Hayward + Fultz OR Hayward + Butler addition in the offseason? (poll)

[Tr1boy]

Forget about PG13... He is from LA. He likes MAgic. He worksout with Kobe in the offseason. The writing is on the wall he is going to join the Lakers one way or another in a year or two (maybe as soon as this offseason if the Pacers trade him revolving around the #2 pick)

Celtics have a chance to match this (plus propel past the Cavs).... by either the two options above.  But which one do you like best so that it helps the Celts contend in the short and long term? 

1st plan

*Sign Hayward and draft Fultz
requirement:  Shed/trade some contracts.  Meaning Zeller, AB or Crowder are gone. Max contract for Hayward. Obtaining Fultz will cost nothing

The Pros:  Team improves from current team today.   Short and Long term outlook is bright.  in case IT4 decides to walk you are likely set with Fultz at the pg position.

The Cons: But unless Fultz reaches potential quickly .. still lagging behind the Cavs.  Lakers could propel ahead as well ... if PG13 brought in via trade, LA quickly becomes a hotbed for FAs   

Projected lineup

Zizic
Horford
Hayward
Fultz
IT4

KO
Yabu
Brown
Smart
Rozier


2nd plan

*sign Hayward and trade for Butler
requirements:  Hayward (see above).  To pry Butler from the Bulls trade the #1 pick, Crowder, AB, Zeller.   Lose KO to free agency

The Pros:  Best/Legit chance to beat the Cavs.  Celtics become a FA hotbed for vet FAs willing to eat less money for a chance to win a ring.

The Cons: Failure to beat the Cavs in ECF.   Fultz may turn out to be a stud.

Projected lineup

Zizic
Horford
Butler
Hayward
IT4

Yabu
Brown
Smart
Rozier

[Who]

Keep Fultz. Trade IT for Butler.

[Roy H.]

So:

A) Hayward + Fultz for AB and scrubs; or

B) Hayward + Butler for Fultz + AB + Crowder + KO + scrubs?

To me, that's not a close call.

[Smokeeye123]

Keep Fultz, sign Hayward, Trade Bradley/Crowder/pick(s) for frontcourt help.

I think that's the best of both worlds if you want to compete now and build for 2020+ when Lebron isn't a god anymore.

[Tr1boy]

So:

A) Hayward + Fultz for AB and scrubs; or

B) Hayward + Butler for Fultz + AB + Crowder + KO + scrubs?

To me, that's not a close call.

Either way salaries will need to be shed and sacrifices made (crowder and ab gone for example)

the difference is keeping Fultz or using the #1 for Butler....  either way you got a good player for the next 3-4 years.  One is a proven all star. The other one could be here the next 10-12 years

[Roy H.]

So:

A) Hayward + Fultz for AB and scrubs; or

B) Hayward + Butler for Fultz + AB + Crowder + KO + scrubs?

To me, that's not a close call.

Either way salaries will need to be shed and sacrifices made (crowder and ab gone for example)

the difference is keeping Fultz or using the #1 for Butler....  either way you got a good player for the next 3-4 years.  One is a proven all star. The other one could be here the next 10-12 years

Right, but I'm just going by your scenarios. It's not 1-for-1; you lose a lot more by acquiring Butler.

Fultz will be better than Butler in 3 years, anyway.

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

Keep Fultz. Trade IT for Butler.

This would be ideal, but I dont see it working.

Does Hayward come here if we dont have Thomas? How does the team react to the transition from Thomas to Butler, does Chicago trade Butler if they are only getting Thomas in return (same tier player, who is older and has less time left on his contract?

Plus, Butlers contract is (I think) 13 million more than Thomas's which means (obviously) wed need to clear 15 million on top of it to max out Gordon Hayward.

How do you clear 15 million? easy. Trade Bradley and Crowder. get one of them included in the Butler deal and move the other for picks.

Now you have: Rozier, Fultz, Smart, Brown, Hayward, Butler, Zizic, Yabu, Horford and 0 cap space.

I suppose it works, but you basically shell out Bradley-Crowder-Thomas for Butler which is a massive net talent loss.

[knuckleballer]

Keep Fultz, sign Hayward, Trade Bradley/Crowder/pick(s) for frontcourt help.

I think that's the best of both worlds if you want to compete now and build for 2020+ when Lebron isn't a god anymore.

That sounds like the ideal scenario to me.  What frontcourt players could be available for Crowder and Bradley?  They would have to have a salary around or less than Bradley to free up money for Hayward assuming we keep Olynyk.

[Tr1boy]

So:

A) Hayward + Fultz for AB and scrubs; or

B) Hayward + Butler for Fultz + AB + Crowder + KO + scrubs?

To me, that's not a close call.

Either way salaries will need to be shed and sacrifices made (crowder and ab gone for example)

the difference is keeping Fultz or using the #1 for Butler....  either way you got a good player for the next 3-4 years.  One is a proven all star. The other one could be here the next 10-12 years

Right, but I'm just going by your scenarios. It's not 1-for-1; you lose a lot more by acquiring Butler.

Fultz will be better than Butler in 3 years, anyway.

Yes but will IT4 still be here? will Horford have much left in the tank?

This is like a game of walking on a tightrope...one little mis step may mean lost opportunity to get the finals

But sounds for you Hayward Butler additions + Horford + IT4 won't cut against the Cavs, or GSW anyways

[droopdog7]

What about Fultz + Butler?  Could trade the 18 pick plus other for Butler.

[Roy H.]

So:

A) Hayward + Fultz for AB and scrubs; or

B) Hayward + Butler for Fultz + AB + Crowder + KO + scrubs?

To me, that's not a close call.

Either way salaries will need to be shed and sacrifices made (crowder and ab gone for example)

the difference is keeping Fultz or using the #1 for Butler....  either way you got a good player for the next 3-4 years.  One is a proven all star. The other one could be here the next 10-12 years

Right, but I'm just going by your scenarios. It's not 1-for-1; you lose a lot more by acquiring Butler.

Fultz will be better than Butler in 3 years, anyway.

Yes but will IT4 still be here? will Horford have much left in the tank?

This is like a game of walking on a tightrope...one little mis step may mean lost opportunity to get the finals

But sounds for you Hayward Butler additions + Horford + IT4 won't cut against the Cavs, or GSW warriors anyways

Correct, I don't think Hayward + Butler, but subtracting Fultz, AB, Crowder, and KO gets us by the Cavs and Warriors.

[crimson_stallion]

I'm going to say neither and say Butler + Fultz instead.

Keep Fultz, and work out some kinda of package (2018 Brk 1st + Bradley + Crowder maybe) for Butler. 

This deal is pretty close to what Chicago reportedly wanted for Butler this season, as apparently they wanted 2017 Brk 1st + Bradley + Crowder and Danny was willing to give up one of Bradley/Crowder but not both). 

It's not quite the same value as the 2018 pick is not as certain as the 2017 pick was at the trade deadline, but Brooklyn are clearly hot garbage and aren't likely to be going very far up.

I'm a little concerned by the potential defensive limitations of a Thomas/Fultz/Hayward lineup (Fultz has defensive potential, but it can take rookie guards a year or two to pick up defence). 

Having Butler in there instead of Hayward makes me feel a lot more comfortable defensively, and it also gives us more cap flexibility.  Since we are only taking back $3M in extra salary, we would essentially have $26M - $27M in cap space left over to re-sign Olynyk and go after a starting big (Ibaka? Noel?) to start alongside Horford.

I feel this is the best option for Boston. 

[Smokeeye123]

Keep Fultz, sign Hayward, Trade Bradley/Crowder/pick(s) for frontcourt help.

I think that's the best of both worlds if you want to compete now and build for 2020+ when Lebron isn't a god anymore.

That sounds like the ideal scenario to me.  What frontcourt players could be available for Crowder and Bradley?  They would have to have a salary around or less than Bradley to free up money for Hayward assuming we keep Olynyk.

I'm at work so I dont have the time to look at salaries and contracts but Gorgui Deng, James Johnson, Patrick Patterson, , Jamychal Green etc could all help.

Defense and rebound oriented and realistic trade targets for Bradley. Obviously these guys still get beaten by Lebron James, but I definitely think they could help defend him better

[Donoghus]

Hayward/Fultz.  No brainer.

One acquired via FA and one rookie cost controlled contract.  Why gut your roster for Butler?  Seems like subtraction by addition.

[Tr1boy]

I'm going to say neither and say Butler + Fultz instead.

Keep Fultz, and work out some kinda of package (2018 Brk 1st + Bradley + Crowder maybe) for Butler. 

This deal is pretty close to what Chicago reportedly wanted for Butler this season, as apparently they wanted 2017 Brk 1st + Bradley + Crowder and Danny was willing to give up one of Bradley/Crowder but not both). 

It's not quite the same value as the 2018 pick is not as certain as the 2017 pick was at the trade deadline, but Brooklyn are clearly hot garbage and aren't likely to be going very far up.

I'm a little concerned by the potential defensive limitations of a Thomas/Fultz/Hayward lineup (Fultz has defensive potential, but it can take rookie guards a year or two to pick up defence). 

Having Butler in there instead of Hayward makes me feel a lot more comfortable defensively, and it also gives us more cap flexibility.  Since we are only taking back $3M in extra salary, we would essentially have $26M - $27M in cap space left over to re-sign Olynyk and go after a starting big (Ibaka? Noel?) to start alongside Horford.

I feel this is the best option for Boston.

Again..didn't you listen to what Wyc/Danny have said recently

there was uncertainty with the 2017 pick... but now its clear its #1....value of it absolute

without actually saying it...it sounds like at the trade deadline teams were not going to risk trading a Butler for a possible 4th pick for example.   Even if you add AB, Crowder...it doesn't help Bulls become a better team in the short term/long term

2018 draft pick presents the same uncertainty, but even worse as the Nets likely can't get any worse ...