All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[hwangjini_1]

moranis, if i may, i have long enjoyed your posts and respect much of what you write. but on this one, the best course of action is to move on and not engage further on this topic.

honestly, you won't win or get what you want by continuing. sometimes we take our lumps, learn, and move on to bigger and better things.

[Moranis]

moranis, if i may, i have long enjoyed your posts and respect much of what you write. but on this one, the best course of action is to move on and not engage further on this topic.

honestly, you won't win or get what you want by continuing. sometimes we take our lumps, learn, and move on to bigger and better things.

I just want him to stop hounding me in every thread.  That is all I want.  If he wants to actually comment on a post I make, I have no issue with that, I just want this nonsense to stop, which seems like a pretty reasonable request in the scheme of things.  I mean I don't follow him around constantly pouting off about how he predicted the Lakers were going to make the playoffs this year. 

[celticsclay]

Let's look at this Lakers thing. When they started 9-9 or whatever I was very impressed with how Walton got their young guys to play (randle was looking great). I also was blown away by Louis Williams and nick young having career years. I thought Deng had something left in the tank. But then you know what happened? I was dead wrong. It was fools gold with some lucky wins and in retrospect it is comical how far off I was. I can laugh at how wrong I was on that debate and can move on. You see the difference?

Now if I was on here every year talking up clarkson, nance, Jordan hill, Thomas Robinson, the signing of mosgov etc and every tiny move the lakers make people would call me out on it. Just about every poster on here recognizes you have done this over the years. I agree with others you should take your lumps and move on.

[jdz101]

Anyone making that "Philly closer to a championship than Boston" statement deserves to be called on it in jest when it turns out to be utter crap every year as it illustrates a clear lack of learning from what happened just a season ago.

I get it's technically against forum rules, but when you just see it as banter on an Internet forum and don't take the discussion too seriously, the whole exercise becomes a whole lot more interesting. If we didn't differ in opinion or weren't able to point out the previous flaws in another poster's argument then this would be a pretty boring place.

We're all fans of the same team. There is no need to be so dramatic all the time.

[LGC88]

Wasn't it a time this season where a lot of people here believe Philly will make the playoff this year because they were on a 0.700 pace?
Oh my bad, I guess you all blame it on injury.
So, please, enlighten me, Philly is making playoff next season? And what would be the excuse when they fail to make the playoff again?

I'm puzzled about all this hype with teams with top picks.
At the end of the day, any player have to learn how to win as a team.
Talent will make the difference once they start to win, and not before.
I'm still waiting for the Bucks, Minny, Phoenix, Philly and Lakers.

[slightly biased bias fan]

Wasn't it a time this season where a lot of people here believe Philly will make the playoff this year because they were on a 0.700 pace?
Oh my bad, I guess you all blame it on injury.
So, please, enlighten me, Philly is making playoff next season? And what would be the excuse when they fail to make the playoff again?

I'm puzzled about all this hype with teams with top picks.
At the end of the day, any player have to learn how to win as a team.
Talent will make the difference once they start to win, and not before.
I'm still waiting for the Bucks, Minny, Phoenix, Philly and Lakers.

100% agree, thing that irks me about Philly's tank-a-paloza is Hinkie is going to get credit for getting Philly Embiid, when if it wasn't for Joel getting injured before the draft they would have wound up with Jabari Parker or possibly Gordon given they passed on Porzingis. For having the worst losing record of all time and the worst season of all time and for having half a decade of purposeful losing, nothing is worth that, they have dragged the 76ers name through the mud and if I was a 76ers fan I would be appalled not praising 'the process'.

[Moranis]

Sixers didn't have the worst record of all time.

[slightly biased bias fan]

Analysing 'The Process', if you looking at their available picks for being the worst that they can be, it doesn't pain a portrait of intelligence.

2013 Picks:

Nerlens Noel - only available because of injury, destroyed his confidence and created poor habits by over stocking Centres...result: now gone

Michael Carter-Williams- poor pick period...result: now gone

Players available to them: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kelly Olynyk, Dennis Schröder, Rudy Gobert,

2014 Picks:

Joel Embiid - Franchise talent only available because of injury, missed 2 seasons because of red flags, may never play a full season, created poor habits early on

Dario Šarić - actually good pick but with 12th selection not worth tanking for

Players available to them: Zach LaVine, Nikola Jokić, Jordan Clarkson

2015 Picks:

Jahlil Okafor - Poor pick, poor management of player, created attitude issues...result: tried to trade, role player now gone possible soon.

Players available to them: Kristaps Porziņģis, Myles Turner, Devin Booker

2016 Picks:

Ben Simmons - Finally gets extremely lucky but player misses first season to broken foot


Is destroying your franchises name for a .250% chance at a first pick that may not turn out to be good worth it? Resounding no IMO, you would also think with the money saved on salaries they would put in into the best possible scouts and drafter in the league but it seems they haven't done this.

[tazzmaniac]

Analysing 'The Process', if you looking at their available picks for being the worst that they can be, it doesn't pain a portrait of intelligence.

2013 Picks:

Nerlens Noel - only available because of injury, destroyed his confidence and created poor habits by over stocking Centres...result: now gone

Michael Carter-Williams- poor pick period...result: now gone

Players available to them: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kelly Olynyk, Dennis Schröder, Rudy Gobert,

2014 Picks:

Joel Embiid - Franchise talent only available because of injury, missed 2 seasons because of red flags, may never play a full season, created poor habits early on

Dario Šarić - actually good pick but with 12th selection not worth tanking for

Players available to them: Zach LaVine, Nikola Jokić, Jordan Clarkson

2015 Picks:

Jahlil Okafor - Poor pick, poor management of player, created attitude issues...result: tried to trade, role player now gone possible soon.

Players available to them: Kristaps Porziņģis, Myles Turner, Devin Booker

2016 Picks:

Ben Simmons - Finally gets extremely lucky but player misses first season to broken foot


Is destroying your franchises name for a .250% chance at a first pick that may not turn out to be good worth it? Resounding no IMO, you would also think with the money saved on salaries they would put in into the best possible scouts and drafter in the league but it seems they haven't done this.

The Sixers franchise name isn't destroyed.  Once Embiid showed his talent, he became the story and face of their franchise.  There were already stories that Hinkie's tanking 3 seasons may have been worth it. 

As for the process, you have actually justified it.  Hinkie didn't think it was possible to significantly out draft other GMs.  So the way to maximize the chance of draft success is to increase the quality and quantity of your draft picks which is exactly what he did for the Sixers.  They still have the Lakers 2017/2018 and Kings 2019 picks coming which should both be good picks. 

As I've said before picking MCW over Giannis was a really poor Hinkie decision.  However Ainge traded up to take Olynyk over Giannis which was also a poor decision.  Hinkie realized his mistake  and was able to flip MCW while his value was still high for the Lakers pick. 

Other than MCW I think the Sixers picks were solid.  Many of your "picks available" weren't in consideration where the Sixers were picking and were passed on by many other GMs before they were selected.  Listing Clarkson is just befuddling.  He was a 2nd rounder and he's not even starting for a very bad Lakers team. 

[Vermont Green]

I am holed up due to the blizzard here in Boston and thought I would check in on this thread to see why it remained so active.  I didn't realize there was a throw down of sorts going on.

Let me try to sum it up.  Drafting is like a box of chocolates (to quote Forest Gump).  Sometimes it works out and you draft Durant, Westbrook, and Harden and sometimes you draft Greg Oden or in the worst of all possible outcomes, Len Bias (tragedy far beyond the implications for the team of course).

The Sixers tried to play the game thinking they would get maybe a mix of a few like Harden or Durant and maybe a few that bust.  Embiid was a risky pick, no doubt.  They knew injury was a risk and he missed two seasons and much of the third.  Window is about closed but there is still a slim chance.  Ben Simmons seemed like a lock but he missed a whole season.  That is just bad luck.  Okafor and Noel, seemed like sensible picks, haven't work out (Okafor has a chance still).

As far as how the outcome for Philly impacts what the Celtics have done and may do relative to building through the draft, you don't know whether we will get Durant and Westbrook or Oden and Embiid.  We have enough picks though that unless we are really unlucky, some of them should work out and be foundational players for us.

It is wrong to conclude that you can't build through the draft just because it blew up for Philly.  You can build through the draft, there is no guarantee or course, there is some risk, but that is the hand we have to play right now and at least we didn't have to tank for 5 years to get here.  We still may trade some picks, who knows, I actually think not at this point.

I am excited to see a team of Smart, Brown, Fultz, Zizic, and BKN 2018 in the conference finals in say 2020 while in the meantime, we are a competitive, entertaining team.  And I couldn't care less how things work out for Philly.

[Big333223]

Analysing 'The Process', if you looking at their available picks for being the worst that they can be, it doesn't pain a portrait of intelligence.

2013 Picks:

Nerlens Noel - only available because of injury, destroyed his confidence and created poor habits by over stocking Centres...result: now gone

Michael Carter-Williams- poor pick period...result: now gone

Players available to them: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kelly Olynyk, Dennis Schröder, Rudy Gobert,

2014 Picks:

Joel Embiid - Franchise talent only available because of injury, missed 2 seasons because of red flags, may never play a full season, created poor habits early on

Dario Šarić - actually good pick but with 12th selection not worth tanking for

Players available to them: Zach LaVine, Nikola Jokić, Jordan Clarkson

2015 Picks:

Jahlil Okafor - Poor pick, poor management of player, created attitude issues...result: tried to trade, role player now gone possible soon.

Players available to them: Kristaps Porziņģis, Myles Turner, Devin Booker

2016 Picks:

Ben Simmons - Finally gets extremely lucky but player misses first season to broken foot


Is destroying your franchises name for a .250% chance at a first pick that may not turn out to be good worth it? Resounding no IMO, you would also think with the money saved on salaries they would put in into the best possible scouts and drafter in the league but it seems they haven't done this.

To my mind, this is all an argument for The Process, not against it.

The draft is too much of a crap shoot. Even when you get a high pick, you can still wind up with nothing to show for it for a myriad of reasons (injury, bust, etc.). There's no way to ensure that you'll hit a home run but The Process was meant to ensure that they got as many swings of the bat as possible, increasing their odds of landing someone like Embiid or Simmons (assuming they aren't lost to injury).

I also think we should be careful of conflating critiques of The Process with critiques of the Sixers' ability to draft. Taking Okafor over Porzingis isn't a problem with The Process as a strategy, only with a specific organization's decision making.

[Moranis]

Saric with another solid game as the Sixers nearly took down the Warriors in Cali.  Saric is now averaging 20/8/4.5 in his last 10 games. 

Okafor played well in the game also (22 points in 23 minutes, with 4 blocks and got to the line 7 times).  Luwawu-Cabarrot has quietly put together a decent string of games as well (he was a late 1st round pick this year).

Definitely be interested to see how they use Embiid, Saric, Okafor, and Simmons when (or if) all 4 are healthy. 

[The One]

Saric with another solid game as the Sixers nearly took down the Warriors in Cali.  Saric is now averaging 20/8/4.5 in his last 10 games. 

Okafor played well in the game also (22 points in 23 minutes, with 4 blocks and got to the line 7 times).  Luwawu-Cabarrot has quietly put together a decent string of games as well (he was a late 1st round pick this year).

Definitely be interested to see how they use Embiid, Saric, Okafor, and Simmons when (or if) all 4 are healthy.

Moranis - that's a nice stat line.  If you watched the game, how was Okafor defensively, since that is his biggest weakness?

[slamtheking]

Analysing 'The Process', if you looking at their available picks for being the worst that they can be, it doesn't pain a portrait of intelligence.

2013 Picks:

Nerlens Noel - only available because of injury, destroyed his confidence and created poor habits by over stocking Centres...result: now gone

Michael Carter-Williams- poor pick period...result: now gone

Players available to them: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kelly Olynyk, Dennis Schröder, Rudy Gobert,

2014 Picks:

Joel Embiid - Franchise talent only available because of injury, missed 2 seasons because of red flags, may never play a full season, created poor habits early on

Dario Šarić - actually good pick but with 12th selection not worth tanking for

Players available to them: Zach LaVine, Nikola Jokić, Jordan Clarkson

2015 Picks:

Jahlil Okafor - Poor pick, poor management of player, created attitude issues...result: tried to trade, role player now gone possible soon.

Players available to them: Kristaps Porziņģis, Myles Turner, Devin Booker

2016 Picks:

Ben Simmons - Finally gets extremely lucky but player misses first season to broken foot


Is destroying your franchises name for a .250% chance at a first pick that may not turn out to be good worth it? Resounding no IMO, you would also think with the money saved on salaries they would put in into the best possible scouts and drafter in the league but it seems they haven't done this.

To my mind, this is all an argument for The Process, not against it.

The draft is too much of a crap shoot. Even when you get a high pick, you can still wind up with nothing to show for it for a myriad of reasons (injury, bust, etc.). There's no way to ensure that you'll hit a home run but The Process was meant to ensure that they got as many swings of the bat as possible, increasing their odds of landing someone like Embiid or Simmons (assuming they aren't lost to injury).

I also think we should be careful of conflating critiques of The Process with critiques of the Sixers' ability to draft. Taking Okafor over Porzingis isn't a problem with The Process as a strategy, only with a specific organization's decision making.

"The Process" as you've stated is to have as many swings as possible.  that directly translates into sucking for many years.  That's the problem. 
- The draft is a crapshoot as you've agreed to so there's no guarantee that the high pick you use will be a 'franchise' level talent nor that even if they're a top talent they can stay healthy. 
- by sucking that badly for so long, you alienate your fanbase.  you're only able to retain the fans that are absolute diehards and even then you're still alienating them from supporting 'the process' and buying tickets/merchandise --> less franchise income and less income for the rest of the league that has to play your garbage team.
- by sucking so badly, you're not a draw for any free agent worth signing.  sure, you can get the bottom of the barrel players hanging on in the league or someone with personality/drug/other issues that no other team would touch but those players won't make the team better in the short or longterm (since they're only short signing anyway)
- by sucking so long, you create an atmosphere of losing that has an impact on the players development on your team.  it creates a toxic playing environment that gets the players looking elsewhere to find their success.  Any player dedicated to winning will want to play for a franchise that's trying to win, not lose.  play out the rookie contract and either get the team to trade you because they don't want to invest the money in re-upping your deal or play out the QO and become a UFA (or tell the team you'll only sign the QO so you can leave and force them to trade you to get some value for you)

"The Process" is not a winning proposition or way to run a team.

[Eddie20]

Definitely be interested to see how they use Embiid, Saric, Okafor, and Simmons when (or if) all 4 are healthy.

You interested in something Philly related? Shock.