How can Super Teams continue to build while others "can't afford stars"?

[saltlover]

Ok- so GSW effectively ran a tight ship, outside of their 3 all stars last year. They got rid of Bogut and passed on a Barnes resign, clearing space up for Durant?

Basically - any team that was not over the cap last year essentially had enough space for a max contract this past offseason due to the massive cap increase. GSW had a once in a lifetime opportunity and took advantage of it. This especially screwed teams like the Cs who had managed their books responsibly. Durant's choices would have been much more limited and the Cs would have looked a lot more appealing. We would not have signed Horford, but who cares, we would have had Durant.

As the cap settles out over the next couple of years and players sign contracts proportional to the new cap, teams will once again be right up against or over the cap. This is where a good GM like Danny will once again be a benefit.


EDIT: BitterJim just explained what I did. TP to him 

GS doesn't have Bird rights on Durant though, so they could have some issues this summer.

True, but they can give him a new deal with a 20% raise which he could then opt out of again next year to sign a max deal.  He'd make $31.8 million this year, about $4 million under the max.  Considering that his deal signed in 2018 can have 7.5% raises instead of 4.5%, he'll make up some of the difference.

[BitterJim]

Ok- so GSW effectively ran a tight ship, outside of their 3 all stars last year. They got rid of Bogut and passed on a Barnes resign, clearing space up for Durant?

Basically - any team that was not over the cap last year essentially had enough space for a max contract this past offseason due to the massive cap increase. GSW had a once in a lifetime opportunity and took advantage of it. This especially screwed teams like the Cs who had managed their books responsibly. Durant's choices would have been much more limited and the Cs would have looked a lot more appealing. We would not have signed Horford, but who cares, we would have had Durant.

As the cap settles out over the next couple of years and players sign contracts proportional to the new cap, teams will once again be right up against or over the cap. This is where a good GM like Danny will once again be a benefit.


EDIT: BitterJim just explained what I did. TP to him 

GS doesn't have Bird rights on Durant though, so they could have some issues this summer.

True, but they can give him a new deal with a 20% raise which he could then opt out of again next year to sign a max deal.  He'd make $31.8 million this year, about $4 million under the max.  Considering that his deal signed in 2018 can have 7.5% raises instead of 4.5%, he'll make up some of the difference.

That will be with Early Bird rights, though, so it's a max of 4 years (rather than 5 with full bird rights)

[Moranis]

Ok- so GSW effectively ran a tight ship, outside of their 3 all stars last year. They got rid of Bogut and passed on a Barnes resign, clearing space up for Durant?

Basically - any team that was not over the cap last year essentially had enough space for a max contract this past offseason due to the massive cap increase. GSW had a once in a lifetime opportunity and took advantage of it. This especially screwed teams like the Cs who had managed their books responsibly. Durant's choices would have been much more limited and the Cs would have looked a lot more appealing. We would not have signed Horford, but who cares, we would have had Durant.

As the cap settles out over the next couple of years and players sign contracts proportional to the new cap, teams will once again be right up against or over the cap. This is where a good GM like Danny will once again be a benefit.


EDIT: BitterJim just explained what I did. TP to him 

GS doesn't have Bird rights on Durant though, so they could have some issues this summer.

True, but they can give him a new deal with a 20% raise which he could then opt out of again next year to sign a max deal.  He'd make $31.8 million this year, about $4 million under the max.  Considering that his deal signed in 2018 can have 7.5% raises instead of 4.5%, he'll make up some of the difference.

To give Durant that much they will lose AI, Livingston, etc. and I don't think he can opt out since isn't that early Bird rights.  That was the point I was trying to make.  They really will be a 4 man show going forward.

[BitterJim]

I remember reading that people thought that Klay Thompson is basically untouchable? Is this true? If GS wants to keep Draymond, will they really be able to pay 4 players $100m-$120m per year?

They have 2.5 more years on Klay's contract (at ~$17, $18, and $19 million for each respective year), and 3.5 more on Draymond's (at ~$15.5, $16.5, $17.5, and $18.5 million for each respective year), so they won't need to worry about them for a little while. When Klay's does run out in 2019, the owners will have to decide if it's worth it to give him the max and incur the associated luxury tax from their new payroll or just let him go.  If they're still contenders or favorites at that point, though, they're all but guaranteed to pay the tax and keep him

[Clench123]

Thanks for asking this because I've wondered about it myself. 

[BitterJim]

Ok- so GSW effectively ran a tight ship, outside of their 3 all stars last year. They got rid of Bogut and passed on a Barnes resign, clearing space up for Durant?

Basically - any team that was not over the cap last year essentially had enough space for a max contract this past offseason due to the massive cap increase. GSW had a once in a lifetime opportunity and took advantage of it. This especially screwed teams like the Cs who had managed their books responsibly. Durant's choices would have been much more limited and the Cs would have looked a lot more appealing. We would not have signed Horford, but who cares, we would have had Durant.

As the cap settles out over the next couple of years and players sign contracts proportional to the new cap, teams will once again be right up against or over the cap. This is where a good GM like Danny will once again be a benefit.


EDIT: BitterJim just explained what I did. TP to him 

GS doesn't have Bird rights on Durant though, so they could have some issues this summer.

True, but they can give him a new deal with a 20% raise which he could then opt out of again next year to sign a max deal.  He'd make $31.8 million this year, about $4 million under the max.  Considering that his deal signed in 2018 can have 7.5% raises instead of 4.5%, he'll make up some of the difference.

To give Durant that much they will lose AI, Livingston, etc. and I don't think he can opt out since isn't that early Bird rights.  That was the point I was trying to make.  They really will be a 4 man show going forward.

They don't have to lose them to sign Durant for more (as long as they're willing to pay the luxury tax) using the Non-Bird Exception (also called the Veteran Free Agent Exception), which as saltlover was saying lets them go over the cap to sign him to up to 120% of his current salary

There's nothing to stop him from opting out this offseason if he wants to

[ConnerHenry]

I keep thinking about how this will apply to Philly in a couple years. They'll have a so many players looking for max/big deals within a couple of years that they can't afford to sign them all.

Embiid, Noel, Okafor, Saric, Simmons and the picks they get this year - you're looking at top picks wanting top dollar. Due to logjams at the same positions, you're looking at guys either walking or being traded for pennies on the dollar.

Like Noel this year.

[Boris Badenov]

I keep thinking about how this will apply to Philly in a couple years. They'll have a so many players looking for max/big deals within a couple of years that they can't afford to sign them all.

Embiid, Noel, Okafor, Saric, Simmons and the picks they get this year - you're looking at top picks wanting top dollar. Due to logjams at the same positions, you're looking at guys either walking or being traded for pennies on the dollar.

Like Noel this year.

They have managed that problem very effectively to date. Of course, they do it by demoralizing and mis-using their players to the point that they are no longer worth max contracts, but still. Problem solved.

[mctyson]

Please excuse my ignorance of the new CBA and legal framework of the NBA....

How can Golden State afford 4 of the top 20 players in the NBA? How can Cleveland afford 3 of the top 30, and still pay guys like JR Smith and Tristan Thompson?

I've read over and over how the Celtics need to be smart with future contracts (despite having a ton of young guys on cheap deals). I've read about how Horford isn't worth the money he's getting paid. I've read about how certain trade rumors are unrealistic because of salaries. I've read that the 5th leading scorer in the NBA is going to price himself out of Boston....

Why do some believe that GS and Cleveland can continue to maintain talent for the next 5 years, but then have reservations about how the Celtics should spend money?

What within the CBA allows certain teams to afford many of the league's top players, while other teams aren't afforded that same opportunity?

The NBA has always been a "soft cap" league where there are few restrictions on you resigning your players.  There was very little preventing super teams before.

[mctyson]

Mike Dunleavy Jr has not report. He does not think the 4th team in the east is a contender. Yes, Atlanta is not goind to win this year. But this proves your point about Super Teams. Mike Dunleavy Jr only wants to go to SA or GSW so he has a shot. SAD

Yeah things like that shouldn't happen. He's a player under contract, if he doesn't want to report he shouldn't be paid imo.

Seriously, it's not even like he signed with the Cavs as a free agent.  He was traded there in July from Chicago.  In terms of competitiveness, Atlanta is still an upgrade from the Bulls.

Atlanta is under no requirement to appease Dunleavy's demand.  He takes up a roster spot, that is all. 

[mctyson]

I remember reading that people thought that Klay Thompson is basically untouchable? Is this true? If GS wants to keep Draymond, will they really be able to pay 4 players $100m-$120m per year?

Yes. They can resign these guys over the threshold and pay the luxury tax on them.  That's in the power of the owner and if you are not cheap and in good financial shape, why not do that?

The only challenge GSW will have is that they will continue to lose bench guys.  That's what draft picks, vet minimums, and exceptions are for.

[green_bballers13]

Please excuse my ignorance of the new CBA and legal framework of the NBA....

How can Golden State afford 4 of the top 20 players in the NBA? How can Cleveland afford 3 of the top 30, and still pay guys like JR Smith and Tristan Thompson?

I've read over and over how the Celtics need to be smart with future contracts (despite having a ton of young guys on cheap deals). I've read about how Horford isn't worth the money he's getting paid. I've read about how certain trade rumors are unrealistic because of salaries. I've read that the 5th leading scorer in the NBA is going to price himself out of Boston....

Why do some believe that GS and Cleveland can continue to maintain talent for the next 5 years, but then have reservations about how the Celtics should spend money?

What within the CBA allows certain teams to afford many of the league's top players, while other teams aren't afforded that same opportunity?

The NBA has always been a "soft cap" league where there are few restrictions on you resigning your players.  There was very little preventing super teams before.

This seems to be the common answer.

In this case, why would the Celtics ever trade one of their Brooklyn picks? If they hit on one or both, they are essentially afforded the ability to pay for them for the rest of their career, regardless of what they do with the rest of their team. I'm obviously using a little hyperbole there, but still.....

Golden State's masterful plan came into effect after hitting on 3 draft picks (Curry, Klay, Green).

I wouldn't trade one BKN pick for Boogie straight up. If he wants to come to Boston, he'll sign as a FA. I don't think its a good idea to trade for a superstar that will take up valuable cap space, when he might only stay a couple of years. If we were as good as GS and CLE and this would make us better than them, I would say trade one or two picks.

[kozlodoev]

In this case, why would the Celtics ever trade one of their Brooklyn picks? If they hit on one or both, they are essentially afforded the ability to pay for them for the rest of their career, regardless of what they do with the rest of their team. I'm obviously using a little hyperbole there, but still.....

Because having Kevin Garnett is unconditionally better than the right to draft Jeff Green, figuratively speaking. And ultimately, if someone doesn't want to stay, you can't force them.

[green_bballers13]

In this case, why would the Celtics ever trade one of their Brooklyn picks? If they hit on one or both, they are essentially afforded the ability to pay for them for the rest of their career, regardless of what they do with the rest of their team. I'm obviously using a little hyperbole there, but still.....

Because having Kevin Garnett is unconditionally better than the right to draft Jeff Green, figuratively speaking. And ultimately, if someone doesn't want to stay, you can't force them.

I even think that the league has changed since KG's Celtics, though. Right now you have two potential champions: GSW and CLE. The Celtics have to beat both of those teams to win a ring. CLE is benefitting greatly by the fact that Lebron is from Akron. GSW is benefitting b/c of their unbelievable drafting (GM luck or talent- either way, they got the players they needed).

We can say eff it, there's no way we can win and pull out a Philly strategy. I prefer to try to contend while building for the future. In this regard, I think Danny is executing pretty well (besides his actual drafting, which has been pretty average).

[saltlover]

Mike Dunleavy Jr has not report. He does not think the 4th team in the east is a contender. Yes, Atlanta is not goind to win this year. But this proves your point about Super Teams. Mike Dunleavy Jr only wants to go to SA or GSW so he has a shot. SAD

Yeah things like that shouldn't happen. He's a player under contract, if he doesn't want to report he shouldn't be paid imo.

Seriously, it's not even like he signed with the Cavs as a free agent.  He was traded there in July from Chicago.  In terms of competitiveness, Atlanta is still an upgrade from the Bulls.

Atlanta is under no requirement to appease Dunleavy's demand.  He takes up a roster spot, that is all.

He also has guaranteed money for next season, so they need to work something out.  They're definitely under no requirement to appease, but they also lose cap space over the summer for a guy who's refusing to show up.

EDIT: He's decided to turn up after all.