Does Gordon Hayward think twice now about coming to the Celtics?

[Moranis]

I would think a lot of players like Haywood are going to start thinking about switching teams at this point in their careers.  Rather than grabbing all the money they can and anchoring yourself to a sucky franchise, sign with a better team and "build your brand." 

Mike

The Jazz aren't a sucky franchise at all.  They also have a defensive player of the year candidate in Gobert, an up coming SG in Hood, and some quality young depth like Mack, Exum, Lyles, etc. and then you add in some crafty vets like Hill (also a free agent), Johnson, Diaw, Ingles, and Favors (who is still pretty young in his own right).  You could almost argue Utah is in a better position than Boston going forward, given the age of Gobert and Hood as compared to Thomas and Horford (Thomas and Horford are better right now no question, but for how much longer, Gobert has continually made jumps every year as has Hood).  Now obviously what sets Boston apart a bit is the draft pick this year and presumably the high one next year as well (though you never know what the Nets will do this summer), but whomever Boston picks may never be as good as Gobert, Hood, etc.  Couple that with Utah being able to offer a lot more money and that being where Hayward has spent his entire career and there are plenty of reasons for someone like Hayward to decide to stay put.

[green_bballers13]

Utah has a bunch of nice pieces, but none (including Hayward) that will get them to the next level. They got swept by GS. They would need to add one or two stars to get out of the West.

If I were Hayward, I would jump to play with IT and Horford. Snyder is a good coach- I think Brad is better.

[Smokeeye123]

As I've said numerous times now, I'm pretty sure we will not have the cap space to sign Hayward unless we renounce a good number of our current players, including Olynyk (who's played well all playoffs long, and is a major reason why we are in the ECF).

I dont think the salary cap is official for next year yet, just a projection. But last I read we'd have to get rid of Rozier/Olynyk/Amir/ and convince Yabusele to stay overseas. if we wanted to give Hayward a full max. Honestly if we are 2 mil off a max contract I still see him picking us over Utah. He'd make like 3x that much in new endorsements alone.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Utah has a bunch of nice pieces, but none (including Hayward) that will get them to the next level. They got swept by GS. They would need to add one or two stars to get out of the West.

If I were Hayward, I would jump to play with IT and Horford. Snyder is a good coach- I think Brad is better.

I feel bad for Utah because even though the Jazz seem like a solid, respectable, well-run franchise with a loyal fanbase, and right now they have some good young players, I don't think they'll ever get a marquee free agent, so even if they draft well (as they have in recent years), they're not going too far.

But if that means Hayward signing with Boston, I'll take it.

[obnoxiousmime]

As I've said numerous times now, I'm pretty sure we will not have the cap space to sign Hayward unless we renounce a good number of our current players, including Olynyk (who's played well all playoffs long, and is a major reason why we are in the ECF).

Yes, we'd mostly likely lose Johnson and Olynyk, possibly Jerebko. I don't think anyone is unaware of that fact.

You could easily make the argument the addition of Hayward and subtraction of Olynyk would have made the Bulls and Wizards series easier to win.

Also, Olynyk is going cost a lot more next year. You have to compare Hayward on a max deal to whatever Olynyk is going to make and judge it that way. Who brings more value per dollar? Hayward is going to play 30+ minutes a game. Olynyk only plays 20. Can you trust him to play more? How good would such a team be?

I like Olynyk, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

[oldtype]

Utah is probably better than us right now, but their path towards getting better is unclear.  They have no cap space forever, and nobody on their roster looks set for rapid improvement unless somebody like Exum unexpectedly breaks out. 

More than Utah and more than any other team that will be courting Hayward, the Celtics are the only option in the entire league that gives him a legit shot at championship contention.  That's exactly how the organization will be pitching to him.

[D Dub]

As I've said numerous times now, I'm pretty sure we will not have the cap space to sign Hayward unless we renounce a good number of our current players, including Olynyk (who's played well all playoffs long, and is a major reason why we are in the ECF).

I dont think the salary cap is official for next year yet, just a projection. But last I read we'd have to get rid of Rozier/Olynyk/Amir/ and convince Yabusele to stay overseas. if we wanted to give Hayward a full max. Honestly if we are 2 mil off a max contract I still see him picking us over Utah. He'd make like 3x that much in new endorsements alone.

Couldn't they do something like, sign Hayward before Kelly; then go over the cap with a bird's rights deal for KO?

Seems like if we have to renounce so many players, signing a FA strips more assets than a trade would..

[Smokeeye123]

As I've said numerous times now, I'm pretty sure we will not have the cap space to sign Hayward unless we renounce a good number of our current players, including Olynyk (who's played well all playoffs long, and is a major reason why we are in the ECF).

I dont think the salary cap is official for next year yet, just a projection. But last I read we'd have to get rid of Rozier/Olynyk/Amir/ and convince Yabusele to stay overseas. if we wanted to give Hayward a full max. Honestly if we are 2 mil off a max contract I still see him picking us over Utah. He'd make like 3x that much in new endorsements alone.

Couldn't they do something like, sign Hayward before Kelly; then go over the cap with a bird's rights deal for KO?

Seems like if we have to renounce so many players, signing a FA strips more assets than a trade would..

That I'm not sure of but I still think Olynyk unfortunately walks. Didn't Evan Turner make like 15m per year last year? I just think Ainge looks at some of his other guys coming up next year for new contracts like Smart and IT as more important to sign.

[obnoxiousmime]

Crimson, if I were going to make the point that Hayward signing would make it really difficult to re-sign our own players, I wouldn't mention Olynyk first. I think that the biggest implication would be the cost of signing Bradley a year from now. Sure, they can go over the cap to sign their own guys but it's hard to see Thomas and Bradley taking discounts when they already would have been underpaid starting from at least last season.

But of course, that's just money. It will be interesting to see what will happen if they get a Fultz who may be ready (and will want to) play big minutes at the 1 and 2 sooner rather than later. If he is a budding star the Celtics won't be able to just make him a sixth man for four years. It's possible at some point Bradley will be displaced, in which case Ray Allen will be laughing from his mansion somewhere.

[PAOBoston]

As I've said numerous times now, I'm pretty sure we will not have the cap space to sign Hayward unless we renounce a good number of our current players, including Olynyk (who's played well all playoffs long, and is a major reason why we are in the ECF).

I dont think the salary cap is official for next year yet, just a projection. But last I read we'd have to get rid of Rozier/Olynyk/Amir/ and convince Yabusele to stay overseas. if we wanted to give Hayward a full max. Honestly if we are 2 mil off a max contract I still see him picking us over Utah. He'd make like 3x that much in new endorsements alone.

Couldn't they do something like, sign Hayward before Kelly; then go over the cap with a bird's rights deal for KO?

Seems like if we have to renounce so many players, signing a FA strips more assets than a trade would..

They would have to renounce Olynyk to offer Hayward a contract. Ask yourself this: Would you pay Olynyk 15 million plus to play 20-25 mins a night?

[SHAQATTACK]

it does not have mean we have to sign to KO , but if he plays with authority like G7 we need him or another skilled big , less we regress back to. 40 win team.

he is loyal big you g big . 

[BitterJim]

As I've said numerous times now, I'm pretty sure we will not have the cap space to sign Hayward unless we renounce a good number of our current players, including Olynyk (who's played well all playoffs long, and is a major reason why we are in the ECF).

I dont think the salary cap is official for next year yet, just a projection. But last I read we'd have to get rid of Rozier/Olynyk/Amir/ and convince Yabusele to stay overseas. if we wanted to give Hayward a full max. Honestly if we are 2 mil off a max contract I still see him picking us over Utah. He'd make like 3x that much in new endorsements alone.

Couldn't they do something like, sign Hayward before Kelly; then go over the cap with a bird's rights deal for KO?

Seems like if we have to renounce so many players, signing a FA strips more assets than a trade would..

No.  To sign Hayward we would need to remove Kelly's salary from our books by renouncing his cap hold and Bird Rights.  He would become a UFA, free to sign with anyone (including us), but we would be able to offer him only a minimum contract (not gonna happen) or the room exception (ditto)

[Moranis]

Utah is probably better than us right now, but their path towards getting better is unclear.  They have no cap space forever, and nobody on their roster looks set for rapid improvement unless somebody like Exum unexpectedly breaks out. 

More than Utah and more than any other team that will be courting Hayward, the Celtics are the only option in the entire league that gives him a legit shot at championship contention.  That's exactly how the organization will be pitching to him.

Gobert has gotten significantly better each of his 4 seasons, I don't know if he was one more season of that sort of improvement, but if he does, he could develop into a legit 2nd/3rd option offensively (and couple that with his defense and he is a modern Dwight Howard type player).  Then you have Hood, who was banged up a bit this year, but if he bounces back healthy, I could see him scoring 20 a game with relative ease making him a very strong 2nd option offensively.  Hill is a solid 4th option type player but is getting older and more and more injured.  Then that brings you to Favors, is he washed up or can he get healthy and recover his form?  He is only 25 right now, which is theoretically just the start of his prime.  Similarly, Burks has been so injured you can't rely on him, but if he could ever get healthy, he would be a great 6th man type player.  Exum and Lyles both have done some nice things, but I don't think you could rely on them. 

If Hayward leaves, I would expect the Jazz to start selling off assets, which would create cap space, of course I'm not sure who they could get there to pair with Gobert and Hood. 

[MBunge]

I would think a lot of players like Haywood are going to start thinking about switching teams at this point in their careers.  Rather than grabbing all the money they can and anchoring yourself to a sucky franchise, sign with a better team and "build your brand." 

Mike

The Jazz aren't a sucky franchise at all.  They also have a defensive player of the year candidate in Gobert, an up coming SG in Hood, and some quality young depth like Mack, Exum, Lyles, etc. and then you add in some crafty vets like Hill (also a free agent), Johnson, Diaw, Ingles, and Favors (who is still pretty young in his own right).  You could almost argue Utah is in a better position than Boston going forward, given the age of Gobert and Hood as compared to Thomas and Horford (Thomas and Horford are better right now no question, but for how much longer, Gobert has continually made jumps every year as has Hood).  Now obviously what sets Boston apart a bit is the draft pick this year and presumably the high one next year as well (though you never know what the Nets will do this summer), but whomever Boston picks may never be as good as Gobert, Hood, etc.  Couple that with Utah being able to offer a lot more money and that being where Hayward has spent his entire career and there are plenty of reasons for someone like Hayward to decide to stay put.

I wouldn't say Utah sucks but four of their core rotation players this season were 29, 30, 34 and 35 years old.  Favors and Exum look like they'll never be what people expected and Rodney Hood is about a year and a half older than Smart.  And if they resign Hill, they'll be blowing just about all their cap room to hold onto a 30-year-old, above average point guard.  Given that max deal guys are almost untradeable, is that what you want to tie yourself to for the next 5 or 6 years?

My point is more that the NBA has made trading or signing free agents so difficult that top line players will almost be forced into taking a more proactive stance if they don't want to spend the bulk of their careers like KG, on teams that have no chance at all to really compete.

Mike

[droopdog7]

So the thread title is completely misleading.