Will Embiid not be eligible for ROY?

[celticsclay]

With the strange news that Embiid will be missing at least 2 more games with a bone bruise (this is becoming weird) and in light of him missing 9 of the last 11 games on top of many missed games earlier, I was wondering if he will still be eligible for ROY?

I couldn't find a concrete answer on eligibility but it looks like for being considered a leading scorer for a rookie for example, one must play in 58 games.

With this injury news he will have played in a maximum of 31 out of 53 games approaching the all star game with continued plans to rest him on back to backs whenever he is healthy. It seems like the maximum he could really end up playing is about 50 games. Can he still win the award with 50 games played?

If we see Brown continue to shine in Bradley's absence perhaps he can surpass Dario Saric (10 and 6, 36% shooting and looking wiped) and Brogdan? Murray has been coming on lately along with Ingram also.

[celticsclay]

Well TP if anyone can find a concrete answer on this. Thanks in advance.

[fairweatherfan]

Well TP if anyone can find a concrete answer on this. Thanks in advance.

Closest thing I can find - the league says Julius Randle was ineligible for ROY last year because he played 13 minutes the year before. Your rookie year is the first year you log playing time in a regular-season game.  The extension of that - if 13 minutes made Randle ineligible in Year 2, then he was eligible in Year 1. So every rookie should be eligible for Rookie of the Year, no matter how little they play.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/16/9558069/julius-randle-los-angeles-lakers-nba-rookie-of-the-year-ineligible

[Roy H.]

I don't think there's any minimum criteria.  If you've never played in the NBA (regardless of when you were drafted), you're eligible.

The one similar example I can think of was Bill Walton winning MVP despite only playing in 58 games.

[mef730]

29 games and other goodies, according to stats.nba.com

http://stats.nba.com/help/statistical_minimums.html

Asterisks indicate 1/2 of the NBA regular stats is necessary.

Mike

[celticsclay]

I don't think there's any minimum criteria.

The one similar example I can think of was Bill Walton winning MVP despite only playing in 58 games.

Hmm interesting. I guess the eligibility only comes in for leading the league in a given statistic. That being said that raise a new argument. It appears that he could only appear in 45-50 games especially if he does not return before the all-star game. Do you think he should win that at his current production over someone like Brogdon if he ends up at 10, 5 and 3 in 78 games or Saric at 10 and 6 in 75 games? It would seem kind of weird to give it to a guy if he plays 30-35 less games than other players.

[bdm860]

29 games and other goodies, according to stats.nba.com

http://stats.nba.com/help/statistical_minimums.html

Asterisks indicate 1/2 of the NBA regular stats is necessary.

Mike

That's to appear on the NBA leader boards and to get recognition in the NBA record books for leading the league in whatever.  Award voting is different.  We have the Bill Walton example from Roy, but that was in the 70's.  In more modern times (and non-lockout years) we also have  Brandon Roy who played 57 games in '07 and Ewing who played 50 in '86 winning ROY.

I believe I read somewhere in the past that there isn't much criteria for these awards and is largely left up to the discretion of the voters.  One reason why there's always so much debate about "what MVP really means," because they just hand out the ballots and say vote for whoever. 

Another interesting tidbit from this wide open method is it causes some discrepancies, like for All-NBA you could vote LeBron as a G, F, or C if you wanted and were a voter.  This open interpretation of the rules may have actually cost Crowder a spot on the All-Defensive team last year.

[saltlover]

I don't think there's any minimum criteria.

The one similar example I can think of was Bill Walton winning MVP despite only playing in 58 games.

Hmm interesting. I guess the eligibility only comes in for leading the league in a given statistic. That being said that raise a new argument. It appears that he could only appear in 45-50 games especially if he does not return before the all-star game. Do you think he should win that at his current production over someone like Brogdon if he ends up at 10, 5 and 3 in 78 games or Saric at 10 and 6 in 75 games? It would seem kind of weird to give it to a guy if he plays 30-35 less games than other players.

I think he'll need to play about half the Sixers remaining games.  If he disappears for most of February and March, voters may start to look elsewhere, especially if a new rookie sensation steps up.  But the NBA has helped his cause by naming him the rookie of the month in January despite playing in only 9 games.

[jpotter33]

I've read where a couple of 76ers writers and fans think that there's more to this mysterious bone bruise injury than they're letting on. I've seen three suggestions: 1) he's actually much more seriously injured than we thought; 2) it's a stealth tanking move after rising up the draft board too fast; and 3) it's a way to solve the Okafor/Noel trade situation before he gets back.

I doubt it's number one, but I could see either of the latter two possibilities being a possibility.

[mahcussmaht]

I've read where a couple of 76ers writers and fans think that there's more to this mysterious bone bruise injury than they're letting on. I've seen three suggestions: 1) he's actually much more seriously injured than we thought; 2) it's a stealth tanking move after rising up the draft board too fast; and 3) it's a way to solve the Okafor/Noel trade situation before he gets back.

I doubt it's number one, but I could see either of the latter two possibilities being a possibility.

2 and 3.   They have handled him like a Fabergé egg this season and for good reason.  I'd give up our entire team to get that guy.  He is dominant.  He put up 32/7/4/2/3 days after his bone bruise so it's not like he can't play right now.  They will hold him out until after the all-star break or trade deadline.  This gives them a chance to showcase Okafor and Noel, but also tank their pick.   They were trying to trade Okafor + the best of the 76er/Kings pick for Jimmy Butler.  The Bulls like Okafor.  Philadelphia sees Jimmy Butler as a great 3rd option behind Embiid and Simmons.  Philadelphia started winning games and made Chicago nervous.  The concern is that they will stop sand bagging it with Embiid, unleash Simmons, and with Butler on board they will play themselves into the playoffs and ruin the pick.  Chicago wants them to include the Laker pick as well.  Philadelphia insists that either they or the Kings will finish towards the bottom so Chicago shouldn't be concerned.   These next couple weeks sitting Embiid will help put the pick in a hole and let teams take a hard look at Okafor, Noel and Holmes.   If the Kings finally trade Cousins we will probably see Butler moved to Philadelphia, because it will ensure the Kings will stay outside the playoff race.   But we probably will not see Cousins traded as long as the threat of a rapid Philadelphia improvement remains in play.   The Kings don't want to move Cousins, bottom out, and then end up swapping picks with a triumphant Philadelphia team that snuck into the playoffs.  If they miss the playoffs the best case scenario for the Kings is for both their team and Philadelphia to stay in the bottom 10 so they get a top 10 pick.

The funny thing is that if the Bulls send Butler to Philadelphia for the best of the 76er/Kings pick, they basically will get the Kings pick no matter what.  Chicago already gets the Kings pick if it falls outside the top 10.   If the Kings fell below Philadelphia they would get the Kings pick.  There's a weird situation here, because Chicago is actually rooting for Chicago to finish outside the bottom 10.  They get the Kings pick if it falls outside the top 10, but if it ends up top 10, they get a 2nd rounder instead.   So that puts Chicago in a weird position, because if they take Okafor and the best of the 76er/Kings, they will be rooting for the Kings to move Cousins and bottom out.  But if they don't do that trade, they will be rooting for the Kings to finish outside the bottom 10 (pick goes to Chicago if it's 11-30).  The Kings could still decide to keep Cousins.  There then might be a scenario where Philadelphia rallies into the playoffs (pick #15+) and the Kings stay outside the bottom 10.  In which case, Chicago would end up getting the Kings pick and the 76ers pick.  Getting both picks would be a nice consolation prize to missing out on a top 10 pick, but Chicago would still feel better about this if they also got the Lakers pick from Philadelphia.

[celticsclay]

I've read where a couple of 76ers writers and fans think that there's more to this mysterious bone bruise injury than they're letting on. I've seen three suggestions: 1) he's actually much more seriously injured than we thought; 2) it's a stealth tanking move after rising up the draft board too fast; and 3) it's a way to solve the Okafor/Noel trade situation before he gets back.

I doubt it's number one, but I could see either of the latter two possibilities being a possibility.

I don't think number 3 is working at all. I am not sure what is up with Noel but he is certainly not helping his value by playing lots of minutes right now. He has been getting abused on defense and aside from a few performances he has not been showing up on the boards.

On the plus  side his shooting looks much improved in a small sample size.

Okafor lowers his trade value just about every time he plays cause he is getting annihilated on the defensive end and has had truly woeful rebounding performances.

Not to mention they are losing every game after they briefly got the fans excited.

[celticsclay]

I've read where a couple of 76ers writers and fans think that there's more to this mysterious bone bruise injury than they're letting on. I've seen three suggestions: 1) he's actually much more seriously injured than we thought; 2) it's a stealth tanking move after rising up the draft board too fast; and 3) it's a way to solve the Okafor/Noel trade situation before he gets back.

I doubt it's number one, but I could see either of the latter two possibilities being a possibility.

2 and 3.   They have handled him like a Fabergé egg this season and for good reason.  I'd give up our entire team to get that guy.  He is dominant.  He put up 32/7/4/2/3 days after his bone bruise so it's not like he can't play right now.  They will hold him out until after the all-star break or trade deadline.  This gives them a chance to showcase Okafor and Noel, but also tank their pick.   They were trying to trade Okafor + the best of the 76er/Kings pick for Jimmy Butler.  The Bulls like Okafor.  Philadelphia sees Jimmy Butler as a great 3rd option behind Embiid and Simmons.  Philadelphia started winning games and made Chicago nervous.  The concern is that they will stop sand bagging it with Embiid, unleash Simmons, and with Butler on board they will play themselves into the playoffs and ruin the pick.  Chicago wants them to include the Laker pick as well.  Philadelphia insists that either they or the Kings will finish towards the bottom so Chicago shouldn't be concerned.   These next couple weeks sitting Embiid will help put the pick in a hole and let teams take a hard look at Okafor, Noel and Holmes.   If the Kings finally trade Cousins we will probably see Butler moved to Philadelphia, because it will ensure the Kings will stay outside the playoff race.   But we probably will not see Cousins traded as long as the threat of a rapid Philadelphia improvement remains in play.   The Kings don't want to move Cousins, bottom out, and then end up swapping picks with a triumphant Philadelphia team that snuck into the playoffs.  If they miss the playoffs the best case scenario for the Kings is for both their team and Philadelphia to stay in the bottom 10 so they get a top 10 pick.

The funny thing is that if the Bulls send Butler to Philadelphia for the best of the 76er/Kings pick, they basically will get the Kings pick no matter what.  Chicago already gets the Kings pick if it falls outside the top 10.   If the Kings fell below Philadelphia they would get the Kings pick.  There's a weird situation here, because Chicago is actually rooting for Chicago to finish outside the bottom 10.  They get the Kings pick if it falls outside the top 10, but if it ends up top 10, they get a 2nd rounder instead.   So that puts Chicago in a weird position, because if they take Okafor and the best of the 76er/Kings, they will be rooting for the Kings to move Cousins and bottom out.  But if they don't do that trade, they will be rooting for the Kings to finish outside the Top 10.  The Kings could still decide to keep Cousins.  There then might be a scenario where Philadelphia rallies into the playoffs (pick #15+) and the Kings stay outside the bottom 10.  In which case, Chicago would end up getting the Kings pick and the 76ers pick.  Getting both picks would be a nice consolation prize to missing out on a top 10 pick, but Chicago would still feel better about this if they also got the Lakers pick from Philadelphia.

This is completely laughable as a trade idea. The trade floated by 76ers beat writers was Okafor for Denzel Valentine. You think the Bulls are trading Jimmy Butler for the 4th-10th pick in a draft?
That is insane and at odds with anything that has been written about what Chicago wants.  How can you really belief this?

[Ilikesports17]

I've read where a couple of 76ers writers and fans think that there's more to this mysterious bone bruise injury than they're letting on. I've seen three suggestions: 1) he's actually much more seriously injured than we thought; 2) it's a stealth tanking move after rising up the draft board too fast; and 3) it's a way to solve the Okafor/Noel trade situation before he gets back.

I doubt it's number one, but I could see either of the latter two possibilities being a possibility.

2 and 3.   They have handled him like a Fabergé egg this season and for good reason.  I'd give up our entire team to get that guy.  He is dominant.  He put up 32/7/4/2/3 days after his bone bruise so it's not like he can't play right now.  They will hold him out until after the all-star break or trade deadline.  This gives them a chance to showcase Okafor and Noel, but also tank their pick.   They were trying to trade Okafor + the best of the 76er/Kings pick for Jimmy Butler.  The Bulls like Okafor.  Philadelphia sees Jimmy Butler as a great 3rd option behind Embiid and Simmons.  Philadelphia started winning games and made Chicago nervous.  The concern is that they will stop sand bagging it with Embiid, unleash Simmons, and with Butler on board they will play themselves into the playoffs and ruin the pick.  Chicago wants them to include the Laker pick as well.  Philadelphia insists that either they or the Kings will finish towards the bottom so Chicago shouldn't be concerned.   These next couple weeks sitting Embiid will help put the pick in a hole and let teams take a hard look at Okafor, Noel and Holmes.   If the Kings finally trade Cousins we will probably see Butler moved to Philadelphia, because it will ensure the Kings will stay outside the playoff race.   But we probably will not see Cousins traded as long as the threat of a rapid Philadelphia improvement remains in play.   The Kings don't want to move Cousins, bottom out, and then end up swapping picks with a triumphant Philadelphia team that snuck into the playoffs.  If they miss the playoffs the best case scenario for the Kings is for both their team and Philadelphia to stay in the bottom 10 so they get a top 10 pick.

The funny thing is that if the Bulls send Butler to Philadelphia for the best of the 76er/Kings pick, they basically will get the Kings pick no matter what.  Chicago already gets the Kings pick if it falls outside the top 10.   If the Kings fell below Philadelphia they would get the Kings pick.  There's a weird situation here, because Chicago is actually rooting for Chicago to finish outside the bottom 10.  They get the Kings pick if it falls outside the top 10, but if it ends up top 10, they get a 2nd rounder instead.   So that puts Chicago in a weird position, because if they take Okafor and the best of the 76er/Kings, they will be rooting for the Kings to move Cousins and bottom out.  But if they don't do that trade, they will be rooting for the Kings to finish outside the Top 10.  The Kings could still decide to keep Cousins.  There then might be a scenario where Philadelphia rallies into the playoffs (pick #15+) and the Kings stay outside the bottom 10.  In which case, Chicago would end up getting the Kings pick and the 76ers pick.  Getting both picks would be a nice consolation prize to missing out on a top 10 pick, but Chicago would still feel better about this if they also got the Lakers pick from Philadelphia.

This is completely laughable as a trade idea. The trade floated by 76ers beat writers was Okafor for Denzel Valentine. You think the Bulls are trading Jimmy Butler for the 4th-10th pick in a draft?
That is insane and at odds with anything that has been written about what Chicago wants.  How can you really belief this?

Also, the idea that Ben Simmons is likely to be be better than Jimmy Butler is a pretty big stretch.

In fact all the insider stuff on trades seemed pretty farfetched.

[celticsclay]

I've read where a couple of 76ers writers and fans think that there's more to this mysterious bone bruise injury than they're letting on. I've seen three suggestions: 1) he's actually much more seriously injured than we thought; 2) it's a stealth tanking move after rising up the draft board too fast; and 3) it's a way to solve the Okafor/Noel trade situation before he gets back.

I doubt it's number one, but I could see either of the latter two possibilities being a possibility.

2 and 3.   They have handled him like a Fabergé egg this season and for good reason.  I'd give up our entire team to get that guy.  He is dominant.  He put up 32/7/4/2/3 days after his bone bruise so it's not like he can't play right now.  They will hold him out until after the all-star break or trade deadline.  This gives them a chance to showcase Okafor and Noel, but also tank their pick.   They were trying to trade Okafor + the best of the 76er/Kings pick for Jimmy Butler.  The Bulls like Okafor.  Philadelphia sees Jimmy Butler as a great 3rd option behind Embiid and Simmons.  Philadelphia started winning games and made Chicago nervous.  The concern is that they will stop sand bagging it with Embiid, unleash Simmons, and with Butler on board they will play themselves into the playoffs and ruin the pick.  Chicago wants them to include the Laker pick as well.  Philadelphia insists that either they or the Kings will finish towards the bottom so Chicago shouldn't be concerned.   These next couple weeks sitting Embiid will help put the pick in a hole and let teams take a hard look at Okafor, Noel and Holmes.   If the Kings finally trade Cousins we will probably see Butler moved to Philadelphia, because it will ensure the Kings will stay outside the playoff race.   But we probably will not see Cousins traded as long as the threat of a rapid Philadelphia improvement remains in play.   The Kings don't want to move Cousins, bottom out, and then end up swapping picks with a triumphant Philadelphia team that snuck into the playoffs.  If they miss the playoffs the best case scenario for the Kings is for both their team and Philadelphia to stay in the bottom 10 so they get a top 10 pick.

The funny thing is that if the Bulls send Butler to Philadelphia for the best of the 76er/Kings pick, they basically will get the Kings pick no matter what.  Chicago already gets the Kings pick if it falls outside the top 10.   If the Kings fell below Philadelphia they would get the Kings pick.  There's a weird situation here, because Chicago is actually rooting for Chicago to finish outside the bottom 10.  They get the Kings pick if it falls outside the top 10, but if it ends up top 10, they get a 2nd rounder instead.   So that puts Chicago in a weird position, because if they take Okafor and the best of the 76er/Kings, they will be rooting for the Kings to move Cousins and bottom out.  But if they don't do that trade, they will be rooting for the Kings to finish outside the Top 10.  The Kings could still decide to keep Cousins.  There then might be a scenario where Philadelphia rallies into the playoffs (pick #15+) and the Kings stay outside the bottom 10.  In which case, Chicago would end up getting the Kings pick and the 76ers pick.  Getting both picks would be a nice consolation prize to missing out on a top 10 pick, but Chicago would still feel better about this if they also got the Lakers pick from Philadelphia.

This is completely laughable as a trade idea. The trade floated by 76ers beat writers was Okafor for Denzel Valentine. You think the Bulls are trading Jimmy Butler for Okafor and the 4th-10th pick in a draft?
That is insane and at odds with anything that has been written about what Chicago wants.  How can you really belief this?

Also, the idea that Ben Simmons is likely to be be better than Jimmy Butler is a pretty big stretch.

In fact all the insider stuff on trades seemed pretty farfetched.