What if Fultz just became an excellent defender that can't shoot?

[slamtheking]

Let's remember....Ainge was the guy that woulda drafted Durant over Oden. Right?

So I expect him to find the best player in this draft no matter what.

Instead of these dumb veiled comments can you just write what your point is?

Smart isn't a bust. Busts don't play 30 mpg for 53 win teams.

Lets see him be the difference in the Celts not getting swept by the Cavs. I'm looking forward to it.

Again... what the hell does this mean?

It means he's a bust.

only you consider him a bust.

your statement means that you expect the #6 pick in that particular draft to be THE guy who should be able to stop the once-in-a-generation talent of Lebron James who's been the best player in the NBA for about a decade. 

I just don't understand the basis of this hatred for Smart and the unrealistic standard you've set with this comment.

[Eja117]

At what point do we get to declare players busts? Or do we just sorta have to love them unconditionally or something?

I get people saying the Smart hate is bad or this or that.

But the unconditional homeristic love is sorta bizarre too.

I say this is New England. Do your job. If you don't you're a bust. So it's legit to talk about.

Bust is used way too much and expectations are often too lofty.  Smart is a solid NBA role player and that isn't a bust.  Smart is basically who I expected him to be except he's better defensively.  So he's actually exceeded my expectations. 

As for Fultz, anyone expecting him to be a franchise player is likely to be disappointed.  I think he's got a reasonably good chance to be a star around the Irving level.  If he tops out as being a good starter but not a star, that would make the pick a disappointment but not a bust.

To me he's only a bust if he ends up being the 2nd best player in the draft.

If Fultz becomes Hakeem and Tatum becomes MJ.....then Fultz is a bust. A pretty good one, but still a bust.

People have to remember Ainge is supposedly the guy who woulda drafted Durant over Oden when nobody else would.  So Ainge has to get the best player out of this draft.

That's how the #1 pick works

So you'd rather have ended up with Kenyon Martin than Hakeem Olajuwon? Since yknow, technically Hakeem was a bust and Kenyon Martin wasn't.

Different drafts

[Eja117]

I'm not understanding the point of this entire thing. We just got the first pick in the college draft...to begin inventing negative theories is crazy.

Don't think of it as negativity.  Think of it as unapologetically* high expectations.

*Unrealistically

It's unrealistic to expect or want the best player in a draft with the top pick in the draft?

[Eja117]

I think it's possible that when I say "bust" some of you hear something like "worst player that ever lived".

I think of it more like "Not what I signed up for"

This is the top pick. I'm signing up for the best player in the draft and not less.

With Smart I didn't sign up for a defensive specialist that tries hard and flashes from time to time.

If that makes me some sort of fair weather fan or hater then so be it. My feelings aren't hurt.

[Ilikesports17]

I'm not understanding the point of this entire thing. We just got the first pick in the college draft...to begin inventing negative theories is crazy.

Don't think of it as negativity.  Think of it as unapologetically* high expectations.

*Unrealistically

It's unrealistic to expect or want the best player in a draft with the top pick in the draft?

No but you've established that he must be the clear cut #1 player in his class by year 3 or else he is a bust. Those are stupid expectations.

The expectation is that he's the best player in his class. However if you equate not exactly meeting expectations to being a bust than the NBA draft probably has a 70% bust rate and if your metric has a 70% bust rate then it's unrealistic in my opinion.

[Granath]

I think it's possible that when I say "bust" some of you hear something like "worst player that ever lived".

I think of it more like "Not what I signed up for"

This is the top pick. I'm signing up for the best player in the draft and not less.

With Smart I didn't sign up for a defensive specialist that tries hard and flashes from time to time.

If that makes me some sort of fair weather fan or hater then so be it. My feelings aren't hurt.

No, it makes you immature and illogical. You don't judge a bust by the performance of others.

If you think Hakeem Olajuwon is a bust because Michael Jordan was drafted after him then you have some growing up to do.

[Eja117]

I'm not understanding the point of this entire thing. We just got the first pick in the college draft...to begin inventing negative theories is crazy.

Don't think of it as negativity.  Think of it as unapologetically* high expectations.

*Unrealistically

It's unrealistic to expect or want the best player in a draft with the top pick in the draft?

No but you've established that he must be the clear cut #1 player in his class by year 3 or else he is a bust. Those are stupid expectations.

The expectation is that he's the best player in his class. However if you equate not exactly meeting expectations to being a bust than the NBA draft probably has a 70% bust rate and if your metric has a 70% bust rate then it's unrealistic in my opinion.

Oh I definitely think the draft probably has a high bust rate. That's why it's sometimes referred to as a crap shoot. That's why at some point teams were reaching for players with "Tremendous Upside Potential." 

I wouldn't say clear cut by year 3, but I'd say reasonably arguable by the time the rookie deal runs out.

[slamtheking]

At what point do we get to declare players busts? Or do we just sorta have to love them unconditionally or something?

I get people saying the Smart hate is bad or this or that.

But the unconditional homeristic love is sorta bizarre too.

I say this is New England. Do your job. If you don't you're a bust. So it's legit to talk about.

Bust is used way too much and expectations are often too lofty.  Smart is a solid NBA role player and that isn't a bust.  Smart is basically who I expected him to be except he's better defensively.  So he's actually exceeded my expectations. 

As for Fultz, anyone expecting him to be a franchise player is likely to be disappointed.  I think he's got a reasonably good chance to be a star around the Irving level.  If he tops out as being a good starter but not a star, that would make the pick a disappointment but not a bust.

To me he's only a bust if he ends up being the 2nd best player in the draft.

If Fultz becomes Hakeem and Tatum becomes MJ.....then Fultz is a bust. A pretty good one, but still a bust.

People have to remember Ainge is supposedly the guy who woulda drafted Durant over Oden when nobody else would.  So Ainge has to get the best player out of this draft.

That's how the #1 pick works

This is the ultimate flaw in your thinking/logic concerning the draft.

based on this, every single pick would be properly evaluated pre-draft such that every player picked would have a better career than everyone picked after them, not to mention everyone that goes undrafted. 

sure, that happens every draft and is just so reasonable an expectation   

just for context, let's take the 2011 draft when IT was drafted.  Based on IT's play since joining the C's, it's reasonable to state he's once of the best players of that draft class  as number 60 in that draft, by your logic, the 59 players taken ahead of him should be even better.  do you really believe that should hold true?
others in that draft: Kyrie, Kawhi, Kanter, Tristan Thompson, Kemba, Klay, the Morris twins, Vucevic, Shumpert, Tobias Harris, Faried, Cory Joseph, Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, Mirotic, Brandon Knight, Bogdanovic, Shelvin Mack, Jon Leuer, Lavoy Allen, Biyombo, Norris Cole --> all players who are either still in the league or had some run in the league for a few years.  some of these players are all-stars.  does the fact IT is who he is and taken at 60 mean these guys are all busts?  I don't think so and I don't think you could make an argument that they are.

sure, some other players in the draft were busts.  happens every draft.  some have more skills than others selected ahead of them but it doesn't make those other players busts.  your expectations are not realistic. 

[Ilikesports17]

At what point do we get to declare players busts? Or do we just sorta have to love them unconditionally or something?

I get people saying the Smart hate is bad or this or that.

But the unconditional homeristic love is sorta bizarre too.

I say this is New England. Do your job. If you don't you're a bust. So it's legit to talk about.

Bust is used way too much and expectations are often too lofty.  Smart is a solid NBA role player and that isn't a bust.  Smart is basically who I expected him to be except he's better defensively.  So he's actually exceeded my expectations. 

As for Fultz, anyone expecting him to be a franchise player is likely to be disappointed.  I think he's got a reasonably good chance to be a star around the Irving level.  If he tops out as being a good starter but not a star, that would make the pick a disappointment but not a bust.

To me he's only a bust if he ends up being the 2nd best player in the draft.

If Fultz becomes Hakeem and Tatum becomes MJ.....then Fultz is a bust. A pretty good one, but still a bust.

People have to remember Ainge is supposedly the guy who woulda drafted Durant over Oden when nobody else would.  So Ainge has to get the best player out of this draft.

That's how the #1 pick works

This is the ultimate flaw in your thinking/logic concerning the draft.

based on this, every single pick would be properly evaluated pre-draft such that every player picked would have a better career than everyone picked after them, not to mention everyone that goes undrafted. 

sure, that happens every draft and is just so reasonable an expectation   

just for context, let's take the 2011 draft when IT was drafted.  Based on IT's play since joining the C's, it's reasonable to state he's once of the best players of that draft class  as number 60 in that draft, by your logic, the 59 players taken ahead of him should be even better.  do you really believe that should hold true?
others in that draft: Kyrie, Kawhi, Kanter, Tristan Thompson, Kemba, Klay, the Morris twins, Vucevic, Shumpert, Tobias Harris, Faried, Cory Joseph, Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, Mitotic, Brandon Knight, Bogdanovic, Shelvin Mack, Jon Leuer, Lavoy Allen, Biyombo, Norris Cole --> all players who are either still in the league or had some run in the league for a few years.  some of these players are all-stars.  does the fact IT is who he is and taken at 60 mean these guys are all busts?  I don't think so and I don't think you could make an argument that they are.

sure, some other players in the draft were busts.  happens every draft.  some have more skills than others selected ahead of them but it doesn't make those other players busts.  your expectations are not realistic.

Wow, that draft has like 56 busts

[LilRip]

At what point do we get to declare players busts? Or do we just sorta have to love them unconditionally or something?

I get people saying the Smart hate is bad or this or that.

But the unconditional homeristic love is sorta bizarre too.

I say this is New England. Do your job. If you don't you're a bust. So it's legit to talk about.

Bust is used way too much and expectations are often too lofty.  Smart is a solid NBA role player and that isn't a bust.  Smart is basically who I expected him to be except he's better defensively.  So he's actually exceeded my expectations. 

As for Fultz, anyone expecting him to be a franchise player is likely to be disappointed.  I think he's got a reasonably good chance to be a star around the Irving level.  If he tops out as being a good starter but not a star, that would make the pick a disappointment but not a bust.

To me he's only a bust if he ends up being the 2nd best player in the draft.

If Fultz becomes Hakeem and Tatum becomes MJ.....then Fultz is a bust. A pretty good one, but still a bust.

People have to remember Ainge is supposedly the guy who woulda drafted Durant over Oden when nobody else would.  So Ainge has to get the best player out of this draft.

That's how the #1 pick works

So you'd rather have ended up with Kenyon Martin than Hakeem Olajuwon? Since yknow, technically Hakeem was a bust and Kenyon Martin wasn't.

Different drafts

And yet, one player was the best player in his draft class and deservedly the #1 pick. The other player was picked #1, had Jordan in his draft class, and ended up, by your definition, being a bust.

Unless of course, you're saying it's better to draft a bust than a deserving #1 pick??

[Ilikesports17]

I'm not understanding the point of this entire thing. We just got the first pick in the college draft...to begin inventing negative theories is crazy.

Don't think of it as negativity.  Think of it as unapologetically* high expectations.

*Unrealistically

It's unrealistic to expect or want the best player in a draft with the top pick in the draft?

No but you've established that he must be the clear cut #1 player in his class by year 3 or else he is a bust. Those are stupid expectations.

The expectation is that he's the best player in his class. However if you equate not exactly meeting expectations to being a bust than the NBA draft probably has a 70% bust rate and if your metric has a 70% bust rate then it's unrealistic in my opinion.

Oh I definitely think the draft probably has a high bust rate. That's why it's sometimes referred to as a crap shoot. That's why at some point teams were reaching for players with "Tremendous Upside Potential." 

I wouldn't say clear cut by year 3, but I'd say reasonably arguable by the time the rookie deal runs out.

But it's reasonably arguable that Marcus was BPA and you've made like 18 threads declaring him a bust?

[Ilikesports17]

At what point do we get to declare players busts? Or do we just sorta have to love them unconditionally or something?

I get people saying the Smart hate is bad or this or that.

But the unconditional homeristic love is sorta bizarre too.

I say this is New England. Do your job. If you don't you're a bust. So it's legit to talk about.

Bust is used way too much and expectations are often too lofty.  Smart is a solid NBA role player and that isn't a bust.  Smart is basically who I expected him to be except he's better defensively.  So he's actually exceeded my expectations. 

As for Fultz, anyone expecting him to be a franchise player is likely to be disappointed.  I think he's got a reasonably good chance to be a star around the Irving level.  If he tops out as being a good starter but not a star, that would make the pick a disappointment but not a bust.

To me he's only a bust if he ends up being the 2nd best player in the draft.

If Fultz becomes Hakeem and Tatum becomes MJ.....then Fultz is a bust. A pretty good one, but still a bust.

People have to remember Ainge is supposedly the guy who woulda drafted Durant over Oden when nobody else would.  So Ainge has to get the best player out of this draft.

That's how the #1 pick works

So you'd rather have ended up with Kenyon Martin than Hakeem Olajuwon? Since yknow, technically Hakeem was a bust and Kenyon Martin wasn't.

Different drafts

And yet, one player was the best player in his draft class and deservedly the #1 pick. The other player was picked #1, had Jordan in his draft class, and ended up, by your definition, being a bust.

Unless of course, you're saying it's better to draft a bust than a deserving #1 pick??

This comment is dumb.

[Eja117]

I think it's possible that when I say "bust" some of you hear something like "worst player that ever lived".

I think of it more like "Not what I signed up for"

This is the top pick. I'm signing up for the best player in the draft and not less.

With Smart I didn't sign up for a defensive specialist that tries hard and flashes from time to time.

If that makes me some sort of fair weather fan or hater then so be it. My feelings aren't hurt.

No, it makes you immature and illogical. You don't judge a bust by the performance of others.

If you think Hakeem Olajuwon is a bust because Michael Jordan was drafted after him then you have some growing up to do.

Besides the fact there are some mitigating issues there, like the fact that Houston loves Hakeem because of his college days,  there is just no way on Earth any good GM in his right mind who picked Hakeem over Jordan is like "Oh man! I made such a great pick when I picked Hakeem!"  No. Way.

Maybe you think the Jets are real proud of themselves for taking Chad Pennington over Tom Brady. I mean Pennington was pretty good.

Or maybe Sam Bowie's not a bust because he made the all rookie team.

I get that people are saying I'm being unrealistic or spoiled or overly negative. I get people saying I have an extreme interpretation of bust. But let's not be extreme the other way where all a guy has to do is show up and try hard and make some plays regardless of who was drafted after them in order to not be a bust.

[Eja117]

At what point do we get to declare players busts? Or do we just sorta have to love them unconditionally or something?

I get people saying the Smart hate is bad or this or that.

But the unconditional homeristic love is sorta bizarre too.

I say this is New England. Do your job. If you don't you're a bust. So it's legit to talk about.

Bust is used way too much and expectations are often too lofty.  Smart is a solid NBA role player and that isn't a bust.  Smart is basically who I expected him to be except he's better defensively.  So he's actually exceeded my expectations. 

As for Fultz, anyone expecting him to be a franchise player is likely to be disappointed.  I think he's got a reasonably good chance to be a star around the Irving level.  If he tops out as being a good starter but not a star, that would make the pick a disappointment but not a bust.

To me he's only a bust if he ends up being the 2nd best player in the draft.

If Fultz becomes Hakeem and Tatum becomes MJ.....then Fultz is a bust. A pretty good one, but still a bust.

People have to remember Ainge is supposedly the guy who woulda drafted Durant over Oden when nobody else would.  So Ainge has to get the best player out of this draft.

That's how the #1 pick works

So you'd rather have ended up with Kenyon Martin than Hakeem Olajuwon? Since yknow, technically Hakeem was a bust and Kenyon Martin wasn't.

Different drafts

And yet, one player was the best player in his draft class and deservedly the #1 pick. The other player was picked #1, had Jordan in his draft class, and ended up, by your definition, being a bust.

Unless of course, you're saying it's better to draft a bust than a deserving #1 pick??

Depending on the draft class? Definitely. You can definitely be like "We screwed up that draft" while also being thankful it wasn't a horrible draft.

[LilRip]

At what point do we get to declare players busts? Or do we just sorta have to love them unconditionally or something?

I get people saying the Smart hate is bad or this or that.

But the unconditional homeristic love is sorta bizarre too.

I say this is New England. Do your job. If you don't you're a bust. So it's legit to talk about.

Bust is used way too much and expectations are often too lofty.  Smart is a solid NBA role player and that isn't a bust.  Smart is basically who I expected him to be except he's better defensively.  So he's actually exceeded my expectations. 

As for Fultz, anyone expecting him to be a franchise player is likely to be disappointed.  I think he's got a reasonably good chance to be a star around the Irving level.  If he tops out as being a good starter but not a star, that would make the pick a disappointment but not a bust.

To me he's only a bust if he ends up being the 2nd best player in the draft.

If Fultz becomes Hakeem and Tatum becomes MJ.....then Fultz is a bust. A pretty good one, but still a bust.

People have to remember Ainge is supposedly the guy who woulda drafted Durant over Oden when nobody else would.  So Ainge has to get the best player out of this draft.

That's how the #1 pick works

This is the ultimate flaw in your thinking/logic concerning the draft.

based on this, every single pick would be properly evaluated pre-draft such that every player picked would have a better career than everyone picked after them, not to mention everyone that goes undrafted. 

sure, that happens every draft and is just so reasonable an expectation   

just for context, let's take the 2011 draft when IT was drafted.  Based on IT's play since joining the C's, it's reasonable to state he's once of the best players of that draft class  as number 60 in that draft, by your logic, the 59 players taken ahead of him should be even better.  do you really believe that should hold true?
others in that draft: Kyrie, Kawhi, Kanter, Tristan Thompson, Kemba, Klay, the Morris twins, Vucevic, Shumpert, Tobias Harris, Faried, Cory Joseph, Jimmy Butler, Chandler Parsons, Mitotic, Brandon Knight, Bogdanovic, Shelvin Mack, Jon Leuer, Lavoy Allen, Biyombo, Norris Cole --> all players who are either still in the league or had some run in the league for a few years.  some of these players are all-stars.  does the fact IT is who he is and taken at 60 mean these guys are all busts?  I don't think so and I don't think you could make an argument that they are.

sure, some other players in the draft were busts.  happens every draft.  some have more skills than others selected ahead of them but it doesn't make those other players busts.  your expectations are not realistic.

It only means Kyrie and Klay are both busts since Kawhi is the best in that draft class. I have no idea what GSW and Cleveland are thinking giving both those busts heavy minutes.