Kelly Olynyk

[JBcat]

My view is they won't get any better until Olynyk and Zeller are replaced with more athletic, defensive players up front. They take too big a drop defensively when either is in the lineup. When both are in together, it's a disaster. IT's presence is enough of a defensive liability.

The dilemma is Ainge drafted Olynyk, moving up to get him with the Spurs (Pop knows better),and Stevens is in love with Zeller from their Indiana connect. He is also allergic to rebounders. 

We did not trade up with the Spurs.

It was the Mavs... but can someone tell me what gives with Stevens preference on bigs? We had a soft, almost ethereal presence in our frontcourt and its been a staple since he came aboard. Danny never went to free agency for a scrapper, if Stevens wants to preach versatility someone needs to retort with "oh, that thing your current bigs don't bring every night?" Like, where's the beef dude?

I'm surprised by this persistent myth, and I'm going to speak very frankly.

It's probably not worth getting into a thing, but let one fact stand for many:

Kelly is currently seventh in the league in charges drawn, PER GAME, in only 21 minutes played. Zeller, incidentally, is 18th. Those guys aren't shot-blockers, but they're protecting the rim in the most physical way you can.  That's among all NBA players, on all teams.

To remind us, drawing a charge means: getting in front of a 240-lb athlete, moving at high speed, who is about to put his knee into your solar plexus and knock you on your coccyx. A few seconds later you're going to  get your ass up off the floor, run down to the other end, and set a screen on him.

Yep, and plenty of people on here have showed defensive metrics that he is above average on that end.

My biggest gripe with Kelly is his passiveness on offense.   He was certainly aggressive last night, and he's had a few decent games lately.  Maybe his shoulder is finally feeling better, and he's rounding into form.  Last night 9-11 FG and 4-5 3PG is unrealistic to expect going forward, but 5-11 and 2-5 I would be happy with.

Maybe last night will be sort of a breakout game for him, but with his non aggressive personality I'm not counting on it.  Part of the issue maybe why he doesn't get more playing time is both Horford and Kelly are subpar rebounders, and maybe not the best pairing all the time.

[ThePaintedArea]

Coach Nick has a pretty in-depth recent argument for why Olynyk should get more minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJdtTfbtzLI

I think that it's worth quibbling with some of what he says, and he gets away from the team defense a little too soon - but there's some good thinking here.

[Alleyoopster]

Coach Nick has a pretty in-depth recent argument for why Olynyk should get more minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJdtTfbtzLI

I think that it's worth quibbling with some of what he says, and he gets away from the team defense a little too soon - but there's some good thinking here.

TP: thanks for sharing the link.

(For those who haven't seen the video-commentary it's 8 minutes long. Even at that, I thought it was well worth watching.)

[2short]

Sick of these threads.

Boy i second that
Remember when all the other teams passed on karl malone?  Who knows how some of these players will develop or not.  Great for the bucks in drafting the greek.  Think of how many guys on different teams went higher and are not playing at his level.
Kelly is a celtic, an x factor on offense, eye test is team has played better with him on the floor all year.
Kelly is a celtic. (Repeat) support your team .  As I've said before on here if celtic blog was around in bird era I'd love to see how many would complain about different guys then

[hpantazo]

Sick of these threads.

Boy i second that
Remember when all the other teams passed on karl malone?  Who knows how some of these players will develop or not.  Great for the bucks in drafting the greek.  Think of how many guys on different teams went higher and are not playing at his level.
Kelly is a celtic, an x factor on offense, eye test is team has played better with him on the floor all year.
Kelly is a celtic. (Repeat) support your team .  As I've said before on here if celtic blog was around in bird era I'd love to see how many would complain about different guys then

There would have been countless threads saying that "we will never win a title with Bird, he's too slow and unathletic, he is not a true superstar, and the celtics are about winning championships, not about watching overrated white guys score"

There would also be a hundred threads about how we should trade Bird and tank for Sam Bowie.

[LGC88]

Sick of these threads.

Boy i second that
Remember when all the other teams passed on karl malone?  Who knows how some of these players will develop or not.  Great for the bucks in drafting the greek.  Think of how many guys on different teams went higher and are not playing at his level.
Kelly is a celtic, an x factor on offense, eye test is team has played better with him on the floor all year.
Kelly is a celtic. (Repeat) support your team .  As I've said before on here if celtic blog was around in bird era I'd love to see how many would complain about different guys then

There would have been countless threads saying that "we will never win a title with Bird, he's too slow and unathletic, he is not a true superstar, and the celtics are about winning championships, not about watching overrated white guys score"

There would also be a hundred threads about how we should trade Bird and tank for Sam Bowie.

TP
You forgot the "Fire Red, he draft the white guy with broken fingers, what type of coach do that? The white guy is blonde on top of that..."

[Smartacus]

Sick of these threads.

Boy i second that
Remember when all the other teams passed on karl malone?  Who knows how some of these players will develop or not.  Great for the bucks in drafting the greek.  Think of how many guys on different teams went higher and are not playing at his level.
Kelly is a celtic, an x factor on offense, eye test is team has played better with him on the floor all year.
Kelly is a celtic. (Repeat) support your team .  As I've said before on here if celtic blog was around in bird era I'd love to see how many would complain about different guys then

There would have been countless threads saying that "we will never win a title with Bird, he's too slow and unathletic, he is not a true superstar, and the celtics are about winning championships, not about watching overrated white guys score"

There would also be a hundred threads about how we should trade Bird and tank for Sam Bowie.

TP
You forgot the "Fire Red, he draft the white guy with broken fingers, what type of coach do that? The white guy is blonde on top of that..."

Red traded an all star player Joe Barry Carroll for what?! That stiff Robert Parish and some guy named McHale? Two unproven kids who play the same position. He's seriously fallen off what he was. Clearly Bill Russell was the reason they won all those championship.

Fire Red!!!!

[flybono]

The player has slow feet. He is slow. It is a fact. Defensively he might have gotten better. When you were already a terrible defensive player, please define better?

[Smartacus]

The player has slow feet. He is slow. It is a fact. Defensively he might have gotten better. When you were already a terrible defensive player, please define better?

Well even though you speak your opinions as if they are are fact, Kelly being slow is as debatable as Kelly being a poor defensive player.

I wouldn't describe Kelly as quick or explosive by any stretch of the imagination but he's also by no means a slow lumbering 7 footer either. Kelly may not be a full court rim runner, but in the half court he's more than capable of pump faking, blowing past his man, and taking 3-4 long strides to bound his way to the basket before the defense has time to collapse.

If a fast short player gets to the basket in the same amount of time that it takes Kelly to long leg lurch his way to the rack who care's how "fast" his feet are?

Kelly is a terrible defensive player? Why, because he looks lost when he get's caught giving up awkward and 1's where he can be seen plummeting to the ground as his man beats his chest and flexes? At least he was in position to defend the shot in the first place.

What about all the shots he's stops before their taken by keeping strong defensive positioning? Kelly's a space eater with a knack for knowing where to be to disrupt the flow of the other team's offense. I see a pretty [darn] good defensive player and the stats back it up.

Kelly is currently ranked a respectable 23'rd of 69 eligible centers in ESPN's Defensive RPM stat ( https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9 ) ahead of guys like Drummond, Embiid, Biyombo, Al Horford, Hassan Whiteside, and Marc Gasol. While that's not to say that those are bad defensive players, it's just as ridiculous to conclude that KO is a bad defender when looking at who he's measured up against.

What Kelly Olynyk does on the court works and IMO we're fortunate to have him.

[Bobshot]

When Olynyk had that good Summer league rookie year, I thought he could be a good point forward--much like Bird, though not at that level. He was slim and pretty mobile. Brought the ball up a lot and passed or shot very well.

Then it seems they decided to make him a center. Muscle him up and put him in the middle. He slowed down, lost mobility, and hasn't been very good in that role. If he slimmed down again, he might be a decent stretch 3. But I think he's out of position at the 4-5.

Posters have widely varied opinions about him, but I don't see the kid I first saw in the Summer league. Maybe he just doesn't have the ball as much, with their backcourt getting most of the touches.

[ThePaintedArea]

The player has slow feet. He is slow. It is a fact. Defensively he might have gotten better. When you were already a terrible defensive player, please define better?

Kelly is currently ranked a respectable 23'rd of 69 eligible centers in ESPN's Defensive RPM stat ( https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9 ) ...

By that stat he was significantly better last year: he finished 44th in the league - all players, all positions, and 32nd for combined RPM.  This season he started badly (post-injury?), and has steadily moved up. Last season, too, he steadily improved (pre-injury) as the season went on.

[hwangjini_1]

The player has slow feet. He is slow. It is a fact. Defensively he might have gotten better. When you were already a terrible defensive player, please define better?

wait. are you describing olly or bird? 

[myselfonline]

The player has slow feet. He is slow. It is a fact. Defensively he might have gotten better. When you were already a terrible defensive player, please define better?

Well even though you speak your opinions as if they are are fact, Kelly being slow is as debatable as Kelly being a poor defensive player.

I wouldn't describe Kelly as quick or explosive by any stretch of the imagination but he's also by no means a slow lumbering 7 footer either. Kelly may not be a full court rim runner, but in the half court he's more than capable of pump faking, blowing past his man, and taking 3-4 long strides to bound his way to the basket before the defense has time to collapse.

If a fast short player gets to the basket in the same amount of time that it takes Kelly to long leg lurch his way to the rack who care's how "fast" his feet are?

Kelly is a terrible defensive player? Why, because he looks lost when he get's caught giving up awkward and 1's where he can be seen plummeting to the ground as his man beats his chest and flexes? At least he was in position to defend the shot in the first place.

What about all the shots he's stops before their taken by keeping strong defensive positioning? Kelly's a space eater with a knack for knowing where to be to disrupt the flow of the other team's offense. I see a pretty [darn] good defensive player and the stats back it up.

Kelly is currently ranked a respectable 23'rd of 69 eligible centers in ESPN's Defensive RPM stat ( https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9 ) ahead of guys like Drummond, Embiid, Biyombo, Al Horford, Hassan Whiteside, and Marc Gasol. While that's not to say that those are bad defensive players, it's just as ridiculous to conclude that KO is a bad defender when looking at who he's measured up against.

What Kelly Olynyk does on the court works and IMO we're fortunate to have him.

I feel a lot of KO's fouls are due to him reaching in instead of bodying up or trying to disrupt the shot. When he reaches in and misses, the opposing player either blows past him or throws the shot up. This makes him look like he is slow and clumsy on defense. I don't know if it's something he needs to work on per se, because it works and he does get steals.

One thing I did notice this season is that he gives players a lot of room. Too much room to the point where the players can rise up and shoot. This makes it so he has to lunge back to the defenders to block a shot, which causes him to fall for a lot of pump fakes. He's not very mobile, but hes not slow to a point where he has to give the opposing player that much room. The coaching staff should work with him to find an optimum distance to back off a player.

[ThePaintedArea]

Nice bump in KO's defensive rebound % this year: 16.2 last year to 18.9, pretty substantial.  Coach no doubt appreciates this response to what - let's face it - is a crisis.

Kelly now leads the team in defensive rebound %.

Acknowledgment is due to the other Celtics who've stepped their games up on the defensive glass:

Avery Bradley:
7.3 -> 18.7 (that is awesome).

Terry Rozier!:
13.5 -> 17.2 (a big jump, though last season's numbers are from a tiny sample size; in any case that's a huge number for a point guard)

Gerald Green:
9.7 -> 15.9

Jae Crowder:
14.2 -> 15.6

That's it for the rotation players who've upped their games in this area.

[Vermont Green]

Olynyk was a 13th pick.  Now Kobe Bryant and Karl Malone were #13 picks but other than that, Olynyk is probably average or maybe slightly above the historical norm for that draft slot.  If you look at the analysis by Nylon Calculus:

 http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/06/17/freelance-friday-expected-value-in-the-nba-draft/

Olynyk is pretty much average for a #13 pick.  The pick was no home run, the pick was no colossal failure.  It was a very average pick for #13.  I continue to be surprised by the level of consternation people have with this pick.