why do so many fans of other teams hate us?

[Eja117]

The peanut bag incident happened. There was at least one caller on Toucher and Rich today morning that corroborated it, said nearby fans identified the offender and he was removed.

The rest of it... *shrug*. You're telling me that Boston is the only place where racist punks are yelling stuff?

edit: This is not to diminish the despicable behavior of one individual (one individual is one too many, for sure). But if you want to know what a racist crowd sounds like... let's just say stuff like this happens in some parts of Europe with alarming regularity (see below).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyNaZA8TBlA

This is where I am on this. You get two thousand drunks up on bleachers during a miserable game and maybe 7 of them start yelling and a few people get ejected and one of them throws something and then the team issues an apology.

Someone at one point tried to tell me how cosmopolitan Europe and France were and a Jewish girl sitting next me suddenly said "Right. Try being Jewish in France." "Or Muslim" "Or a Roma person (gypsy)." "Or anyone."

Maybe my issue is when I hear "Boston is a racist city" I hear Boston being singled out and I hear "Boston is THE MOST racist city." or especially if I hear "Boston has a history of racism." 

Well what does that even mean? What US city or region doesn't have a history of racism? Which city has a monopoly on racial harmony? 

New Orleans. They just took down monuments to 4 Confederates and they have a high murder rate.  DC.  Chicago.   Are you better off there? 

In Chicago they just video taped a special needs guy being tortured. Why won't Chicago be singled out for hating special people for the next 100 years?

I think it's because Boston talks a good game about being progressive and isn't. Boston and the region isn't more racist than other places. They're more hypocritical. There's a difference

[kozlodoev]

I believe that it is up to the offended party to decide if something is racist and if those offended believe something to be racist then the offending party should attempt to act better rather than convince the offended party they are wrong.

Interesting. So, is the Black Lives Matter movement expected to act better with respect to all those people who consider them inherently racist?

[kozlodoev]

Someone at one point tried to tell me how cosmopolitan Europe and France were and a Jewish girl sitting next me suddenly said "Right. Try being Jewish in France." "Or Muslim" "Or a Roma person (gypsy)." "Or anyone."

I concur. I don't think Europe more cosmopolitan than the United States to any degree. In the western parts, even being an Eastern European is often tough (Britain, in particular, is the textbook example for this right now). In the east, being a person of any sort of dark(er) skin color -- even tougher.

[Evantime34]

I believe that it is up to the offended party to decide if something is racist and if those offended believe something to be racist then the offending party should attempt to act better rather than convince the offended party they are wrong.

Interesting. So, is the Black Lives Matter movement expected to act better with respect to all those people who consider them inherently racist?

I think it recently has become en vogue for racist people to point the finger back at minorities. I've seen white people  who don't receive the level of white privilege they are accustomed to cry racism (this is not racism, imo). I don't believe that white people can ever be viewed as the aggrieved/offended party in the US, because it is easier to be white than it is to be black in America.

So I guess I would amend my statement to say that it is up to the majority to behave better when the minority talk about instances in which they have been the victim of racism.

BTW, TP for turning my previous statement on its head.

[kozlodoev]

I believe that it is up to the offended party to decide if something is racist and if those offended believe something to be racist then the offending party should attempt to act better rather than convince the offended party they are wrong.

Interesting. So, is the Black Lives Matter movement expected to act better with respect to all those people who consider them inherently racist?

I think it recently has become en vogue for racist people to point the finger back at minorities. I've seen white people  who don't receive the level of white privilege they are accustomed to cry racism (this is not racism, imo). I don't believe that white people can ever be viewed as the aggrieved/offended party in the US, because it is easier to be white than it is to be black in America.

So I guess I would amend my statement to say that it is up to the majority to behave better when the minority talk about instances in which they have been the victim of racism.

BTW, TP for turning my previous statement on its head.

And I've seen black people who think getting the short straw in life is racism. That isn't it, either. Except guess who gets to say what is what, and you can't really call anyone out according to your definition. Because white privilege, and also it's tough being black.

[Evantime34]

I believe that it is up to the offended party to decide if something is racist and if those offended believe something to be racist then the offending party should attempt to act better rather than convince the offended party they are wrong.

Interesting. So, is the Black Lives Matter movement expected to act better with respect to all those people who consider them inherently racist?

I think it recently has become en vogue for racist people to point the finger back at minorities. I've seen white people  who don't receive the level of white privilege they are accustomed to cry racism (this is not racism, imo). I don't believe that white people can ever be viewed as the aggrieved/offended party in the US, because it is easier to be white than it is to be black in America.

So I guess I would amend my statement to say that it is up to the majority to behave better when the minority talk about instances in which they have been the victim of racism.

BTW, TP for turning my previous statement on its head.

And I've seen black people who think getting the short straw in life is racism. That isn't it, either. Except guess who gets to say what is what, and you can't really call anyone out according to your definition. Because white privilege, and also it's tough being black.

My definition includes minorities getting to decide what is racism and what isn't. Allowing those in power to decide what is racism is a recipe for racism to get worse not better.

Do you believe that white people are subject to the same racism as blacks and hispanics? Even if white people can be subject to racism, we are much more often the perpetrators than the aggrieved. Since minorities are at the very least more likely to deal with racism they should be the judge of what is racist.

When black people draw the short straw in life isn't that more often than not due to institutional racism. With the wealth you are born into determining a lot of your opportunities growing up, doesn't it make sense that black people would start behind, because they originally came to this country with no wealth as tools for white people to become more wealthy?

Throwing up your hands and saying I guess no one can decide what racism is, is a way to ensure that racism not only endures but flourishes.

Too many people (most seen on twitter) think a black person calling out racism against them is a racist act. We can't entertain the idea that identifying racism is in fact a racist act.

[kozlodoev]

Do you believe that white people are subject to the same racism as blacks and hispanics? Even if white people can be subject to racism, we are much more often the perpetrators than the aggrieved. Since minorities are at the very least more likely to deal with racism they should be the judge of what is racist.

Right. And preemptively ruling out discourse about what racism is a sure recipe to get tuned out. It isn't helping anyone.

When black people draw the short straw in life isn't that more often than not due to institutional racism.

Aren't white people more often not racist than racist? Glad we established that, let's move along. I think I just solved America's racial issues.

I mean, if you don't understand why sweeping generalizations that conveniently fit your narrative are not useful, I don't know what to tell you.

Throwing up your hands and saying I guess no one can decide what racism is, is a way to ensure that racism not only endures but flourishes.

I'm not throwing my hands up in the air. I'm very specifically asserting that bogus claims are bogus, and until it's acceptable to call out bogus claims for what they are instead of just glossing them over with, "Well, that's how they feel" -- we aren't going to get anywhere.

[Roy H.]

The discussion of what is or is not racism, and who gets to decide that, should be moved to the Current Events forum.

[kozlodoev]

The discussion of what is or is not racism, and who gets to decide that, should be moved to the Current Events forum.

Sorry, got carried away a bit. Perhaps we an split this off and merge the remainder with the other Adam Jones thread?

[Eja117]

The discussion of what is or is not racism, and who gets to decide that, should be moved to the Current Events forum.

Saw this after. Tried to keep it to the Boston phenomenon

[Evantime34]

I believe that it is up to the offended party to decide if something is racist and if those offended believe something to be racist then the offending party should attempt to act better rather than convince the offended party they are wrong.

Interesting. So, is the Black Lives Matter movement expected to act better with respect to all those people who consider them inherently racist?

I think it recently has become en vogue for racist people to point the finger back at minorities. I've seen white people  who don't receive the level of white privilege they are accustomed to cry racism (this is not racism, imo). I don't believe that white people can ever be viewed as the aggrieved/offended party in the US, because it is easier to be white than it is to be black in America.

So I guess I would amend my statement to say that it is up to the majority to behave better when the minority talk about instances in which they have been the victim of racism.

BTW, TP for turning my previous statement on its head.

And I've seen black people who think getting the short straw in life is racism. That isn't it, either. Except guess who gets to say what is what, and you can't really call anyone out according to your definition. Because white privilege, and also it's tough being black.

My definition includes minorities getting to decide what is racism and what isn't. Allowing those in power to decide what is racism is a recipe for racism to get worse not better.

Do you believe that white people are subject to the same racism as blacks and hispanics? Even if white people can be subject to racism, we are much more often the perpetrators than the aggrieved. Since minorities are at the very least more likely to deal with racism they should be the judge of what is racist.

When black people draw the short straw in life isn't that more often than not due to institutional racism. With the wealth you are born into determining a lot of your opportunities growing up, doesn't it make sense that black people would start behind, because they originally came to this country with no wealth as tools for white people to become more wealthy?

Throwing up your hands and saying I guess no one can decide what racism is, is a way to ensure that racism not only endures but flourishes.

Too many people (most seen on twitter) think a black person calling out racism against them is a racist act. We can't entertain the idea that identifying racism is in fact a racist act.

I can't buy into this perpetual victim narrative. By this theory anyone who has an ancestor that was enslaved at any point has a legitimate grievance today. Unfortunately that is everyone.  Roots was a great movie but let's not lose sight of the fact that Kunta Kinte was himself a slave owner.

If you want to call Boston a racist city and you want me to buy into it don't bring me tears. Bring me data. I will look at the data and agree you're right or wrong.  Like I am pretty tired of Bernie talking about prison fairness when his own state is no better than any other.  In Vermont African Americans are extremely proportionately overrepresented in prison and their increase in this corresponded to the increase in other states.

And that's what I'm saying. The New England area isn't necessarily worse. It's that they talk a good game about being progressive and then don't back it up.

And this isn't the only area. They state they want to be a sanctuary state, but if you are a legal immigrant they will be happy to take your property taxes but you won't get to vote at town meeting or for animal control officer. 

Has anyone looked into whether women in the MA government get equal pay? We sure don't do paid maternity leave yet. CA is doing that.

It's just the way New England is. We talk a good game then people come here, come face to face with reality and say That place is this or that.

I'm not saying that Boston is a racist city, I'm saying that responding to reports of Boston being racist with, "I don't believe you, until you show me data" makes us seem racist.

To take it back to sports, the degree to which Boston seems racist could effect the Boston team's recruitment of free agents. It's not about convincing people in Boston that Boston is racist, but about convincing people outside of Boston that we aren't. Saying I don't believe Boston is racist until I see proof makes us seem racist.

Ok now I'm done. Again sorry for this discussion if it bothered anyone.

[Onslaught]

I can say that lots of black people I know around my age (43) looked as Boston as a white city. I think it comes down to things talked about already here and  the fact that the Celtics had so many white basketball stars. Im not saying theres anything wrong with that at all. Red Auerbach didn't have a racist bone in his body. He just put together the best team he could regardless of color.  I knew lots of white kids who loved the Celtics only because of Bird being white. And I knew other kids who hated the Celtics because Bird was white.

I think what we’ve all determined here is America still has a race problem and it's not just a Boston thing.