Getting a max Free Agent is now much more difficult

[KG Living Legend]

 Getting a Max free agent will be easier now.. we are a better team the guy might get slightly less than the max but he shouldn't care if he wants to win.

He will be extremely rich and win multiple championships on the Celtics. No brainer for Haywood.

[saltlover]

 Getting a Max free agent will be easier now.. we are a better team the guy might get slightly less than the max but he shouldn't care if he wants to win.

He will be extremely rich and win multiple championships on the Celtics. No brainer for Haywood.

Then he wouldn't be a max free agent, would he?

[bopna]

 Getting a Max free agent will be easier now.. we are a better team the guy might get slightly less than the max but he shouldn't care if he wants to win.

He will be extremely rich and win multiple championships on the Celtics. No brainer for Haywood.

Then he wouldn't be a max free agent, would he?

So what?. If say Hayward signs for just 25 m leaving 5 m off the table just to play for Brad then that is his decision to make isn't it?. Superstars in the past have done all the time never mind that GH is no superstar.
The pride of being a max player is overblown. Players always take pay cuts to their actual value all the time and no one was complaing...Jae didn't sign for his actual value and so did AB...so if Hayward says F it I want to play for a contender like Boston as Utah's path in the West is harder then who can blame him...in the end he is still a millionaire and lots of it for playing for a team and coach he will be happy with.

[obnoxiousmime]

The thing that is key here is we could technically re-sign all our own guys (minus whatever it takes to get Hayward) if the owners are willing to go above the cap, possibly into the luxury tax. The Cavaliers are already in that territory and the Warriors soon will be. It's the cost of doing business. You now need a superteam of at least 3 max guys to compete. That's always going to put a team past the cap, the Warriors were just lucky enough to have Curry on his original underpaid deal and a bunch of other dudes whose long-term deals are based on the OLD cap, not the new one.

Going over the cap really limits your options in building a bench, which makes our first rounders even more important to keep. Brown, Fultz, Yabusele, Zizic, and whoever the Celts draft next year will be on relatively cheap deals. Since you can go over the cap to sign your own first rounders, finding useful guys in the draft is important.

The players that will be hurt are basically Bradley and Smart, but it would have been tough to keep them anyway. Fultz is going to have to play minutes and it just doesn't make sense to keep that many guards, even if we could afford them. Smart is still young and as much as he likes winning, he also needs to get paid. I also think he'll want to go somewhere where he can be the lead guard because he's too young to just accept a future as a role player, which is what he'd always be here.

Bradley also needs to get paid, and unfortunately he's in that area where he's just good enough to be paid a lot but he's not good enough to be a max player. Perhaps there's a way to keep him around and rotate Fultz, Brown, Thomas, Hayward, and him at the 1-3 spots? It might be smart in the next few years to keep Thomas fresh since his little body can only take so much pounding.

That leaves Crowder. His deal is so cheap that they have to keep him around. Yes he would be supplanted by Hayward but playing some small 4 might keep him happy. Honestly, somebody who is starting now is going to have to hit the bench, it's just a freakin' fact of life. Thanks for all you did the last few years but we're ready to jump to the next level now, and if you can't take it tough noogies.

[colincb]

I will never turn down the first overall pick, but getting a max free agent (of the Hayward and Griffin vintage) just became much more difficult.

If we let all the free agents/non-guaranteed guys go, dump Jackson, and convince Yab to stay overseas another year, we're at $28.8 million cap space, $1.5 million short of a max.  Even also moving Rozier would not create enough room.

If we instead keep Olynyk and trade Bradley (along with everyone else described above), they're at $29.9 million cap room, still about $400k short.  Moving Rozier in addition would work, but if you want a max player, get ready for some sort of significant trade.

Not according to my math:

      Player   2017-2018
1   Bradley, Avery   $8,808,989
2   Brown, Jaylen   $4,956,480
3   Crowder, Jae   $6,796,117
4   Horford, Al         $27,734,405
5   Rozier, Terry   $1,988,520
6   Smart, Marcus   $4,538,020
7   Thomas, Isaiah   $6,261,395
8   Top Pick           $7,026,240
9   Max FA         $30,300,000
10   Zizic                   $1,645,200
11   Nader              $815,615
12   2nd rounder     $815,615
                   $101,686,596

Replace Rozier with a $816K player and you're under the cap. Assumes everything you do including keeping Yabu overseas (probably should), dumping Jackson with a pick, and dumping KO, TZ, and JM. You might well get decent pick value back for Rozier.

I think you forgot to get rid of one of the minimum players when you figured the max room available to sign your max FA as the twelveth player under the CBA.

[JBcat]

Well if it's between Kelly or Avery to create that very near cap space I'm more inclined to let Kelly walk, but it means Griffin is my FA target not Hayward.

Avery fills such an important unique role being able to guard other PGs while Thomas defends off the ball.  Smart and Rozier could fill that role but you lose offense.  Maybe Fultz could step in right away starting alongside Thomas if you want to take that risk starting a rookie verses a prime Bradley, but you risk your team not as good.

Then if we signed Hayward we would truly be a small ball team most of the time, with both him and Crowder as our starting forwards.  I'm not sure if that's wise.

For the makeup of our team Griffin makes the most sense with letting our FAs including Kelly go, while trading Jackson and/or Rozier if necessary for future picks. Maybe you could S&T Kelly as well for a future pick with his restricted status.

Sign vet min guys for front court help, and if needed trade from our surplus of picks during the season for more depth there.

[Roy H.]

This doesn't change that much. The smartest path always was to trade AB if we got Hayward.

And remember, that $400k gap is an estimate. It could increase with the actual cap numbers, or it could decrease.  If it remains and we have to lose Rozier, so be it.

Adding Fultz and Hayward while keeping KO would be a wildly successful off-season, even if we had to trade AB and Rozier. 

Horford / Zizic
KO
Crowder / Brown / Nader
Hayward / Smart
IT / Fultz

We'd also have the $4.3 million room exception to add a more rugged PF. The future picks we'd get in trade are just gravy.

[Rondo2287]

This doesn't change that much. The smartest path always was to trade AB if we got Hayward.

And remember, that $400k gap is an estimate. It could increase with the actual cap numbers, or it could decrease.  If it remains and we have to lose Rozier, so be it.

Adding Fultz and Hayward while keeping KO would be a wildly successful off-season, even if we had to trade AB and Rozier. 

Horford / Zizic
KO
Crowder / Brown / Nader
Hayward / Smart
IT / Fultz

We'd also have the $4.3 million room exception to add a more rugged PF. The future picks we'd get in trade are just gravy.

Roy, do you think a lineup like this wouldn't work?

It
Fultz
Hayward
KO
Horford

[BitterJim]

I will never turn down the first overall pick, but getting a max free agent (of the Hayward and Griffin vintage) just became much more difficult.

If we let all the free agents/non-guaranteed guys go, dump Jackson, and convince Yab to stay overseas another year, we're at $28.8 million cap space, $1.5 million short of a max.  Even also moving Rozier would not create enough room.

If we instead keep Olynyk and trade Bradley (along with everyone else described above), they're at $29.9 million cap room, still about $400k short.  Moving Rozier in addition would work, but if you want a max player, get ready for some sort of significant trade.

Not according to my math:

      Player   2017-2018
1   Bradley, Avery   $8,808,989
2   Brown, Jaylen   $4,956,480
3   Crowder, Jae   $6,796,117
4   Horford, Al         $27,734,405
5   Rozier, Terry   $1,988,520
6   Smart, Marcus   $4,538,020
7   Thomas, Isaiah   $6,261,395
8   Top Pick           $7,026,240
9   Max FA         $30,300,000
10   Zizic                   $1,645,200
11   Nader              $815,615
12   2nd rounder     $815,615
                   $101,686,596

Replace Rozier with a $816K player and you're under the cap. Assumes everything you do including keeping Yabu overseas (probably should), dumping Jackson with a pick, and dumping KO, TZ, and JM. You might well get decent pick value back for Rozier.

I think you forgot to get rid of one of the minimum players when you figured the max room available to sign your max FA as the twelveth player under the CBA.

13 player slots are filled per the new CBA, you need to add another league minimum contract

[Roy H.]

This doesn't change that much. The smartest path always was to trade AB if we got Hayward.

And remember, that $400k gap is an estimate. It could increase with the actual cap numbers, or it could decrease.  If it remains and we have to lose Rozier, so be it.

Adding Fultz and Hayward while keeping KO would be a wildly successful off-season, even if we had to trade AB and Rozier. 

Horford / Zizic
KO
Crowder / Brown / Nader
Hayward / Smart
IT / Fultz

We'd also have the $4.3 million room exception to add a more rugged PF. The future picks we'd get in trade are just gravy.

Roy, do you think a lineup like this wouldn't work?

It
Fultz
Hayward
KO
Horford

I expect it would, but bringing Fultz off the bench would ease him into the league, while also keeping Crowder from bristling too much initially.

[trickybilly]

Does 1.6 million really matter? Let alone 400K..

Surely getting that close to the max would be enough if a FA really wanted to join for whatever reason...

You'd think, but it rarely happens.  There's a point of pride at being called a max player.

Insane..

[Rondo2287]

This doesn't change that much. The smartest path always was to trade AB if we got Hayward.

And remember, that $400k gap is an estimate. It could increase with the actual cap numbers, or it could decrease.  If it remains and we have to lose Rozier, so be it.

Adding Fultz and Hayward while keeping KO would be a wildly successful off-season, even if we had to trade AB and Rozier. 

Horford / Zizic
KO
Crowder / Brown / Nader
Hayward / Smart
IT / Fultz

We'd also have the $4.3 million room exception to add a more rugged PF. The future picks we'd get in trade are just gravy.

Roy, do you think a lineup like this wouldn't work?

It
Fultz
Hayward
KO
Horford

I expect it would, but bringing Fultz off the bench would ease him into the league, while also keeping Crowder from bristling too much initially.

I think celts may be better off trading AB and Crowder for a big to play with horford, then using Brown as first guy off the bench being able to replace both Fultz and Hayward as needed

[obnoxiousmime]

Well if it's between Kelly or Avery to create that very near cap space I'm more inclined to let Kelly walk, but it means Griffin is my FA target not Hayward.

Avery fills such an important unique role being able to guard other PGs while Thomas defends off the ball.  Smart and Rozier could fill that role but you lose offense.  Maybe Fultz could step in right away starting alongside Thomas if you want to take that risk starting a rookie verses a prime Bradley, but you risk your team not as good.

Then if we signed Hayward we would truly be a small ball team most of the time, with both him and Crowder as our starting forwards.  I'm not sure if that's wise.

For the makeup of our team Griffin makes the most sense with letting our FAs including Kelly go, while trading Jackson and/or Rozier if necessary for future picks. Maybe you could S&T Kelly as well for a future pick with his restricted status.

Sign vet min guys for front court help, and if needed trade from our surplus of picks during the season for more depth there.

That's the issue we have. We don't really have a max player that is good, or good enough at everything on both sides of the court. That's why we're talking about how we have to keep Bradley to make up for Thomas' defensive issues and a PF that can help Horford rebound but also shoot 3s and playmake (if we're going to be paying him that much money obviously you hope he's not just a defender/rebounder). It doesn't help that we finally get a no. 1 overall pick and the best player is a guard, not a hybrid F.

There just isn't that player available. I don't trust Griffin's health and Millsap is too old. The only option is trading for Paul George, but the cost of that may be very high. In a way, the Celtics are penalized because they have this no. 1 pick which is very valuable, meaning the Pacers will automatically ask for it as a minimum to any deal. For me, any deal for George is contingent upon him agreeing to an extension a la Kevin Garnett.

My first choice is to still go after Hayward, who isn't perfect, but he won't cost anything but money. Yes, you still do end up with a flawed team but you get to keep Fultz who looks like a superstar. With three great shooters on the perimeter and two playmaking guards, you are free to get someone at PF who doesn't need to be as well-rounded.

Maybe it means we have to deal Bradley, but it would have been tough to keep him after next season anyway.

[JSD]

This doesn't change that much. The smartest path always was to trade AB if we got Hayward.

And remember, that $400k gap is an estimate. It could increase with the actual cap numbers, or it could decrease.  If it remains and we have to lose Rozier, so be it.

Adding Fultz and Hayward while keeping KO would be a wildly successful off-season, even if we had to trade AB and Rozier. 

Horford / Zizic
KO
Crowder / Brown / Nader
Hayward / Smart
IT / Fultz

We'd also have the $4.3 million room exception to add a more rugged PF. The future picks we'd get in trade are just gravy.

Roy, do you think a lineup like this wouldn't work?

It
Fultz
Hayward
KO
Horford

I expect it would, but bringing Fultz off the bench would ease him into the league, while also keeping Crowder from bristling too much initially.

I think celts may be better off trading AB and Crowder for a big to play with horford, then using Brown as first guy off the bench being able to replace both Fultz and Hayward as needed

Bismack? You'd think Orlando would be all over this deal.

[Rondo2287]

This doesn't change that much. The smartest path always was to trade AB if we got Hayward.

And remember, that $400k gap is an estimate. It could increase with the actual cap numbers, or it could decrease.  If it remains and we have to lose Rozier, so be it.

Adding Fultz and Hayward while keeping KO would be a wildly successful off-season, even if we had to trade AB and Rozier. 

Horford / Zizic
KO
Crowder / Brown / Nader
Hayward / Smart
IT / Fultz

We'd also have the $4.3 million room exception to add a more rugged PF. The future picks we'd get in trade are just gravy.

Roy, do you think a lineup like this wouldn't work?

It
Fultz
Hayward
KO
Horford

I expect it would, but bringing Fultz off the bench would ease him into the league, while also keeping Crowder from bristling too much initially.

I think celts may be better off trading AB and Crowder for a big to play with horford, then using Brown as first guy off the bench being able to replace both Fultz and Hayward as needed

Bismack? You'd think Orlando would be all over this deal.

Bismack was a name I thought of too