This Jimmy Butler Trade Saga Feels Similar To The Chris Sale Trade Saga..

[Phantom255x]

Allow me to explain. To those of you not Red Sox fans here, you probably at least heard the news that the Red Sox made a trade for an elite pitcher from the White Sox in Chris Sale. It was considered a blockbuster move that actually was considered a win-win for both sides (though I felt it was a slight overpay by Boston), since it allowed the Boston Red Sox to enter win-now contention and the Chicago White Sox to hit the reset button and start a rebuild "the right way".

Here is a broad chronological overview of what happened, and I'll briefly explain in parenthesis how it sort of relates to the Celtics and Butler here.

1. Red Sox had been rumored to be after Chris Sale for almost two years, but never felt they could formulate a deal since the other side was extremely reluctant (And same with the Celtics, who in LAST YEAR'S TRADE DEADLINE supposedly went after an "unexpected target" that was presumed to be Jimmy Butler - the sides couldn't work it out though according to Ainge).

2. In the 2015-2016 off season, more than a year ago, the Red Sox tried to go after Sale, but couldn't do it because the asking price was TOO HIGH from the White Sox when they wanted the likes of JBJ, Benintendi, Moncada, ETC. (The Celtics in the off season, around Draft Day, also held talks for Butler, but as we know/heard, the asking price was TOO MUCH - 2016 and 2017 BKN Picks + Crowder + Smart + some sweeteners - NO DEAL).

3. In the Trade Deadline last July for the Red Sox, both sides talked and the Red Sox felt the need to send Ortiz off the right way and had a ton of discussions with the White Sox for Chris Sale. However the Red Sox, rightfully so, declined saying it was not worth trading away JBJ who was having an all star season, AND a bunch of top prospects for Chris Sale. It would be a lateral move and still wouldn't guarantee a World Series title. Also the White Sox still felt unsure about whether they wanted to fully hit the rebuild button yet. (And just two weeks ago, the Celtics and Bulls had a ton of discussion, but again, asking price too high, Bulls unsure if they want to rebuild, and Celtics rightfully not believing that a Butler trade gets them a Finals THIS season).

4. And now, about 4 months ago, the White Sox decided to hit the full rebuild button, and traded away Sale for a price a bit lower than they were asking for before, and though it was still a lot, it was enough for the Red Sox to bite and didn't require many core and long term members. Just Moncada really, and the rest were prospects still 2-3 years away at least.

... And now here we are. Play this season out, and then we enter the Draft and this summer's FA. The Bulls may decide to hit full rebuild if they have a poor playoff showing and Wade leaves, and might expect a price a bit lower than what they asked before as a result.

It's also ironic that again, it's Boston and Chicago involved in a ton of trades in almost all the sports where BOS gets the "star player" (White Sox-Red Sox for Chris Sale; Bears-Patriots for Martellus Bennett; Celtics-Bulls for Butler?). The main difference is the White Sox missed the playoffs while the Bulls may make it as a 6-7 seed, but they could have an underwhelming first round exit possibly.

My gut tells me Ainge goes hard after a Butler + Griffin/Hayward duo this off season (because it's Ainge of course), but of course, my gut doesn't actually make the calls or the trade, and I would hate to lose Bradley, Crowder AND #1 pick in a Butler trade (since it would HAVE to happen for it to work under the cap if we add Butler + max FA).

So you guys think this is a fair comparison? What do you predict this summer? There will definitely be talks as usual because hey, why stop the trade chatter now.. 

[Big333223]

I think it's possible these things become self-fulfilling prophecies. The talks go on for so long that both teams wind up feeling like they have to make some kind of deal eventually. Of course, they don't, but when it goes on for long enough the mind kind of tricks itself into thinking it's inevitable.

[Phantom255x]

I think it's possible these things become self-fulfilling prophecies. The talks go on for so long that both teams wind up feeling like they have to make some kind of deal eventually. Of course, they don't, but when it goes on for long enough the mind kind of tricks itself into thinking it's inevitable.

Yep, it's just this does seem eerily similar to the Chris Sale saga.

Obviously different sports, and no guarantee at all Butler comes here.

But the situations are a tad bit similar in a broad sense.

Also Sale has 3 years left in contract. Butler has two years left from Old CBA contract (so not rentals; under contract).

[Big333223]

I think it's possible these things become self-fulfilling prophecies. The talks go on for so long that both teams wind up feeling like they have to make some kind of deal eventually. Of course, they don't, but when it goes on for long enough the mind kind of tricks itself into thinking it's inevitable.

Yep, it's just this does seem eerily similar to the Chris Sale saga.

Obviously different sports, and no guarantee at all Butler comes here.

But the situations are a tad bit similar in a broad sense.

Also Sale has 3 years left in contract. Butler has two years left from Old CBA contract (so not rentals; under contract).

Most definitely.

Here's hoping you're right, anyway.

[Phantom255x]

I think it's possible these things become self-fulfilling prophecies. The talks go on for so long that both teams wind up feeling like they have to make some kind of deal eventually. Of course, they don't, but when it goes on for long enough the mind kind of tricks itself into thinking it's inevitable.

Yep, it's just this does seem eerily similar to the Chris Sale saga.

Obviously different sports, and no guarantee at all Butler comes here.

But the situations are a tad bit similar in a broad sense.

Also Sale has 3 years left in contract. Butler has two years left from Old CBA contract (so not rentals; under contract).

Most definitely.

Here's hoping you're right, anyway.

Depends.

Butler alone isn't winning us anything.

But Butler + Max FA kills our depth a lot, especially front court (unless Griffin is coming here).

Either way, Ainge will have a lot of tough decisions to make this summer.

[TheSundanceKid]

I think this summer we don't sign a max FA and don't make a trade. We use the cap space to renegotiate ITs contract, bring back KO and use the MLE or RE to sign a rotation big.

 A lot depends on how this core competes in the playoffs. Unlike others I'm not concerned by the rebounding 'woes' we have, I think we can make a decent run and it'll convince Ainge to stick with our core and grow organically

[kraidstar]

There are some definite parallels, TP.

One that wasn't mentioned is that Jerry Reinsdorf owns both the Bulls and the White Sox.

[#1P4P]

The Dombrowski-mentality has definitely been the preferred route here. I prefer to keep the prospects (if they're the level of Smart, Brown, Fultz/Ball/Jackson) and develop them in this environment. It makes more sense in the NBA than the MLB, but never to allow impatience cause an overpay.

If the Cs get a Hayward/Griffin to commit this summer, trading Fultz/Ball/Jackson/? for Butler/George in a Love-Wiggins type deal makes sense. If not, stay the course and enjoy blue chip prospects developing in a winning environment.

[mr. dee]

If this team went on to take Cavs on 6-7 games or beat them on ECF, free agents will come no matter what the trade circumstances are. Trading the picks or not for an established player will not affect the free agency. Our and other team's  playoff run will.

[Celtics4ever]

If this team went on to take Cavs on 6-7 games or beat them on ECF, free agents will come no matter what the trade circumstances ar

Do you think they will come if we don't win?

[Phantom255x]

I think this summer we don't sign a max FA and don't make a trade. We use the cap space to renegotiate ITs contract, bring back KO and use the MLE or RE to sign a rotation big.

 A lot depends on how this core competes in the playoffs. Unlike others I'm not concerned by the rebounding 'woes' we have, I think we can make a decent run and it'll convince Ainge to stick with our core and grow organically

That could be another option + drafting Fultz or Jackson.

I think our two major needs are #2 scorer and rebounding.

Our rebounding moves may not be as dire as people think, but in the playoffs we certainly need a big who can neutralize the likes of Thompson, as well as grab key rebounds late in close games.

[Phantom255x]

There are some definite parallels, TP.

One that wasn't mentioned is that Jerry Reinsdorf owns both the Bulls and the White Sox.

Oh wow I didn't realize that. TP for that tidbit.

[Phantom255x]

If this team went on to take Cavs on 6-7 games or beat them on ECF, free agents will come no matter what the trade circumstances ar

Do you think they will come if we don't win?

It's possible. If the Warriors won last year would KD join them?

I think Hayward or Griffin IF they have a first round exit and see BOS taking it to 6-7 would at least consider it more. Can't hurt either way.

[Phantom255x]

The Dombrowski-mentality has definitely been the preferred route here. I prefer to keep the prospects (if they're the level of Smart, Brown, Fultz/Ball/Jackson) and develop them in this environment. It makes more sense in the NBA than the MLB, but never to allow impatience cause an overpay.

If the Cs get a Hayward/Griffin to commit this summer, trading Fultz/Ball/Jackson/? for Butler/George in a Love-Wiggins type deal makes sense. If not, stay the course and enjoy blue chip prospects developing in a winning environment.

Yeah I don't really like how Dombrowski came in and in less than 2 years practically sold the entire farm (okay, exaggeration, but he traded away A LOT). Didn't work for Detroit so hopefully it results in 1 World Series in the next 3-4 years for BOS.

The problem with the PG13/Butler part is if you did sign Hayward or Griffin, you would have to trade away 2017 Nets Pick, Bradley AND Crowder *at least* for either (to make it all work under the cap).

That's great starting lineup, but our depth and bench are compromised, and so is our size. We will have Horford, Zizic, then who?

[BitterJim]

The Dombrowski-mentality has definitely been the preferred route here. I prefer to keep the prospects (if they're the level of Smart, Brown, Fultz/Ball/Jackson) and develop them in this environment. It makes more sense in the NBA than the MLB, but never to allow impatience cause an overpay.

If the Cs get a Hayward/Griffin to commit this summer, trading Fultz/Ball/Jackson/? for Butler/George in a Love-Wiggins type deal makes sense. If not, stay the course and enjoy blue chip prospects developing in a winning environment.

Yeah I don't really like how Dombrowski came in and in less than 2 years practically sold the entire farm (okay, exaggeration, but he traded away A LOT). Didn't work for Detroit so hopefully it results in 1 World Series in the next 3-4 years for BOS.

The problem with the PG13/Butler part is if you did sign Hayward or Griffin, you would have to trade away 2017 Nets Pick, Bradley AND Crowder *at least* for either (to make it all work under the cap).

That's great starting lineup, but our depth and bench are compromised, and so is our size. We will have Horford, Zizic, then who?

...no you wouldn't.  As long as you sign the free agent before finalizing the trade (so agree in principle, but don't make the trade until later) and use the pick's contract in the trade (like with the Love/Wiggins trade), you can do it with just Bradley/2017 pick/minor filler (like Jackson).  Obviously it depends on where the pick lands, but even if it's #4 AB+pick 4 salary+Jackson works for Butler