Author Topic: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act  (Read 19124 times)

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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2017, 11:38:19 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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I think the message is that we're better off waiting for Lebron to retire.

Lol

Cavs ultimately are shooting their future down the drain if you think about it

Once lecrybaby is done, the team wont be that great

Oh yeah for sure, but you can't blame them. They can win multiple championships. East is going to be terrible in 2-3 years though. So that is great for the Celtics.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2017, 11:38:48 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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I think the message is that we're better off waiting for Lebron to retire.

Lol

Cavs ultimately are shooting their future down the drain if you think about it

Once lecrybaby is done, the team wont be that great

We did the same thing by giving up all our assets to get KG and Ray in 2007.  You pretty much have to mortgage your future to win championships
I'm bitter.

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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2017, 11:45:34 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I think the message is that we're better off waiting for Lebron to retire.

Lol

Cavs ultimately are shooting their future down the drain if you think about it

Once lecrybaby is done, the team wont be that great

We did the same thing by giving up all our assets to get KG and Ray in 2007.  You pretty much have to mortgage your future to win championships

Yeah, if you're in clear "win now" mode & are already contending (& winning) championships, then I see no problem mortgaging the future.  Especially with the way CLE is constructed.

Their window is now. Makes all the sense in the world when you're at that level.  Those windows don't come around too often for organizations.  Try & maximize that.



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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2017, 11:46:39 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I think the message is that we're better off waiting for Lebron to retire.

Lol

Cavs ultimately are shooting their future down the drain if you think about it

Once lecrybaby is done, the team wont be that great
That's rather silly.  The Cavs are making a minor move to optimize their chances to win the Championship now.  Giving up a heavily protected future 1st isn't going to have much impact on their future. 

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2017, 11:48:23 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think the Celts' plan, ever since they missed out on Durant, was to do the best they can this year with what they have, barring a superstar becoming available via trade (i.e. Butler or Cousins).

The "time to act" will be this next summer.  If the move doesn't happen this summer, next year's trade deadline will be the last chance before the team has to shell out big bucks just to keep the current group intact.
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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2017, 11:51:54 AM »

Offline footey

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Cavs made the trade thinking about Warriors, not worried about Raps or Celts.

It will be a great move for them.  The future is now for them.

Our future is next year, or the year after. And beyond.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2017, 12:02:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I wonder how many people actually read the article and not just my headline.

First part was about the Cavs, but here is what it said about the Raptors and Celtics.


Now, will Ujiri and Ainge allow the Cavaliers to race further ahead, or will they, like Griffin, strike too?

For Toronto, there’s no debate: action is needed. Despite a trip to the 2016 East finals, two All-Star guards, a 24-11 record and a No. 2 ranked offense, the Raptors are now more two months into the season without a truly impressive victory. Dwane Casey’s team is not only 0-7 against the Cavaliers, Warriors, Spurs and Clippers, but they gave up an average of 116 points in those losses.

Their backcourt firepower is simply insufficient to overcome their matchup problems in the frontcourt. Traditional center Jonas Valanciunas struggles to keep up against small-ball opponents, young bigs Bebe Nogueira and Pascal Siakham aren’t quite ready for primetime, Jared Sullinger still hasn’t touched the court yet this season, and Patrick Patterson can only fill so many minutes. Meaningful improvement will have to come from outside if Toronto hopes to compete with a frontline that includes James, Love and Tristan Thompson. 

But this isn’t simply a matter of positional balancing for the Raptors, this is an organizational crossroads. The past two seasons represent the golden era of the franchise’s history, in no small part because Kyle Lowry is in his prime. Lowry, 30, is headed for a massive pay increase as an unrestricted free agent next summer and then age-related decline not too long after that. This is Toronto’s shot. As the Raptors learned after Vince Carter’s departure, and then again after Chris Bosh’s relocation to South Beach, shots can sometimes take years and years to materialize. The Raptors need only turn to the 2012 Celtics, or the 2014 Pacers, or the 2015 Hawks to realize how quickly and firmly the window for contention can be shut.

To be clear, Toronto isn’t just praying talent lands in its lap. Ujiri is armed with a glut of young wings, headlined by Terrence Ross, and an extra first-round pick.

Boston, meanwhile, is similarly primed for onboarding talent. Last summer, Ainge scored a rare double victory: 1) he added Horford, an All-Star in his prime, and 2) he didn’t have to part with any major assets to do it. At the time, SI.com believed that adding Horford should be viewed as a precursor to whatever happened next. With a cache of young (and expendable) rotation players and too many future draft assets to count, Ainge can reasonably construct attractive trade packages for all but, say, the NBA’s top 15 stars and top-tier young prospects.

Perhaps the urgency is slightly less in Boston than in Toronto, given that Isaiah Thomas is younger than Lowry, the relative youth of the Celtics’ key cast members, and the treasure trove of quality picks that are being hand-delivered from the Nets. Regardless, this is a team and an organization that should be going for it: Brad Stevens has steadily rebuilt the Celtics, Thomas has made another big leap this season, and Horford, at 30 and with some major injury issues in his past, is ready to compete now.

After back-to-back empty trips to the postseason, Boston finds itself this year in much the same boat as Toronto last year: The honeymoon period is over and it’s time to win a series or shamefully don the “Disappointment” label. Like the Raptors, the Celtics are 0-5 against the Cavaliers, Warriors and Spurs, conceding an average of 115 points in the five losses. Like the Raptors, the Celtics could use some frontcourt help: Boston ranks near the bottom in rebounding rate, and its defense has regressed this season in part due to injury absences to key players like Horford and Jae Crowder.       

There’s one obvious answer for both Toronto and Boston, Atlanta’s Paul Millsap, and surely other options will emerge as the trade deadline gets closer. Millsap, a three-time All-Star and 2016 All-Defensive selection, would fit in with virtually any contender, given that he can score without dominating the ball, defend multiple positions, and function as either a power forward or a small ball five. In Toronto, he would plug Casey’s biggest positional hole and give the Raptors a much more intriguing small look. In Boston, he could reprise his pairing with Horford, giving Stevens a big upgrade at the four and giving Thomas another proven auxiliary scoring option.

With Korver gone, Millsap is the last remaining starter from the 2015 Hawks and it makes little sense to hang around given management’s ongoing retooling efforts. At 31, he is undoubtedly seeking one final major pay day next summer, but he would be foolish to tie himself to a Hawks franchise dumped Teague to avoid paying him, couldn’t convince Horford to re-sign, settled for Dwight Howard, and shopped Millsap last summer. That’s not just writing on the wall, that’s sprawling graffiti.

To be clear, though, for the Raptors and the Celtics this has become about more than than simply taking part in the inevitable Millsap auction. Indeed, the next six weeks or so are about whether Ujiri and Ainge are willing to roll the dice and improve rosters that clearly need improving. The Korver trade is the latest reminder that Cleveland is fully committed, whether it be luxury tax dollars or future assets, to defending its title. No doubt, Cleveland will look to address its other holes, perhaps an extra ball-handler, and Golden State will respond in kind, especially once buyout season rolls around.

There’s been plenty of frustrated chatter this season around the idea that the NBA is too top-heavy and that its two Superteams are headed for a third straight Finals showdown, and understandably so. But at least some of that venom should be saved for executives like Ujiri and Ainge, should they decide to sit on their hands and assets, playing for a future that may not come.

The Cavaliers and Warriors have both worked tirelessly to tinker with and perfect their rosters, even after both won titles and even though such efforts often come at great cost. It would be borderline infuriating if their arms race remains a two-team affair.   
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Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2017, 12:10:23 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I think the Celts' plan, ever since they missed out on Durant, was to do the best they can this year with what they have, barring a superstar becoming available via trade (i.e. Butler or Cousins).

The "time to act" will be this next summer.  If the move doesn't happen this summer, next year's trade deadline will be the last chance before the team has to shell out big bucks just to keep the current group intact.

If the move doesn't happen this summer, cap space should be used to extend IT and AB now at rates that allow us to keep everyone (this should be possible).  Then hope for continued internal growth from players including Brown, Smart, the Brooklyn pick, Olynyk (who I think is still recovering from his shoulder surgery -- recall how bad Bradley was the season after he got work done on his shoulders), and hope that one of Zizic and Yab pans out.  The trajectory of the team is still up, if 1-2 of the young guys take a big step forward (Brown is my top candidate to do this), the slope of that trajectory could steepen in a hurry.

I don't think extending IT and AB and resigning KO precludes us from making a move at any time in the future when a star becomes available.  We will still have a multitude of prospects, picks, and rotation players with tradable salaries.  We have a very long window.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2017, 12:12:57 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I think the message is that we're better off waiting for Lebron to retire.

"I sure wish Red Auerbach had given up like the above," Wilt Chamberlain.

LOL.
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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2017, 12:14:18 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I think the Celts' plan, ever since they missed out on Durant, was to do the best they can this year with what they have, barring a superstar becoming available via trade (i.e. Butler or Cousins).

The "time to act" will be this next summer.  If the move doesn't happen this summer, next year's trade deadline will be the last chance before the team has to shell out big bucks just to keep the current group intact.

If the move doesn't happen this summer, cap space should be used to extend IT and AB now at rates that allow us to keep everyone (this should be possible).  Then hope for continued internal growth from players including Brown, Smart, the Brooklyn pick, Olynyk (who I think is still recovering from his shoulder surgery -- recall how bad Bradley was the season after he got work done on his shoulders), and hope that one of Zizic and Yab pans out.  The trajectory of the team is still up, if 1-2 of the young guys take a big step forward (Brown is my top candidate to do this), the slope of that trajectory could steepen in a hurry.

I don't think extending IT and AB and resigning KO precludes us from making a move at any time in the future when a star becomes available.  We will still have a multitude of prospects, picks, and rotation players with tradable salaries.  We have a very long window.

That's assuming they're interested in wasting bigger money on the pillow-soft Olynyk, who is swiftly heading for Sullinger status in my book - let him walk.
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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2017, 12:20:29 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I think the author is too hung up in the "now".  It's also a bit selfish wishful thinking that he doesn't want it to be an arms race between GSW & CLE. Lastly, are we to expect TOR or BOS to react to the Korver deal as the watershed moment that "something must be done"?

Not quite sure this season represents an organizational crossroads, especially in Boston's case.  2017-18/Summer '18 represents much more of a crossroads when you start looking at the construction of the roster. 

Sure, Danny could just go ahead and make some cosmetic changes to the fringes of the roster.  Certainly doesn't need to go in big splash mode right now.

I don't think Danny is necessarily worried about some imaginary "disappointment" label.  This organization is far from plateauing at the moment.


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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2017, 12:28:20 PM »

Offline mgent

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It's reinforces the message that we need to get better....

It's not a message that we need to act.

Any move any team makes shouldn't make us act any differently than we would have regardless.

We don't need to settle on anything just for the sake of making a move.
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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2017, 12:32:10 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
There’s been plenty of frustrated chatter this season around the idea that the NBA is too top-heavy and that its two Superteams are headed for a third straight Finals showdown, and understandably so. But at least some of that venom should be saved for executives like Ujiri and Ainge, should they decide to sit on their hands and assets, playing for a future that may not come.

Is there a player outside of DMC who would significantly close that gap?

The Celtics are obviously trying to improve the team, but in a smart way. Wasting assets just to get out of the first round is foolish.


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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2017, 12:32:41 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Quote
There’s been plenty of frustrated chatter this season around the idea that the NBA is too top-heavy and that its two Superteams are headed for a third straight Finals showdown, and understandably so. But at least some of that venom should be saved for executives like Ujiri and Ainge, should they decide to sit on their hands and assets, playing for a future that may not come.

Is there a player outside of DMC who would significantly close that gap?

The Celtics are obviously trying to improve the team, but in a smart way. Wasting assets just to get out of the first round is foolish.

Nailed it.


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Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2017, 12:37:17 PM »

Offline oldtype

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Blake Griffin
Demarcus Cousins
Jimmy Butler
Paul George
Paul Milsap

Here's a list of top-20 players that could be even conceivably available within the next season.  There's no single player there (or in the entire NBA probably) that would make us or Toronto competitive with Cleveland or GS.  In fact, there's probably no combination of two players on that list that would make us favorites against either team.

Thomas - Bradley - George - Horford - Cousins

Does that make us favorites against Cleveland? Golden State? I don't think so.


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