Author Topic: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?  (Read 8260 times)

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Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2017, 12:23:44 PM »

Offline Chris22

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We don't need Hayward.
We need a big.

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2017, 12:29:00 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Watched part of the Jazz-Warriors series. Wasn't all that impressed with Hayward. Don't understand the incessant bromance on acquiring him on CB. He's a good player, but didn't make that much difference in their last series. Probably wouldn't do much more for the Celtics. 

His stats for that series:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2017-nba-western-conference-semifinals-jazz-vs-warriors.html

What players can you say would make a big impact in closing the gap between us and Golden State?

Lebron. Kawhi. Is that it?


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Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2017, 12:29:03 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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I would think a lot of players like Haywood are going to start thinking about switching teams at this point in their careers.  Rather than grabbing all the money they can and anchoring yourself to a sucky franchise, sign with a better team and "build your brand." 

Mike
The Jazz aren't a sucky franchise at all.  They also have a defensive player of the year candidate in Gobert, an up coming SG in Hood, and some quality young depth like Mack, Exum, Lyles, etc. and then you add in some crafty vets like Hill (also a free agent), Johnson, Diaw, Ingles, and Favors (who is still pretty young in his own right).  You could almost argue Utah is in a better position than Boston going forward, given the age of Gobert and Hood as compared to Thomas and Horford (Thomas and Horford are better right now no question, but for how much longer, Gobert has continually made jumps every year as has Hood).  Now obviously what sets Boston apart a bit is the draft pick this year and presumably the high one next year as well (though you never know what the Nets will do this summer), but whomever Boston picks may never be as good as Gobert, Hood, etc.  Couple that with Utah being able to offer a lot more money and that being where Hayward has spent his entire career and there are plenty of reasons for someone like Hayward to decide to stay put.

I wouldn't say Utah sucks but four of their core rotation players this season were 29, 30, 34 and 35 years old.  Favors and Exum look like they'll never be what people expected and Rodney Hood is about a year and a half older than Smart.  And if they resign Hill, they'll be blowing just about all their cap room to hold onto a 30-year-old, above average point guard.  Given that max deal guys are almost untradeable, is that what you want to tie yourself to for the next 5 or 6 years?

My point is more that the NBA has made trading or signing free agents so difficult that top line players will almost be forced into taking a more proactive stance if they don't want to spend the bulk of their careers like KG, on teams that have no chance at all to really compete.

Mike

I more or less agree. The idea that Utah is a rising team with the potential to become a contender in the next few years is kind of a myth. When I looked at their roster/contracts recently I was surprised by how mediocre their situation is.

A lot of it is driven by the fact that they have Gobert, but as I mentioned before centers are becoming less valuable in the smallball era. Now that his extension kicks in, he will be making 21-25 million a year.

Utah also has a lot of veterans that are either very old or not improving, like Joe Johnson, Derrick Favors, Alec Burks, Boris Diaw, and George Hill.

This summer it will be very difficult and costly to keep Hill and Ingles if Hayward re-signs. So there's also that issue - Is the current team enough to beat the Warriors in the next few years? If the answer is no (it's no) then will the Utah ownership be willing to pay big bucks to keep them? It's very possible Utah will have to take a minor step back next season and that's not going to make Hayward very happy.






Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2017, 12:33:35 PM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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So the thread title is completely misleading.

How is it misleading. Lots of posts comparing Boston's roster to Utah's. Which would Gordon be best off choosing?

My feeling is he would want to stay in the mid-west. His wife had a baby last summer and he's from Indiana. Why would he want to transplant his family to Boston for similar or less pay?

Also, the Celtics have Yabusele coming on board next year. If he can play a lick of defense, then he might offer Hayward-like outside shooting. 


Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2017, 12:39:11 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Because the most sensible interpretation of the title is that he would be more hesitant to come to the Celtics given what he is seeing.  But the OP is stating the opposite.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 12:57:23 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2017, 12:42:00 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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So the thread title is completely misleading.

How is it misleading. Lots of posts comparing Boston's roster to Utah's. Which would Gordon be best off choosing?

My feeling is he would want to stay in the mid-west. His wife had a baby last summer and he's from Indiana. Why would he want to transplant his family to Boston for similar or less pay?

Also, the Celtics have Yabusele coming on board next year. If he can play a lick of defense, then he might offer Hayward-like outside shooting.
I took think twice as in:

"I was probably gonna go to Boston, but after last night, Im having second thoughts"

A more appropriate title might have been "Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about staying in Utah?"

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2017, 12:42:34 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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So the thread title is completely misleading.

How is it misleading. Lots of posts comparing Boston's roster to Utah's. Which would Gordon be best off choosing?

My feeling is he would want to stay in the mid-west. His wife had a baby last summer and he's from Indiana. Why would he want to transplant his family to Boston for similar or less pay?

Also, the Celtics have Yabusele coming on board next year. If he can play a lick of defense, then he might offer Hayward-like outside shooting.
Yabusele just spent a season in China and is 19 years old. Don't think you can expect him to offer anything next year. It's likely hes not even on the roster.

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2017, 12:43:30 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Watched part of the Jazz-Warriors series. Wasn't all that impressed with Hayward. Don't understand the incessant bromance on acquiring him on CB. He's a good player, but didn't make that much difference in their last series. Probably wouldn't do much more for the Celtics. 

His stats for that series:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2017-nba-western-conference-semifinals-jazz-vs-warriors.html

What players can you say would make a big impact in closing the gap between us and Golden State?

Lebron. Kawhi. Is that it?
1 player that would make the gap up himself?

Davis, Cousins, Lebron, Kawhi.

Those are the 4 that Id say could feasibly close the gap. In 2 years, I bet Giannis joins that group.

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2017, 01:18:51 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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Watched part of the Jazz-Warriors series. Wasn't all that impressed with Hayward. Don't understand the incessant bromance on acquiring him on CB. He's a good player, but didn't make that much difference in their last series. Probably wouldn't do much more for the Celtics. 

His stats for that series:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2017-nba-western-conference-semifinals-jazz-vs-warriors.html

Hayward is a legit 20 point per game scorer.  He has averaged 20+ for the past two seasons and I think he was like 18 or 19 before that.  When we are constantly asking who else can step up and take the scoring pressure off of IT because we have absolutely no one else who can carry the load offensively game in and game out.  I see his stats, he averaged over 20 points just like he did all year and all last year. 

He is really everything we want in a small forward.
- At 6'8 he has size, Crowder is only 6'6
- He stuffs the stat sheet across the board.  He's no triple double threat, but he gets rebounds, assists, seals, and blocks.
-He shoos over 40% from 3.
He knows the CBS system and was extremely successful playing in the system.

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2017, 01:31:03 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Watched part of the Jazz-Warriors series. Wasn't all that impressed with Hayward. Don't understand the incessant bromance on acquiring him on CB. He's a good player, but didn't make that much difference in their last series. Probably wouldn't do much more for the Celtics. 

His stats for that series:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2017-nba-western-conference-semifinals-jazz-vs-warriors.html

What players can you say would make a big impact in closing the gap between us and Golden State?

Lebron. Kawhi. Is that it?

Blake Griffin.  20 pts, 8+ boards and 4+ assists a game on 49% from the field and has shot 33% or better from three the last three seasons.  And that's playing with the ultimate anti-spacing center in DeAndre Jordan for his entire career.

Mike

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2017, 01:57:20 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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Of course Hayward alone does not get us past GS. It only makes us a little more competitive against Cleveland, but a talent infusion of Hayward, George/Butler, and even Zizic makes us a team neither would relish playing. It can be done if Ainge chooses to be short-term aggressive which would be my preferred path. In spite of last night, guys like Olynyk will not determine whether we become a true championship contender in future seasons. Historically, you win with stars.

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2017, 03:47:34 PM »

Offline Rakulp

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Because the most sensible interpretation of the title is that he would be more hesitant to come to the Celtics given what he is seeing.  But the OP is stating the opposite.

That would be the most sensible interpretation to you perhaps, but it was the exact opposite of what was intended.  Sorry for the confusion.

The prevailing thought is that Hayward is "likely" going to stay in Utah, for both financial reasons and perhaps because signing him in Boston would require a multitude of cap gymnastics to make it happen.

However, the reason for the post was to wonder if the success that Boston has had up to this point, the grit and team spirit it has taken to get to this point, especially in light of IT's tragedy, does he look beyond his own financial future and possibly consider an offer from the Celtics?  Does he see enough in this team to believe he would have a great role in helping them move even further in the future?

Hope that clarifies things.

Rak

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2017, 04:10:43 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Watched part of the Jazz-Warriors series. Wasn't all that impressed with Hayward. Don't understand the incessant bromance on acquiring him on CB. He's a good player, but didn't make that much difference in their last series. Probably wouldn't do much more for the Celtics. 

His stats for that series:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2017-nba-western-conference-semifinals-jazz-vs-warriors.html

What players can you say would make a big impact in closing the gap between us and Golden State?

Lebron. Kawhi. Is that it?
1 player that would make the gap up himself?

Davis, Cousins, Lebron, Kawhi.

Those are the 4 that Id say could feasibly close the gap. In 2 years, I bet Giannis joins that group.

I like your list.
Had we added Cousins and only given up the 2017 pic and Amir, I think we would be crushing teams in playoff basketball.


Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2017, 04:13:05 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Watched part of the Jazz-Warriors series. Wasn't all that impressed with Hayward. Don't understand the incessant bromance on acquiring him on CB. He's a good player, but didn't make that much difference in their last series. Probably wouldn't do much more for the Celtics. 

His stats for that series:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2017-nba-western-conference-semifinals-jazz-vs-warriors.html

What players can you say would make a big impact in closing the gap between us and Golden State?

Lebron. Kawhi. Is that it?
1 player that would make the gap up himself?

Davis, Cousins, Lebron, Kawhi.

Those are the 4 that Id say could feasibly close the gap. In 2 years, I bet Giannis joins that group.

I like your list.
Had we added Cousins and only given up the 2017 pic and Amir, I think we would be crushing teams in playoff basketball.
Except that wasn't the cost of Cousins. And quite frankly, I really don't understand the Cousins love. How do you know for a fact that he would have fit in here? It was pretty evident that Ainge/Steven's did not want him.

Re: Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2017, 04:14:28 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We have scoring problems and he would help with those.   He would fit right in with CBS.    I still think he will take the money in the end and stay in Utah.   I think if anything us making to the ECF might make him more likely to consider us rather than having to go through GS every year after year.