CHI writer: C's won't deal pick now; Insisted on protection during Butler talks

[slamtheking]

I think the goal now has to be draft Fultz and then trade the 2018 pick and lesser pieces for an upgrade at SF or PF.

I'd offer Bradley, 2018 Nets, Rozier, and one or two other picks for Jimmy Butler.

I'd offer a bit less for George.

way too much for Butler. 

I'd hang on to that 2018 Nets pick unless I received a godfather offer.  Nets will suck again next year and with a draft heavier in big men than guards we could pick up our 3rd young player to form the talent base going forward--> Guard: Fultz.  Wing: Brown.  Big: 2018 pick.
Add them to Smart, AB, Zizic, Yabu (hopeful these 2 pan out to be solid rotation players), KO (maybe if we keep him) and Rozier.  we will hopefully be in the running for a title for years.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I think the goal now has to be draft Fultz and then trade the 2018 pick and lesser pieces for an upgrade at SF or PF.

I'd offer Bradley, 2018 Nets, Rozier, and one or two other picks for Jimmy Butler.

I'd offer a bit less for George.

I don't get why some people think Butler > George.  George is younger, better on D, bigger, better 3 point shooter, better LeBron defender, and can play PF which is our weakest position.  The playoffs basically bore this out, too.  George looked better against better competition (the Cavs) than Butler looked against us.  There isn't really anything that George doesn't beat Butler on.

He didn't say that Butler was better than George, he said that he would give up less for George than he would for Butler.  That's a completely different stance, and (most likely) takes the contract situations into consideration.  Trading for George would be a one year rental; trading for Butler wouldn't.

Ah that makes sense now.  TPs to you both

[No Nickname]

I think the goal now has to be draft Fultz and then trade the 2018 pick and lesser pieces for an upgrade at SF or PF.

I'd offer Bradley, 2018 Nets, Rozier, and one or two other picks for Jimmy Butler.

I'd offer a bit less for George.

You've touched on something.  As soon as the draft is complete next month the 2018 Nets pick becomes so much more valuable if only due to optics.  It still wouldn't give a team a player for another year, but it's not "two drafts away."  So it doesn't seem like it's such a far off asset for teams that want to win sooner rather than later.

Expect lots of rumors to include that pick to start popping up in a month.  And because the C's won good fortune with the #1 pick this year they may be more open to giving up that 2018 Nets pick because it feels like it would be impossible to get the #1 pick two years in a row.

[slamtheking]

I think the goal now has to be draft Fultz and then trade the 2018 pick and lesser pieces for an upgrade at SF or PF.

I'd offer Bradley, 2018 Nets, Rozier, and one or two other picks for Jimmy Butler.

I'd offer a bit less for George.

You've touched on something.  As soon as the draft is complete next month the 2018 Nets pick becomes so much more valuable if only due to optics.  It still wouldn't give a team a player for another year, but it's not "two drafts away."  So it doesn't seem like it's such a far off asset for teams that want to win sooner rather than later.

Expect lots of rumors to include that pick to start popping up in a month.  And because the C's won good fortune with the #1 pick this year they may be more open to giving up that 2018 Nets pick because it feels like it would be impossible to get the #1 pick two years in a row.

we don't need the #1 two years in a row.  that isn't the point.  the point is it still figures to be a very high pick and that draft is primarily bigs which would help fill a current hole in our roster going forward.  I figure that pick is likely top 8 and the top 8 prospects (as of now) are a lot of bigs.

[snively]

If we draft and keep Fultz, that's an elite ballhandler and scorer (ie the most important type of player in today's league) under control for up to nine years.

I think you can make a case that elite frontcourt players are still by far the most important type of players in the league - LBJ, Leonard, Draymond, Durant, with guys like Davis, Jokic, Gobert, and Towns (maybe even Porzingis and Embiid) among the most coveted and valuable assets in the league.

Westbrook and Harden put up the gaudiest stats, but the real power is still in the frontcourt.

[No Nickname]

I think the goal now has to be draft Fultz and then trade the 2018 pick and lesser pieces for an upgrade at SF or PF.

I'd offer Bradley, 2018 Nets, Rozier, and one or two other picks for Jimmy Butler.

I'd offer a bit less for George.

You've touched on something.  As soon as the draft is complete next month the 2018 Nets pick becomes so much more valuable if only due to optics.  It still wouldn't give a team a player for another year, but it's not "two drafts away."  So it doesn't seem like it's such a far off asset for teams that want to win sooner rather than later.

Expect lots of rumors to include that pick to start popping up in a month.  And because the C's won good fortune with the #1 pick this year they may be more open to giving up that 2018 Nets pick because it feels like it would be impossible to get the #1 pick two years in a row.

we don't need the #1 two years in a row.  that isn't the point.  the point is it still figures to be a very high pick and that draft is primarily bigs which would help fill a current hole in our roster going forward.  I figure that pick is likely top 8 and the top 8 prospects (as of now) are a lot of bigs.

Who said we "need" the #1 pick?  I didn't say that.  I was commenting on human nature and how we perceive the odds of something happening based on a feeling instead of based on mathematical probability.  Like if a roulette wheel hits black 20 times in a row people will start betting on red because they feel it's more likely to happen the next time.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Insisting on a protection on a certain deal doesn't necessarily mean that we don't have interest in dealing it. It simply means that for that particular deal, the player we were receiving (and for the package we were offering) this pick was more valuable to us if it landed within the protection.

So, it could also mean that the C's may have higher targets than Butler. Or if still interested in Butler, and the first pick is in play, the package would be diminished, etc.

[PhoSita]

If we draft and keep Fultz, that's an elite ballhandler and scorer (ie the most important type of player in today's league) under control for up to nine years.

I think you can make a case that elite frontcourt players are still by far the most important type of players in the league - LBJ, Leonard, Draymond, Durant, with guys like Davis, Jokic, Gobert, and Towns (maybe even Porzingis and Embiid) among the most coveted and valuable assets in the league.

Westbrook and Harden put up the gaudiest stats, but the real power is still in the frontcourt.

Having great big men doesn't help you that much if you don't have an elite creator who can handle the ball.

Some of the frontcourt guys you mentioned are so good because they can serve as a point forward.


Davis, Towns, Porzingis, Embiid, Gobert are all exciting and valuable players, but they won't get anywhere in the playoffs (if they even make the playoffs) unless they are playing alongside an elite creator.


I mean, look at who made the playoffs.  The only teams without an elite creator were the Hawks (with Schroder) and the Pacers (with Teague) ... those were easily the worst teams in the playoffs and they got nowhere.

[PhoSita]

I think the goal now has to be draft Fultz and then trade the 2018 pick and lesser pieces for an upgrade at SF or PF.

I'd offer Bradley, 2018 Nets, Rozier, and one or two other picks for Jimmy Butler.

I'd offer a bit less for George.

way too much for Butler. 

I'd hang on to that 2018 Nets pick unless I received a godfather offer.  Nets will suck again next year and with a draft heavier in big men than guards we could pick up our 3rd young player to form the talent base going forward--> Guard: Fultz.  Wing: Brown.  Big: 2018 pick.
Add them to Smart, AB, Zizic, Yabu (hopeful these 2 pan out to be solid rotation players), KO (maybe if we keep him) and Rozier.  we will hopefully be in the running for a title for years.

I'd be willing to trade that 2018 pick because (a) we don't know what the Nets might do between now and the trade deadline next year to become less horrible and (b) we can only develop so many young guys at once.


Smart, Brown, Fultz, Zizic, Yabu, Rozier, etc .... that's already quite a few young guys to develop.

I'd happily trade Bradley, Rozier, and 2018 BRK if it meant getting a guy like Butler or (maybe) Paul George.

That way, you'd have 3 bona fide stars now -- Thomas, Butler, Horford -- and multiple talented young guys on the come-up -- Smart, Brown, Fultz.

[PhoSita]

I think the goal now has to be draft Fultz and then trade the 2018 pick and lesser pieces for an upgrade at SF or PF.

I'd offer Bradley, 2018 Nets, Rozier, and one or two other picks for Jimmy Butler.

I'd offer a bit less for George.

I don't get why some people think Butler > George.  George is younger, better on D, bigger, better 3 point shooter, better LeBron defender, and can play PF which is our weakest position.  The playoffs basically bore this out, too.  George looked better against better competition (the Cavs) than Butler looked against us.  There isn't really anything that George doesn't beat Butler on.

George is a FA next summer, Butler has multiple years left on his deal.

Pretty simple.

[mctyson]

Honestly to deal a number one pick I'd need to get back a player like Jokic, Giannis, Davis, etc.

A no doubt top ten to fifteen player for a long time.

If we draft and keep Fultz, that's an elite ballhandler and scorer (ie the most important type of player in today's league) under control for up to nine years.

This cannot possibly be overstated enough.

[SparzWizard]

Hell no I am not gonna deal the #1 pick for Jimmy "Inconsistent" Butler or Paul "LakerLand" George.

Call me if Anthony Davis is on the table, otherwise, Markelle Fultz is the future for the Celtics.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I think the goal now has to be draft Fultz and then trade the 2018 pick and lesser pieces for an upgrade at SF or PF.

I'd offer Bradley, 2018 Nets, Rozier, and one or two other picks for Jimmy Butler.

I'd offer a bit less for George.

way too much for Butler. 

I'd hang on to that 2018 Nets pick unless I received a godfather offer.  Nets will suck again next year and with a draft heavier in big men than guards we could pick up our 3rd young player to form the talent base going forward--> Guard: Fultz.  Wing: Brown.  Big: 2018 pick.
Add them to Smart, AB, Zizic, Yabu (hopeful these 2 pan out to be solid rotation players), KO (maybe if we keep him) and Rozier.  we will hopefully be in the running for a title for years.

amen

[kozlodoev]

Honestly to deal a number one pick I'd need to get back a player like Jokic, Giannis, Davis, etc.

A no doubt top ten to fifteen player for a long time.

If we draft and keep Fultz, that's an elite ballhandler and scorer (ie the most important type of player in today's league) under control for up to nine years.

This cannot possibly be overstated enough.

Nah, this is largely immaterial. NBA is a league where you end up paying talent sooner rather than later.

Also, the claim for "up to nine years" is largely bogus. First, in the NBA, unhappy stars force their way out of town with regularity, and second, you can get a lot of players if you're willing to shell out a max deal at the end of their rookie contract.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Hell no I am not gonna deal the #1 pick for Jimmy "Inconsistent" Butler or Paul "LakerLand" George.

Call me if Anthony Davis is on the table, otherwise, Markelle Fultz is the future for the Celtics.

THANK YOU

END THREAD!