What's wrong with today's franchise players?

[mr. dee]

When you look at the young stars today, they would look really impressive as their stat sheets imply. But their team record are exact opposites. You'd expect that they will gradually improve year by year and have at least respectable record in the near future, especially with lottery picks in their team's arsenal. They end up disappointing instead.

It's like their flashy stats doesn't have impact on the team. Sure, they win some games, but not enough to take them to playoffs. Players who instantly impacts winning like Embiid now seems like a rare breed these days.

Meanwhile, teams without superstars are having more success than most of the teams with one. Just look at the Hawks, Raptors, Jazz and Grizzlies. Even our own Celtics is more team-oriented than a superstar-focused. Even guys like IT, Kawhi and Curry are more of a product of a system than a sheer individual talent.

Even with terrible coaching, you should expect some fight to them and have respectable record. I mean, Lebron with Mike Brown and bunch of scrubs won 66 games. Larry Bird and David Robinson instantly transforming lottery teams into 50 win teams.

Guys like Cousins, Wiggins and Davis on the other hand, have disappointing teams. And it's not like they didn't have decent players on their roster.

[e4sym0de]

It is very hard to move from a loosing culture to a winning one. Loosing demotivates and spreads negativity while winning rewards you for your effort which motivates you to put effort in something again. Winning cultures have great veterans and leadership while those bottom teams getting the 1st pick mostly have a big leadership void. Also, beeing in a good team means you have higher competition overall and you always adapt to the level surrounding you to a certain degree. Thats why tanking sucks so much. Look at Philly, they have been sucking for years and now they are a 0.5 team for some time, because they have finally discovered some positive winners attitude. Only a few players can make that shift on their own (KG, LBJ). It needs true greatness.

[LGC88]

You should listen to KG and everything he said in Area 21.
He explains what it takes to be a leader, sacrifice, make everyone accountable to one another.
A lot of good principles that are getting lost little by little with new generations that are more spoon fed in society.
It's funny that I was thinking about that during the second half of the game vs the Lakers.
LA came very motivated and look like they wanted this game more than we do. After half time they got a tough stretch and never recover. They didn't have the strength to bounce back and play together. A lot of immature iso play or force shots. Lack discipline and fight spirit when it matters.
Another example is Celtics vs Minny. Remember we were completely dominated, it was a massacre. How can they let the Cs came back? And they did that many times with other teams.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Nothing's wrong with them, the guys you are talking about have terrible surrounding casts. And your surrounding cast matters more now than it used to.

[rayallen_35_24]

most are crybaby's....

[mr. dee]

Nothing's wrong with them, the guys you are talking about have terrible surrounding casts. And your surrounding cast matters more now than it used to.

I already mentioned Lebron's team. Replace him with any of these young guys and that 09-10 Cavs will hit lottery.

Minny have more individual talent than the Celtics.

[chambers]

their teams suck.

If they get help they'll be fine.

Just like KG in Minny. Just like Pierce in Boston.

Like Wade when Shaq left.

Lebron couldn't get past the Celtics on his own.

Does Jordan win any championships without Pippen? Does Kobe win any without Gasol or Shaq? Unlikely.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

their teams suck.

If they get help they'll be fine.

Just like KG in Minny. Just like Pierce in Boston.

Like Wade when Shaq left.

Lebron couldn't get past the Celtics on his own.


Does Jordan win any championships without Pippen? Does Kobe win any without Gasol or Shaq? Unlikely.

don't think he mentioned anything about winning it all.

[SHAQATTACK]

Under paid and appreciated

[Roy H.]

I think with some of them, the question is more "what's wrong with today's front offices?"  Some of the young stars play on truly incompetent franchises.

Some franchises have no clue. Sacramento, New Orleans. Others have embraced a losing culture with little leadership, like Philly and the Lakers.

Minnesota seems to be the team that is building the "right way", but even with building blocks, coaching and good drafting, they're a long way from winning. It goes to show just how hard winning is.

[Who]

They are babied and badly coached. They are not given enough responsibility. Not being shown how to be leaders.

Anthony Davis for example. It is absolutely ridiculous how long it took for him to be made the starting center. It is ridiculous how slow the team has been to charge him with being their defensive leader and anchor. To be a vocal leader defensively. Same with Towns. Both guys being played as PFs in an effort to reduce responsibility / avoid leadership. Not developing necessary skills for either player to be a dominant defensive center which both players are perfectly capable of being.

Andrew Wiggins is another one who isn't being pushed hard enough on defense. Who isn't having it hammered into his head how important it is for him to use his size and athleticism on the backboards. How much he can impact the game with rebounds. With defense.

Too much focus on developing scoring skills and not enough focus on developing team skills.

[Chief]

I dont like their can't beat them then join them attitudes.

Jordan trained all summer to build his body to beat the Pistons. It took a few hard seasons but he got there.

He definitely didn't ask to be trade to Detroit.

[KGs Knee]

They are babied and badly coached. They are not given enough responsibility. Not being shown how to be leaders.

Anthony Davis for example. It is absolutely ridiculous how long it took for him to be made the starting center. It is ridiculous how slow the team has been to charge him with being their defensive leader and anchor. To be a vocal leader defensively. Same with Towns. Both guys being played as PFs in an effort to reduce responsibility / avoid leadership. Not developing necessary skills for either player to be a dominant defensive center which both players are perfectly capable of being.

Andrew Wiggins is another one who isn't being pushed hard enough on defense. Who isn't having it hammered into his head how important it is for him to use his size and athleticism on the backboards. How much he can impact the game with rebounds. With defense.

Too much focus on developing scoring skills and not enough focus on developing team skills.

Most of today's superstars don't want to play defense.  A few of them do, but none of the absolute best scorers are any good on defense really (Curry, Westbrook, Harden, Thomas).  Then again, the rules are somewhat setup against guards playing good defense compared to past generations.

Bottom line is, the NBA wanted more offense, set the rules up to achieve this, and are now seeing both the benefits and pitfalls.

[jdz101]

They are babied and badly coached. They are not given enough responsibility. Not being shown how to be leaders.

Andrew Wiggins is another one who isn't being pushed hard enough on defense. Who isn't having it hammered into his head how important it is for him to use his size and athleticism on the backboards. How much he can impact the game with rebounds. With defense.

Too much focus on developing scoring skills and not enough focus on developing team skills.

I dunno...if wiggins wanted to show any effort and use his athleticism to play defense or rebound the basketball, Thibs would be the guy that could push him to do that. Sometimes players are just brats that think they're above doing the little things.

[staticcc]

Teams across the league without superstars are now much better than the teams without superstars back in the day.