Thomas's contract if we draft Fultz

[KG Living Legend]

 If we draft Fultz, Ball, or Fox and if they show really well next year does that give us some leverage at least negotiating his next contract.

 The reason you have to like the Fultz fit so much is because he could in theory replace Bradley or Thomas in the starting lineup.

 Love the idea of turning Fultz loose from day one at PG, if he's great, we can look at trading Thomas, If not we resign Thomas and replace Bradley with Fultz.

[Csfan1984]

I hope we get an extension worked out for IT that's max $ for three years only. I feel Fultz can play starting SG next to IT in his first two years. Then IT can take the Iggy role being the high paid 6 man off the bench while Fultz takes over the point the 3rd year. In that role you then give another 3 to 4 year deal to IT to be our long term six man like Crawford.

[KG Living Legend]

I hope we get an extension worked out for IT that's max $ for three years only. I feel Fultz can play starting SG next to IT in his first two years. Then IT can take the Iggy role being the high paid 6 man off the bench while Fultz takes over the point the 3rd year. In that role you then give me another 3 to 4 year deal to IT to be our long term six man like Crawford.

 Tp Celtics fan, Great answer.

[nickagneta]

Unless Fultz or Ball can come in and right away play like a 6-7 year vet and be a tremendous offensive force and an above average defender, then their presence on the team will mean absolutely nothing when it comes to IT's next contract. IT should get a 4 year max regardless of what Ball or Fultz does unless, as I said, they play well beyond their years right from the start, which I think is asking too much of them.

[saltlover]

Repeating myself again.

If you renegetotiate and extend IT this summer, he'd start at the max salary for a 0-6 player, currently forecast at $25.25 million.  His 2018-2019 salary would be $27.3 million.  If he is re-signed as a max free agent instead, his salary would be at the 7-9 max, currently forecast to be $30.9 million.  Over the same 4-year period (2018-2022), the max this summer would cost $121.2 million, while the max next summer would cost $138.4 million.  In the final year, he'd make $33.3 million of renegotiated this summer, and $38.3 million if signed in 2018.  Despite these future savings, he'd make more over the next 5 seasons if renegotiated this summer, $146 to $144 million, since his salary next year is so low and he'd be getting an early raise.  So he'd absolutely accept the deal unless he really wanted to test free agency. 

If there is no max free agent, and the math has always been very difficult for that if we got Fultz, this is the best path forward for our cap space (it does not preclude any kind of trade).  I find it unlikely that IT would accept anything less than 5 years, and his play in the last two years has earned a full deal.  Doing it this way does make it a bit safer, as he'd be making around 86% of his max in the final year.

[Big333223]

IT's contract is going to be interesting. I totally agree with everyone who says he deserves a max contract. But the reality of the market might not bear that out. Which is good for the Celtics' cap. There's a ton of good point guards in the league with 5 of the top 10 draft picks this summer expcted to be PG's. How many teams are actually going to be looking for a PG in summer '18?

Also, the salary cap is stabalizing so there are going to be fewer teams that even have max room a year from now. Given IT's size, age, and these other concerns there might not be a max offer for the Celtics to have to negotiate against.

[KG Living Legend]

Repeating myself again.

If you renegetotiate and extend IT this summer, he'd start at the max salary for a 0-6 player, currently forecast at $25.25 million.  His 2018-2019 salary would be $27.3 million.  If he is re-signed as a max free agent instead, his salary would be at the 7-9 max, currently forecast to be $30.9 million.  Over the same 4-year period (2018-2022), the max this summer would cost $121.2 million, while the max next summer would cost $138.4 million.  In the final year, he'd make $33.3 million of renegotiated this summer, and $38.3 million if signed in 2018.  Despite these future savings, he'd make more over the next 5 seasons if renegotiated this summer, $146 to $144 million, since his salary next year is so low and he'd be getting an early raise.  So he'd absolutely accept the deal unless he really wanted to test free agency. 

If there is no max free agent, and the math has always been very difficult for that if we got Fultz, this is the best path forward for our cap space (it does not preclude any kind of trade).  I find it unlikely that IT would accept anything less than 5 years, and his play in the last two years has earned a full deal.  Doing it this way does make it a bit safer, as he'd be making around 86% of his max in the final year.

 So let's use the first example. It signs for 25 million per year to 27 million. We get the number 1 pick and sign Blake or Hayward.

 Who do we have to dump at that point Bradley, can we get away with less.

[saltlover]

IT's contract is going to be interesting. I totally agree with everyone who says he deserves a max contract. But the reality of the market might not bear that out. Which is good for the Celtics' cap. There's a ton of good point guards in the league with 5 of the top 10 draft picks this summer expcted to be PG's. How many teams are actually going to be looking for a PG in summer '18?

Also, the salary cap is stabalizing so there are going to be fewer teams that even have max room a year from now. Given IT's size, age, and these other concerns there might not be a max offer for the Celtics to have to negotiate against.

It only takes one team, of course.  Just going through the teams alphabetically I hit Chicago pretty quickly.  Plenty of cap space (7 players under contract for $46 million), playoff contender, and only Cameron Payne is under contract as a PG beyond next season.  They also won't have a great draft pick, and might miss out on a PG in the draft.  My guess is there are a couple of other teams out there that could work, but Chicago is for certain a threat.

[saltlover]

Repeating myself again.

If you renegetotiate and extend IT this summer, he'd start at the max salary for a 0-6 player, currently forecast at $25.25 million.  His 2018-2019 salary would be $27.3 million.  If he is re-signed as a max free agent instead, his salary would be at the 7-9 max, currently forecast to be $30.9 million.  Over the same 4-year period (2018-2022), the max this summer would cost $121.2 million, while the max next summer would cost $138.4 million.  In the final year, he'd make $33.3 million of renegotiated this summer, and $38.3 million if signed in 2018.  Despite these future savings, he'd make more over the next 5 seasons if renegotiated this summer, $146 to $144 million, since his salary next year is so low and he'd be getting an early raise.  So he'd absolutely accept the deal unless he really wanted to test free agency. 

If there is no max free agent, and the math has always been very difficult for that if we got Fultz, this is the best path forward for our cap space (it does not preclude any kind of trade).  I find it unlikely that IT would accept anything less than 5 years, and his play in the last two years has earned a full deal.  Doing it this way does make it a bit safer, as he'd be making around 86% of his max in the final year.

 So let's use the first example. It signs for 25 million per year to 27 million. We get the number 1 pick and sign Blake or Hayward.

 Who do we have to dump at that point Bradley, can we get away with less.

If we get the #1, you'd have to dump Bradley just to sign Blake or Hayward.  There's zero money to do anything with IT's contract.

[Chris22]

IT is not worth max money.
He can't defend.

[celticsclay]

IT is not worth max money.
He can't defend.

Sigh. Westbrook and Harden are horrible defenders. Westbrook contests shots at an embarrassing rate and frequently turns and runs in for a rebound leaving shooter wide open. He gets a pass on this kind of defense seemingly because he "looks" like he would be a good defender. Harden's defensive issues are well document. Irving is an awful defensive player. Are those guys not worth a max contract either?

[Big333223]

IT's contract is going to be interesting. I totally agree with everyone who says he deserves a max contract. But the reality of the market might not bear that out. Which is good for the Celtics' cap. There's a ton of good point guards in the league with 5 of the top 10 draft picks this summer expcted to be PG's. How many teams are actually going to be looking for a PG in summer '18?

Also, the salary cap is stabalizing so there are going to be fewer teams that even have max room a year from now. Given IT's size, age, and these other concerns there might not be a max offer for the Celtics to have to negotiate against.

It only takes one team, of course.  Just going through the teams alphabetically I hit Chicago pretty quickly.  Plenty of cap space (7 players under contract for $46 million), playoff contender, and only Cameron Payne is under contract as a PG beyond next season.  They also won't have a great draft pick, and might miss out on a PG in the draft.  My guess is there are a couple of other teams out there that could work, but Chicago is for certain a threat.

Chicago is a nice example of a team that needs a pg but even they are not certain to be a threat. If they're not very good and Jimmy Butler is there only real asset. If Jimmy Butler leaves this summer or before the trade deadline next year, the Bulls will be rebuilding, which would make someone of Thomas' age a no go as a free agent signing. We'll also have to see what they do with in free agency this summer and how that affects their cap.

Plenty of reasons they might be out of that race.

[saltlover]

IT's contract is going to be interesting. I totally agree with everyone who says he deserves a max contract. But the reality of the market might not bear that out. Which is good for the Celtics' cap. There's a ton of good point guards in the league with 5 of the top 10 draft picks this summer expcted to be PG's. How many teams are actually going to be looking for a PG in summer '18?

Also, the salary cap is stabalizing so there are going to be fewer teams that even have max room a year from now. Given IT's size, age, and these other concerns there might not be a max offer for the Celtics to have to negotiate against.

It only takes one team, of course.  Just going through the teams alphabetically I hit Chicago pretty quickly.  Plenty of cap space (7 players under contract for $46 million), playoff contender, and only Cameron Payne is under contract as a PG beyond next season.  They also won't have a great draft pick, and might miss out on a PG in the draft.  My guess is there are a couple of other teams out there that could work, but Chicago is for certain a threat.

Chicago is a nice example of a team that needs a pg but even they are not certain to be a threat. If they're not very good and Jimmy Butler is there only real asset. If Jimmy Butler leaves this summer or before the trade deadline next year, the Bulls will be rebuilding, which would make someone of Thomas' age a no go as a free agent signing. We'll also have to see what they do with in free agency this summer and how that affects their cap.

Plenty of reasons they might be out of that race.

Even without Butler, I'd still bet Chicago would offer IT a deal.  Free agent all-stars in their 20s don't hit the market al that much, and Chicago is clearly not comprised of a management team looking for a lengthy rebuild.

I could see Orlando trying to make room, or the Lakers as well.  The Nets will have room, and while they've been patient so far, they will undoubtedly have max cap space.  We'll see what happens, but I will be 100% shocked if IT doesn't have a max deal coming out of free agency, should he even reach free agency.

[CelticSooner]

IT's next contract depends more on who's around him than him. This summer will decide whether or not he is on this team after next season.

[Celtics4ever]

Westbrook and Harden are horrible defenders. Westbrook contests shots at an embarrassing rate and frequently turns and runs in for a rebound leaving shooter wide open.

I don't know about Westbrook's D being as poor as you think.  He is also a better player across the board.

Guarding 3s he makes opponents shoot 5% lower from the field

- Guarding midrange he makes opponents shoot 4% lower from the field

- Guarding shots in the paint he makes opponents shoot 6% lower from the field

- All from NBA.com Field Goals Defended

http://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2017/1/13/14203932/the-case-for-russell-defending-westbrooks-defense