Getting a max Free Agent is now much more difficult

[obnoxiousmime]

What is this based on? The cap is estimated to be at 101 million. The Celtics, after releasing unguaranteed deals on Mickey, Johnson, and Jackson will have about 62 million in payroll. That's 39 million in space. Am I misunderstanding something?

[Ilikesports17]

What is this based on? The cap is estimated to be at 101 million. The Celtics, after releasing unguaranteed deals on Mickey, Johnson, and Jackson will have about 62 million in payroll. That's 39 million in space. Am I misunderstanding something?

Cap holds for the #1 pick (7 mil) as well as for Yabu and Zizic idk what else you are missing.

[trickybilly]

Does 1.6 million really matter? Let alone 400K..

Surely getting that close to the max would be enough if a FA really wanted to join for whatever reason...

[saltlover]

What is this based on? The cap is estimated to be at 101 million. The Celtics, after releasing unguaranteed deals on Mickey, Johnson, and Jackson will have about 62 million in payroll. That's 39 million in space. Am I misunderstanding something?

Yes.  You are missing:

1) Fultz (or whomever is picked) will have a $7 million cap hit.
2) Zizic has a $1.6 million cap hit.
3) Yab has a $2.3 million cap ht.
4) If you have under 13 players with cap holds, you have a minimum roster charge of $815k.  So in the universe where everyone is released/renounced (or traded, as Jackson needs to be) you have an extra $1.6 million in cap hits.

Add those together, and you quickly drop below the $30.3 million you need for a max player.

[crimson_stallion]

Does 1.6 million really matter? Let alone 400K..

Surely getting that close to the max would be enough if a FA really wanted to join for whatever reason...

Didn't our very own Al Horford leave the Hawks largely because he was offended that they offered him a "near max" deal rather than a full max?

Apparently they made the mistake of believing near enough is good enough.

[saltlover]

Does 1.6 million really matter? Let alone 400K..

Surely getting that close to the max would be enough if a FA really wanted to join for whatever reason...

You'd think, but it rarely happens.  There's a point of pride at being called a max player.

[Irish Stew]

I will never turn down the first overall pick, but getting a max free agent (of the Hayward and Griffin vintage) just became much more difficult.

If we let all the free agents/non-guaranteed guys go, dump Jackson, and convince Yab to stay overseas another year, we're at $28.8 million cap space, $1.5 million short of a max.  Even also moving Rozier would not create enough room.

If we instead keep Olynyk and trade Bradley (along with everyone else described above), they're at $29.9 million cap room, still about $400k short.  Moving Rozier in addition would work, but if you want a max player, get ready for some sort of significant trade.

My preferred minimum talent infusion is Fultz, Hayward, and Zizic.If renouncing all free agents/ non-guaranteed guys plus Rozier doesn't get us there, then I'm reluctantly willing to move Smart for a distant future 1st with the further hope that the other team might fall on hard times by then. I would say Bradley but I'd like to also combine him with Crowder and Brooklyn 2018 for Butler or George if he has a change of heart about LA and wants to play for what would be a contender to make the finals. Unless it's for someone like Anthony Davis, I wouldn't even consider moving the 2017 pick.

[KGs Knee]

I'm with CelticsElite.  If a FA wants to come here, it's presumably to join a winning team.  I can't imagine they'd force a winning team to gut its depth over $29 million v. $28 million per year.  I think they'd either take the minor pay cut or they are a player that doesn't want to come here for the right reasons and I'm ok passing on them and sticking to #TheProcess.

That's not how the nba works. Golden State didn't pitch that to Durant, they did what they needed to do to create the max slot.

I'm of the belief that players should earn whatever their max value is. We can't allow franchises to trade beloved players under the guise of "this is a business" then turn around and ask players to leave money on the table.

This sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty well.

You are not getting a max contract type player if you try to low ball them.  About the only time I can recall that happening was when Lebron and Bosh joined Wade in Miami.  But that was an exceptionally unique circumstance, and one where Lebron and Wade probably make more money outside of basketball anyway (LeBron absolutely does).

Look what happened with Horford.  He wanted to stay in Atlanta but when they low balled him initially, he said "screw it" and came to Boston.

[Ilikesports17]

Does 1.6 million really matter? Let alone 400K..

Surely getting that close to the max would be enough if a FA really wanted to join for whatever reason...

Didn't our very own Al Horford leave the Hawks largely because he was offended that they offered him a "near max" deal rather than a full max?

Apparently they made the mistake of believing near enough is good enough.

I think it's a tiny bit different because they could have offered him more. We could tell Hayward that this is the most we can offer under the salary cap.

Obviously that line isn't gonna talk a player into a 5 mil a year paycut but if you can wiggle your way to ~.5 mil under that max threshold and Hayward wants to be there I think it could work.

[mr. dee]

Bradley is a role player. You don't let a guy like him impede progress and keeping him and giving him a big deal does just that. If you add Fultz, give Brown more minutes, and sign Hayward, there's no room for AB.

As fans are going to see in the next week, our core is nowhere near good enough. Keeping all or most of our current roster isn't enough. Way too flawed. Keeping guys like KO and AB is suicide.

Some fans won't like it, but AB will likely have to go. Same with Olynyk. They simply aren't good enough. Drafting a guy like Fultz and trying to get a guy like Hayward are, in the long run, huge upgrades over what we have.

All-Star is nothing but a popularity medal. The pistons had no problem trading Grant Hill for a supposedly offensively inept Ben Wallace and trade their leading scorer Jerry Stackhouse for an unproven young guy in Rip Hamilton.

[saltlover]

Does 1.6 million really matter? Let alone 400K..

Surely getting that close to the max would be enough if a FA really wanted to join for whatever reason...

Didn't our very own Al Horford leave the Hawks largely because he was offended that they offered him a "near max" deal rather than a full max?

Apparently they made the mistake of believing near enough is good enough.

I think it's a tiny bit different because they could have offered him more. We could tell Hayward that this is the most we can offer under the salary cap.

Obviously that line isn't gonna talk a player into a 5 mil a year paycut but if you can wiggle your way to ~.5 mil under that max threshold and Hayward wants to be there I think it could work.

You can tell him that, but when Utah is able to already offer him larger raises (~$1 million more per year), it's probably best to not play from behind on the initial salary offer.

EDIT: Not to mention I fully expect Miami to try to woo him.

[KGs Knee]

If I had to trade a player to shed salary it would definitely be Smart.

Look, I like Smart.  He's hard working, feisty, and an All-NBA defender.  But he's likely never going to be more than a 6th man type.  You should never feel obligated to keep those type of players.

Which is why I am also fine with letting Olynyk walk if it comes to it.  It will really hurt us in the front court, and probably will cause fans to place too much expectation on Zizic, but we will still have Crowder/Bradley/Brown + Horford/Thomas/"Max FA" + "Fultz" at minimum.  That's a fantastic place to be and is way better than what we have right now.  You can always fill in the spots to round out the roster with a little diligence in scouting the D-League and foreign leagues properly.  Vets looking to chase a ring will come flocking.

[CelticsElite]

True I'm ready to move from smart for a future unprotected pick if possible.

[obnoxiousmime]

What is this based on? The cap is estimated to be at 101 million. The Celtics, after releasing unguaranteed deals on Mickey, Johnson, and Jackson will have about 62 million in payroll. That's 39 million in space. Am I misunderstanding something?

Cap holds for the #1 pick (7 mil) as well as for Yabu and Zizic idk what else you are missing.

Ah,  I see. Thanks.

I think trading Smart for nothing to a team with cap space might be in order. Rozier is on a cheap deal for the next two years and Smart will need to be re-signed the same year Thomas and Bradley are up. That's not looking good for Marcus. There definitely should be some teams that would take a flier on Marcus for a year since he's a former 6th overall pick.

As much as it would suck to lose what Smart brings to the table, you might be losing him anyway in a year. Rozier has shown he can be trusted to be the backup PG. It's just not feasible to have 5 guards on the roster, all of whom need playing time.

In a way, this was always going to happen. You only have so many spots and anybody who shows something is going to get a big FA offer you won't be able to afford. When we dealt for Isaiah this was inevitable. The rookie deal is always a four-year timetable for you to take your time and figure out what kind of player you have.

If Smart had improved his shot he could have taken the starting SG spot, but he didn't. We can't pay him $10-12 million just to be a defensive specialist (actually I have no idea what kind of offers Smart will get out there, I'm just guessing).

[aingeforthree]

Ainge always finds a way.

I feel like he's getting Fultz & Griffin or Hayward.

Setup like gold. 1st overall pick, Max free agent, 2 first round picks next year (Nets again + own). Competing now & later. Incredible