz and the steady progression of Brown and the good contract of Rozier, I don't see Smart getting any more than 20 minutes a game next year. Fultz, Brown, and Rozier can hold down the 1,2, and 3 with IT/AB/Crowder or FA...and I still think Fultz will beat out AB for starting minutes.

Would you rather let Smart walk in a year? BC IMO we won't extend a guy as a backups backup at the 1/2/3( and Smart should not be playing 3 for most of the time, it's not ideal.

Okafor had a very sucky year. IMO it is part mental and partly that his current skillset and physical qualities do not match up well in PHI. Guys at Okafor's elite size usually take some time. He was 270lbs , and is naturally gifted with strength when he entered the league after 1 year at college . I'm not going to get in to every reason why I like him but the basics are that IMO he is grossly undervalued bc of his crap play and crap defense( especially his soph year). But IMO he has the ability to integrate a legit 15ft jumper/turn around/fade/ stepback into his game. His shot is fluid and quick and is not broken, yet he pauses almost everytime he has an open look for a shot 8ft and out. Teams know this and they pack it in because Okafor almost always dribble drives or dribbles into a post up. I believe he hesitates shooting and then neglects shooting bc something mentally, maybe he feels the best way to score is to post up bc that is what he is extremely good at...but teams know this. OKafor has a 7'6.5'' wingspan and 9'3'' standing reach and he was not measured within a year of the draft. Given our situation and my views on Okafor I would def def def trade Marcus Smart for him.

I would be happy to discuss all these subjects with you but your thoughts are all over the place.  I never suggested Smart will be among the top few players of this team's future, but I do think he could be a useful component, there's a difference. Where did the Okafor rant come from?  Honestly, I was high on him a couple of years ago, but the past couple of years taught me differently.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Agree, but let's not forget about Zizic and possibly Yabusele.  Plus Smart and the Clippers and Grizzlies pickd.  Our future is bright.

LOL. i don't think Smart is in our core at all. He has not progressed the way we thought, even physically he still has yet to improve his first step and quickness while having a great chance at doing so by cutting down to 210lbs or less. Smart was in better shape at the 2014 combine than he is now and he still had the highest bf% out of any pg ever drafted in the lotto since they began testing in 2000. Smarts athletic testing was exceptional but he has yet to reduce his weight, even gaining weight, in the face of struggling with quickness and his first step. So Marcus Smart as he currently is physically gives me little hope that he can be the player many of us saw for him back in 2014-now.

This is a subject that is debated endlessly here.  He's a disappointing offensive player, but he makes so many plays that don't show up in a box score while bringing such a tough attitude and heart.  You don't like him, that's fine, to each his own.  I think he could be a valuable sixth man for a long time.

Your wrong. I do like Smart and it KILLS ME that he has not progressed. I agree with you on what he does but he could be doing so much more. I wrote an article after his rookie season because I still had such high hopes for him. Do you know his athletic testing and physical measurements? He's probably the most powerful PG drafted since 2000. I'll try to find the thread I wrote but basically it stated how well he did given that he has the highest BF% out of any pg drafted in the lotto since 2000 ( he also holds the record in bench press) which meant his speed, overall quickness, and first step should be improved if he cut down to 210. He already has the strength, strongest pg taken since 2000...literally, and a no step vertical of 33 and max of 36...which is unheard of with his bf%. His quickness tests were fine too(I'll have to look them all up again). My thinking is that even if he cut down to 210lbs or 205lbs he would still maintain almost all of that strength, which would still make him the strongest and most powerful pg in the league. But after 3 years of waiting he not only hasn't lost the baby fat but he actually has gained weight( I think he is 10-15lbs overweight right now from when he was a rookie). The worst is I know he is a competitor and works hard and has fire for intensity and is great for the culture and is a hard nosed player.....but he has yet to do the one logical thing(lose the weight) that would almost definitly improve his biggest knocks/weaknesses: slow first step, overall quickness.

With his contract coming up as a RFA next year I'd rather trade him now while he has value...he has value over Okafor( a guy I dream about this team getting). With the eventual addition of Fultz and the steady progression of Brown and the good contract of Rozier, I don't see Smart getting any more than 20 minutes a game next year. Fultz, Brown, and Rozier can hold down the 1,2, and 3 with IT/AB/Crowder or FA...and I still think Fultz will beat out AB for starting minutes.

Would you rather let Smart walk in a year? BC IMO we won't extend a guy as a backups backup at the 1/2/3( and Smart should not be playing 3 for most of the time, it's not ideal.

Okafor had a very sucky year. IMO it is part mental and partly that his current skillset and physical qualities do not match up well in PHI. Guys at Okafor's elite size usually take some time. He was 270lbs , and is naturally gifted with strength when he entered the league after 1 year at college . I'm not going to get in to every reason why I like him but the basics are that IMO he is grossly undervalued bc of his crap play and crap defense( especially his soph year). But IMO he has the ability to integrate a legit 15ft jumper/turn around/fade/ stepback into his game. His shot is fluid and quick and is not broken, yet he pauses almost everytime he has an open look for a shot 8ft and out. Teams know this and they pack it in because Okafor almost always dribble drives or dribbles into a post up. I believe he hesitates shooting and then neglects shooting bc something mentally, maybe he feels the best way to score is to post up bc that is what he is extremely good at...but teams know this. OKafor has a 7'6.5'' wingspan and 9'3'' standing reach and he was not measured within a year of the draft. Given our situation and my views on Okafor I would def def def trade Marcus Smart for him.

I would be happy to discuss all these subjects with you but your thoughts are all over the place.  I never suggested Smart will be among the top few players of this team's future, but I do think he could be a useful component, there's a difference. Where did the Okafor rant come from?  Honestly, I was high on him a couple of years ago, but the past couple of years taught me differently.

Someone else posted but it is not shown on this one.

Ya let's talk you can message me or I'll try to get to you tomorrow...it's getting late.

I guess I'd rather make sure to get something back from Smart. Who knows what he could be offered by a team in a year. A crappy team with a lot of cap space could pull a BKN and elevate his value.  Or if we sign a FA we will have to make room anyway and who knows who DA will try to get rid of and possibly pennies on the dollar. Main thing is idk anything for certain, but I'm pretty sure PHI would accept that trade...that's a whole other talk tho.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Best thing about last night, while the other Celtics looked intimidated---Jaylen Brown came off the bench with an EFF THIS attitude, and went to work...Dude is NOT scared of the moment at all.

Gonna be our best player soon, if they only start running plays for him.

[Somebody]

Hoping for Porter or Bamba with the 18 Brooklyn pick