Your best and worst case 17-18 Roster

[perks-a-beast]

this summer has the potential to be the Celtics most crucial offseason in a decade. Not only do they have the cap flexibility to offer a max contract, but are now also guaranteed a top 4 pick. I know a lot of you are torn on which direction Ainge should take with this team, whether to cash in our assets on a quantity for quality trade, or to stay pat and continue to develope through the draft...

So I'm curious as to what people would see as a good and bad offseason for the C's. Personally, I see it impossible for it to be a failure of an offseason considering our high pick and the fact that we don't have to face any of our key players walking away in free agency. But here is what I would considering an underwhelming offseason..I'll try and make it as specific as possible.

*Miss out on Markelle Fultz in the draft and end up picking Josh Jackson. No knock against Jackson, but we already have guys who fit his description to a tee - A high intensity player who can switch to multiple positions but has offensive deficiencies. Wouldn't be an upgrade over Brown, Crowder, or Avery next year. If the Celts miss out on Fult, who I view as the only truly transcendent prospect in the 2017 class, I prefer Ainge take a pure scorer such as Tatum or Monk. Both would bring instant offensive fire power to the second unit. Whoever has payed just a fraction of attention to this team these past couple years know that we really struggle to put the ball in the basket if IT4 is not out there.

*dont come away with a quality player in the second round capable of making the team next year. Drafting in this range used to be Danny's bread and butter but it seems it has been a long time since we drafted a player in the 2nd round who can shine on any team outside of the Red Claws.

*unable to upgrade the PF spot and end up settling for resigning Amir Johnson, who is by far the one of the most mediocre starting bigs in the NBA.

*end up losing or overpaying for Kelly Olynyk. I believe there are teams out there who will be willing to overpay for the services of KO considering the high demand for bigs who spread the floor. Teams like MIN, MIA, and BKN are a few that I can think of who are a threat to offer Olynyk a deal the Celts won't be able to match in order to maintain flexibility. I'm a big fan of KO but if someone were to say that overpaying him may be worse than losing him, I may be inclined to agree.

So that leaves the 17-18 Celtics looking like...

C - Al Horford / Ante Zizic / Tyler Zeller

PF - Amir Johnson / Guerschon Yabusele / Jordan Mickey?

SF - Jae Crowder / Josh Jackson / James Young?

SG - Avery Bradley / Jaylen Brown / Gerald Green?

PG - Isaiah Thomas / Marcus Smart / Terry Rozier

So essentially it's the same team minus KO plus Jackson, Zizic, and Yabusele. Like I said - not terrible. But that still leaves us with a log jam of guards and more good young players, none of whom project to be great.

This is my best case scenario offseason, which like any hopefully scenario, is a blend of optimism and the options that are realistically available to us..

*Danny makes a balls to the wall decision and trades our pick, Bradley, Zeller, and possibly more for Paul George. Of course it has been stated that PG13 has a player option after this year and has showed strong preference to play for the Lakers, but I genuinely believe that once he is indoctrinated into the Celtic culture and has a chance to absorb the legacy and mystique of Boston sports, he'll quickly change his mind on that. Ecspecially considering the Celtics will have a better team to put round him.

*Pull off signing Gordon Hayward. Its been said 1,456,301 times on this blog why this makes a lot of sense for both parties. It makes sense even more so with Paul George on board as well, who has gone on record saying he would like to play with Hayward.

*Re-sign

Leaves us with..

C - Al Horford / Ante Zizic / FA

PF - Jae Crowder / Amir Johnson / Guerschon Yabusele

SF - Paul George / Jaylen Brown / Abdel Nader

SG - Gordon Hayward / Marcus Smart / James Younng

PG - Isaiah Thomas / Terry Rozier / Demetrius Jackson

instant contenders who remain flexible to make a trade.

[makaveli]

this summer has the potential to be the Celtics most crucial offseason in a decade. Not only do they have the cap flexibility to offer a max contract, but are now also guaranteed a top 4 pick. I know a lot of you are torn on which direction Ainge should take with this team, whether to cash in our assets on a quantity for quality trade, or to stay pat and continue to develope through the draft...

So I'm curious as to what people would see as a good and bad offseason for the C's. Personally, I see it impossible for it to be a failure of an offseason considering our high pick and the fact that we don't have to face any of our key players walking away in free agency. But here is what I would considering an underwhelming offseason..I'll try and make it as specific as possible.

*Miss out on Markelle Fultz in the draft and end up picking Josh Jackson. No knock against Jackson, but we already have guys who fit his description to a tee - A high intensity player who can switch to multiple positions but has offensive deficiencies. Wouldn't be an upgrade over Brown, Crowder, or Avery next year. If the Celts miss out on Fult, who I view as the only truly transcendent prospect in the 2017 class, I prefer Ainge take a pure scorer such as Tatum or Monk. Both would bring instant offensive fire power to the second unit. Whoever has payed just a fraction of attention to this team these past couple years know that we really struggle to put the ball in the basket if IT4 is not out there.

*dont come away with a quality player in the second round capable of making the team next year. Drafting in this range used to be Danny's bread and butter but it seems it has been a long time since we drafted a player in the 2nd round who can shine on any team outside of the Red Claws.

*unable to upgrade the PF spot and end up settling for resigning Amir Johnson, who is by far the one of the most mediocre starting bigs in the NBA.

*end up losing or overpaying for Kelly Olynyk. I believe there are teams out there who will be willing to overpay for the services of KO considering the high demand for bigs who spread the floor. Teams like MIN, MIA, and BKN are a few that I can think of who are a threat to offer Olynyk a deal the Celts won't be able to match in order to maintain flexibility. I'm a big fan of KO but if someone were to say that overpaying him may be worse than losing him, I may be inclined to agree.

So that leaves the 17-18 Celtics looking like...

C - Al Horford / Ante Zizic / Tyler Zeller

PF - Amir Johnson / Guerschon Yabusele / Jordan Mickey?

SF - Jae Crowder / Josh Jackson / James Young?

SG - Avery Bradley / Jaylen Brown / Gerald Green?

PG - Isaiah Thomas / Marcus Smart / Terry Rozier

So essentially it's the same team minus KO plus Jackson, Zizic, and Yabusele. Like I said - not terrible. But that still leaves us with a log jam of guards and more good young players, none of whom project to be great.

This is my best case scenario offseason, which like any hopefully scenario, is a blend of optimism and the options that are realistically available to us..

*Danny makes a balls to the wall decision and trades our pick, Bradley, Zeller, and possibly more for Paul George. Of course it has been stated that PG13 has a player option after this year and has showed strong preference to play for the Lakers, but I genuinely believe that once he is indoctrinated into the Celtic culture and has a chance to absorb the legacy and mystique of Boston sports, he'll quickly change his mind on that. Ecspecially considering the Celtics will have a better team to put round him.

*Pull off signing Gordon Hayward. Its been said 1,456,301 times on this blog why this makes a lot of sense for both parties. It makes sense even more so with Paul George on board as well, who has gone on record saying he would like to play with Hayward.

*Re-sign

Leaves us with..

C - Al Horford / Ante Zizic / FA

PF - Jae Crowder / Amir Johnson / Guerschon Yabusele

SF - Paul George / Jaylen Brown / Abdel Nader

SG - Gordon Hayward / Marcus Smart / James Younng

PG - Isaiah Thomas / Terry Rozier / Demetrius Jackson

instant contenders who remain flexible to make a trade.

TP for the effort

for me, there is no way that we get both Hayward and George, and it makes no sence. One mayor flaw IMHO in your ideal team is again rebounding with crowder and horford.

1. I would love to get Hayward via free agency
2. draft fultz
3. trade the 2018 nets and celtics pick for someone like whiteside
4. keep kelly
5. zizic becomes what we all hope for, a 15 min energy beast from the bench

so

C - Whiteside / Ante Zizic / Olynyk

PF -Al Horford / FA / Guerschon Yabusele

SF - Jae Crowder / Jaylen Brown / Abdel Nader

SG - Gordon Hayward / Marcus Smart / Terry Rozier

PG - Isaiah Thomas / Fultz / Demetrius Jackson

[Bucketgetter]

Best case is we sign Blake for the max and draft Fultz with the #1 pick. Contenders for the next 10 years.

[PhoSita]

Worst case?  Hm.

So I guess this means we get #4 in the draft.

It would mean Chicago and Indiana decide to hold onto their superstars, or that they make a deal with some other team.

Also this would mean we can't get any of the top free agents to sign with us.

In that case, here's what I'd envision.


Draft:

#4 - Monk or Tatum
#37 - Draft & Stash or traded for cash & future considerations

Free Agency:

- Re-sign Olynyk
- Sign a veteran big like Taj Gibson with the remaining cap space to a 1+1 deal (like Amir two summers ago)
- Re-sign Amir with the MLE


- Yabu spends another year overseas
- Zizic signs his rookie deal and joins the team.
- Nader signs a multiyear minimum deal



IT / Smart / Jackson
Bradley / Brown / Rozier
Crowder / Tatum / Nader
Horford / Olynyk / Mickey
Gibson / Amir / Zizic


In this case, the main rotation is the same, except that Gibson slots into the starting lineup and Amir joins Smart, Brown, and Olynyk on the bench.  Plus, you have #4 (Monk or Tatum) as the fifth bench guy earning minutes over the course of the season.


I think that in this scenario, there would be a lot of pressure on the team to trade either Bradley or IT around the deadline given that going way over the cap to keep both of them next summer won't make a lot of sense.

[positivitize]

Your best case scenario is my nightmare scenario.

IT and Horford are not here to contend--at least, that's not what our team is built to do. IT and Horford are here to make us competitive while the young guys we draft grow into full on players. They are here to ensure that the Celtics are competitive and watchable while we harvest the BKN picks. They are here to instill a winning culture in our youngin's. We are Phili right now--tons of high potential young players who need to grow--the only difference is, we've got enough of a team to play winning, fun to watch basketball.

Trading the pick away would signal impatience on DA's part. We have no need to be impatient. We have a ton of good young players and we're getting more. If we were to trade the pick for PG, it would come
along with trading our young players for established talent to field a contender. Sure, we might compete for championships for 2-4 years with IT, Horford, PG, Hayward, and whoever else is left on our roster, but if we keep the picks we can grow a dynasty.

Coming into this league, Brad Stevens was well-known for taking young players and putting them in the position to succeed/grow/become better players. Danny brought PBS on so that we could tank, get a few high ceiling players, and PBS could shape them into better players. PBS adapted to the NBA quicker than DA anticipated--which resulted in Rozier instead of Winslow and a 50 win team this year instead of a 45-48 win team this year. Don't mistake our success for the completion of Danny's vision. Danny will continue to bring talented youngsters to PBS and PBS will continue to shape those youngsters in a positive team environment/culture that values hard work, continuity, winning, and respect.

As for the original point of your post--

Worst case scenario would be trading the pick for a year rental of Paul George.

Best case scenario would be drafting Fultz and signing Blake Griffin (which would require trading either Crowder or AB)

Leaves us with

C--Horford / Zizic
PF-Griffin / Yabusele
SF-Crowder / Jaylen / Nader
SG-Smart / Rozier
G--IT / Fultz

Smart, IT, and Fultz all spend time at G/SG.

[rochrist]

this summer has the potential to be the Celtics most crucial offseason in a decade. Not only do they have the cap flexibility to offer a max contract, but are now also guaranteed a top 4 pick. I know a lot of you are torn on which direction Ainge should take with this team, whether to cash in our assets on a quantity for quality trade, or to stay pat and continue to develope through the draft...

So I'm curious as to what people would see as a good and bad offseason for the C's. Personally, I see it impossible for it to be a failure of an offseason considering our high pick and the fact that we don't have to face any of our key players walking away in free agency. But here is what I would considering an underwhelming offseason..I'll try and make it as specific as possible.

*Miss out on Markelle Fultz in the draft and end up picking Josh Jackson. No knock against Jackson, but we already have guys who fit his description to a tee - A high intensity player who can switch to multiple positions but has offensive deficiencies. Wouldn't be an upgrade over Brown, Crowder, or Avery next year. If the Celts miss out on Fult, who I view as the only truly transcendent prospect in the 2017 class, I prefer Ainge take a pure scorer such as Tatum or Monk. Both would bring instant offensive fire power to the second unit. Whoever has payed just a fraction of attention to this team these past couple years know that we really struggle to put the ball in the basket if IT4 is not out there.

*dont come away with a quality player in the second round capable of making the team next year. Drafting in this range used to be Danny's bread and butter but it seems it has been a long time since we drafted a player in the 2nd round who can shine on any team outside of the Red Claws.

*unable to upgrade the PF spot and end up settling for resigning Amir Johnson, who is by far the one of the most mediocre starting bigs in the NBA.

*end up losing or overpaying for Kelly Olynyk. I believe there are teams out there who will be willing to overpay for the services of KO considering the high demand for bigs who spread the floor. Teams like MIN, MIA, and BKN are a few that I can think of who are a threat to offer Olynyk a deal the Celts won't be able to match in order to maintain flexibility. I'm a big fan of KO but if someone were to say that overpaying him may be worse than losing him, I may be inclined to agree.

So that leaves the 17-18 Celtics looking like...

C - Al Horford / Ante Zizic / Tyler Zeller

PF - Amir Johnson / Guerschon Yabusele / Jordan Mickey?

SF - Jae Crowder / Josh Jackson / James Young?

SG - Avery Bradley / Jaylen Brown / Gerald Green?

PG - Isaiah Thomas / Marcus Smart / Terry Rozier

So essentially it's the same team minus KO plus Jackson, Zizic, and Yabusele. Like I said - not terrible. But that still leaves us with a log jam of guards and more good young players, none of whom project to be great.

This is my best case scenario offseason, which like any hopefully scenario, is a blend of optimism and the options that are realistically available to us..

*Danny makes a balls to the wall decision and trades our pick, Bradley, Zeller, and possibly more for Paul George. Of course it has been stated that PG13 has a player option after this year and has showed strong preference to play for the Lakers, but I genuinely believe that once he is indoctrinated into the Celtic culture and has a chance to absorb the legacy and mystique of Boston sports, he'll quickly change his mind on that. Ecspecially considering the Celtics will have a better team to put round him.

*Pull off signing Gordon Hayward. Its been said 1,456,301 times on this blog why this makes a lot of sense for both parties. It makes sense even more so with Paul George on board as well, who has gone on record saying he would like to play with Hayward.

*Re-sign

Leaves us with..

C - Al Horford / Ante Zizic / FA

PF - Jae Crowder / Amir Johnson / Guerschon Yabusele

SF - Paul George / Jaylen Brown / Abdel Nader

SG - Gordon Hayward / Marcus Smart / James Younng

PG - Isaiah Thomas / Terry Rozier / Demetrius Jackson

instant contenders who remain flexible to make a trade.

And then Paul George leaves to put us back at square one.

[Darío SpanishFan]

You can't have Crowder starting as PF in your best case roster.

I guess our worst case is the same roster with number 4 overall. Zizic gets a gigantic offer from Europe and doesn't join, as well as Yabusele. So the same roster with number 4 pick.

Best case is adding Fultz, Hayward as a FA, Zizic and a quality player with Minnesota's second rounder. And losing the least amount of good players due to salary cap adjustments to get Hayward.

Personal opinion: My best case (I know most of you don't agree) would be trading IT for Saric/Myles Turner and a pick, as you win playoff series with strong five-man defense (hopefully I'm proven wrong in a few weeks).

Smart/Fultz (roles change as season advances)
Bradley/Brown
Hayward/Crowder
Saric or Turner/Crowder
Horford/Zizic

This nine-man rotation with our Minny pick, Yabu, Amir (minimum), G. Green (same) and rookie-scaled players in depth chart.

In offense, we substitute Isaiah with Hayward, Fultz and a Jaylen Brown with more experience, while our problems in defense due to size and rebounding are mainly fixed.

[Quetzalcoatl]

My problem is always with this reality:

1.) Jaylen Brown is more of a SF than a SG

2.) Hoford is a PF that can play Center, but he would much prefer to be a facilitator at the 4. 

3.) The most realistic, best trade/FA targets we have are Jimmy Butler, Gordon Hayward and Paul George. They would all be best at the 3, although JB and GH were 2s last year and PG can play the 4.

4.) Fultz (preferably as a Wade-esque SG) and Josh Jackson (a SF who can play the 4 like Paul George) are our two most likely draft targets.

5.) Crowder is really good and on an excellent contract, but isn't as good as anyone listed in 3.  If we get Fultz, then Bradley is also expendable.

6.) Zizic looks ready to contribute right away

7.) The most realistic Center target is DeAndre Jordan and basically nothing else would make sense.

So how do we reconcile all of this?  I think best case is:

we draft Fultz, slot him in as the 2.  We sign Gordon Hayward, slot him in as a 3.  We trade Bradley, Crowder & BK 18 for Paul George or DeAndre Jordan.

IT / Fultz / Hayward / Paul George / Horford

or

IT / Fultz / Hayward / Horford / DeAndre

___

I mean worst case could go in any direction.  We could sign Derrick Rose, trade IT for Greg Monroe and trade Crowder for Brook Lopez, then draft Dennis "T-Rex Arms" Smith Jr. 4th overall.

[BitterJim]

Best case scenario?

1. Get the #1 pick and use it on Fultz.
2. Sign Griffin to a max or near-max contract.  Whatever we can give him without getting rid of rostered players better than Rozier/Jackson.  If needed, get Yabusele to agree to play overseas for another year.
3a. Sign Fultz and wait 30 days
3b. Trade Fultz+AB for George.  Yes, I know that he is a FA next season and has expressed interest in playing LA, but I can't see him leaving a contender to play on a rebuilding squad for less money just because it's his hometown.  He would resign here.
4. Sign Zizic and Nader.
5. Look to add vets for minimum salaries or the room exception. Ideally resign Amir for the room exception and a 3-and-D guard.
6. Roll out a lineup of:
Horford/Zizic
Blake/Amir
Crowder/Brown
George/3-and-D Vet
IT/Smart
and win the championship.

Worst case?

1. Celtics get #4 pick and take Tatum or Monk (not bad picks, but #4 would suck)
2. Nets make some good win-now picks with the Washington and Boston draft picks
3. Nets keep Lopez, sign KCP, and manage to get a decent stretch big (like Ilyasova) to fit their offense. Their whole team works on their 3 point shooting and looks like a lock for a 5-10 pick.
4. Celtics miss on good FAs and settle for renegotiating IT to a ~$25 million/year max contract (for 2017-18 and 3 seasons after) (this wouldn't be a bad thing, but if that's all we can do with  our cap space then that's unfortunate). Using that cap space on IT means that Kelly is not brought back.  Jerebko is resigned.
5. Yabu, Zizic, and Nader all signed (yay!), but are asked to play much bigger roles than they are ready for (ugh).  Yabu and Nader struggle to adjust.
6. The roster looks like:
Horford/Zizic
Jerebko/Yabu
Crowder/Brown/Nader
Bradley/Monk
IT/Smart/Rozier
team regresses to ~45 wins and the 5th seed on the East.

[Csfan1984]

Draft Day
Fultz.
AB and mid second for Markkanen.
Jordan Bell.

FA/Cap moves
Let go=AJ, KO, Young, Jerekbo, Zeller, Mickey and DJ.

Sign
Griffin
extend IT 3 years,
extend Smart 3 years,
Bring in Nader, Yab and Zizic

IT/Smart/Rozier
Brown/Fultz
Crowder/Nader
Griffin/Markkanen/Yab
Horford/Zizic/Bell

[SHAQATTACK]

My best has Fultz , Paul George added ....Bradley Crowder , KO , Rozier , JJ and Zeller traded and others ....add Boogie
Add Zizic and Nader to Fultz and Smart and Brown and IT and Yab



Worst case ......4 th pick Monk ( I just don't think it can get this bad ) .....I hope for at least Jackson

Keeping Bradley and KO ......not moving to get a serious Star Big .....ugh

Another year or Zeller is painful to think about.