Humorous Trade Analysis of IT, NBA.com

[trickybilly]

I was just searching for what the hell Phoenix got for trading away their top-3 protected first rounder from the Lakers to Philly (Knight and Kendall Marshall as a three way sending Carter-Williams to Milwaukee - HA!!!!), when I stumbled across this "Instant analysis" of the IT for Marcus Thornton deal. If anyone has more, it would be good to put up in this thread for a giggle...

Instant Analysis: Thomas seemed like an odd fit from the start in a crowded Suns backcourt rotation. He'll get to run the show in Boston, though it's unclear what kind of show it will be with the dearth of veteran talent around to help tote the load. Say hello to the seemingly never ending rebuilding project that is the Celtics these days, Mr. Thomas.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

That writer has to be a Lakers' fan.

Weren't we like 2 years into the rebuild at that point? That comment is ridiculous.

[gift]

That writer has to be a Lakers' fan.

Weren't we like 2 years into the rebuild at that point? That comment is ridiculous.

Not even 2 years.

[Moranis]

I see nothing wrong with that analysis

[trickybilly]

Also this from RealGM (who gave Danny an "A", and McDonough a "B"..

Pretty accurate really, except for the first paragraph. You can see the buds of his offensive explosion in those stats near the bottom:

Thomas won’t be mistaken for an All-Star, but his arrival signifies the beginning of roster cohesion in Boston.
Stevens now has a promising three-guard rotation of Marcus Smart, Avery Bradley and Thomas. Smart has played well as of late and is growing as a rookie, Bradley is one of the best on-ball defenders in basketball and Thomas is both tenacious and a proven scorer.

Smart and Thomas can share ball-handling duties, moving Evan Turner to his rightful position on the wing. There will also be more minutes for James Young with Thornton gone. Young, the 17th pick last June and turning 20 in April, has played just 164 minutes this season.

Thomas uses a lot of possessions, a career 23.8% usage rate, but is more efficient than you might expect. He has a 57.9 TS% this season, hits 39.1% of his threes and gets to the foul line often (.421 FTAs per FGA). Over his three-plus seasons, he has a +6.4 net rating per 100 possessions.

Stevens wants Thomas shooting threes and drawing fouls on penetration because he’s been a poor mid-range shooter this season. He’s hitting just 37.7% of attempts from 10-16 feet, considerably lower than his career mark of 41.9%. Thomas knows his strengths, with mid-range jumpers representing just 10.3% of his shot attempts through 262 games as a professional.

Thomas was actually more effective than former Phoenix teammate Dragic this season. He rated better in PER (19.6 to 16.6), TS% (.579 to .573), AST% (22.8 to 19.5), TO% (12.8 to 13.4) and Net Rating (+5 to even).

In order for Ainge to complete a sustainable rebuild of the Celtics, he has to use all of the picks he has accumulated in a perfect mix of trades and selections. Using what is expected to be a late 2016 first-round pick (and a spare roster part) to add Thomas on an affordable long-term deal is a near-perfect start.

[BDeCosta26]

I see nothing wrong with that analysis

Of course you don't.

[fairweatherfan]

That writer has to be a Lakers' fan.

Weren't we like 2 years into the rebuild at that point? That comment is ridiculous.

Not even 2 years.

We were 2.5 years from the conference finals and 1.5 years from the blow up trade.

Maybe the writer was responding to the recent Rondo trade, which a lot of pundits saw as a "re-blow up" deal but obviously wasn't in hindsight.

[Ilikesports17]

I see nothing wrong with that analysis

if we were forever rebuilding 1.5 years into the rebuild then what in Gods name is Philly? Sacramento? Phoenix?

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

That writer has to be a Lakers' fan.

Weren't we like 2 years into the rebuild at that point? That comment is ridiculous.

Not even 2 years.

We were 2.5 years from the conference finals and 1.5 years from the blow up trade.

Maybe the writer was responding to the recent Rondo trade, which a lot of pundits saw as a "re-blow up" deal but obviously wasn't in hindsight.

Hyperbole for clicks imo

[Moranis]

I see nothing wrong with that analysis

if we were forever rebuilding 1.5 years into the rebuild then what in Gods name is Philly? Sacramento? Phoenix?

He was talking about all of the seemingly lateral moves that Boston was doing at the time.  He obviously underestimated how good Thomas was going to be, but he expected Thomas to be nothing more than a lateral move that wouldn't push Boston forward.  That was a pretty common thought at the time of the trade and it seemed like an odd move for a team to trade a first for a journeymanish PG.  Obviously Thomas far exceeded everyone's expectations. 

[TheSundanceKid]

I see nothing wrong with that analysis

if we were forever rebuilding 1.5 years into the rebuild then what in Gods name is Philly? Sacramento? Phoenix?

He was talking about all of the seemingly lateral moves that Boston was doing at the time.  He obviously underestimated how good Thomas was going to be, but he expected Thomas to be nothing more than a lateral move that wouldn't push Boston forward.  That was a pretty common thought at the time of the trade and it seemed like an odd move for a team to trade a first for a journeymanish PG.  Obviously Thomas far exceeded everyone's expectations.

What were the 'seemingly lateral moves'? Every move DA made was either with the purpose of gathering assets (CLE-BRK-BOS deal, Rondo deal, Green deal, Wright deal) or looked to help the team improve (Thomas deal, Prince for Gigi and JJ deal).

I don't think anyone thought Marcus Thornton for Isaiah Thomas was a lateral move, Thomas was clearly the better player in that deal, hence us adding a pick. Phoenix moved him because of the turmoil that had been brewing the last few months.

[Moranis]

I see nothing wrong with that analysis

if we were forever rebuilding 1.5 years into the rebuild then what in Gods name is Philly? Sacramento? Phoenix?

He was talking about all of the seemingly lateral moves that Boston was doing at the time.  He obviously underestimated how good Thomas was going to be, but he expected Thomas to be nothing more than a lateral move that wouldn't push Boston forward.  That was a pretty common thought at the time of the trade and it seemed like an odd move for a team to trade a first for a journeymanish PG.  Obviously Thomas far exceeded everyone's expectations.

What were the 'seemingly lateral moves'? Every move DA made was either with the purpose of gathering assets (CLE-BRK-BOS deal, Rondo deal, Green deal, Wright deal) or looked to help the team improve (Thomas deal, Prince for Gigi and JJ deal).

I don't think anyone thought Marcus Thornton for Isaiah Thomas was a lateral move, Thomas was clearly the better player in that deal, hence us adding a pick. Phoenix moved him because of the turmoil that had been brewing the last few months.

Lateral in the sense as not a full rebuild but not a real contender type move.  Obviously Thomas was better than Thornton, but I don't think anyone thought Thomas would become the all star offensive force that he has become. 

Boston had a lot of those non-needle moving type trades after the PP/KG trade.  Crawford/Brooks being moved for Anthony and a bunch of 2nds.  Using the trade exception to acquire Zeller and a 1st.  Trading Humphries for a 2nd.  Trading Bogans and some 2nd's for a collection of players and 2nd's that didn't yield much.  The Rondo trade followed closely by the Green trade.  Then trading Nelson for Robinson and immediately cutting Robinson.  On the same day of the Thomas trade Boston also moved Prince for Datome/Jerekbo.  Those type moves really continued until Horford was signed last summer. 

That is what the analysis was talking about.  Clearly Thomas ended up worth far more than Thornton and a late 1st that he was traded for, but at the time it just seemed to be another in the long line of non-needle moving trades the Celtics made just to make moves and to enter rebuilding.  Then Thomas played so well that Boston made the playoffs and ended up with Rozier instead of Winslow, which after doing it again forced Ainge to really try and win now which led to Horford.

[BitterJim]

I see nothing wrong with that analysis

if we were forever rebuilding 1.5 years into the rebuild then what in Gods name is Philly? Sacramento? Phoenix?

He was talking about all of the seemingly lateral moves that Boston was doing at the time.  He obviously underestimated how good Thomas was going to be, but he expected Thomas to be nothing more than a lateral move that wouldn't push Boston forward.  That was a pretty common thought at the time of the trade and it seemed like an odd move for a team to trade a first for a journeymanish PG.  Obviously Thomas far exceeded everyone's expectations.

What were the 'seemingly lateral moves'? Every move DA made was either with the purpose of gathering assets (CLE-BRK-BOS deal, Rondo deal, Green deal, Wright deal) or looked to help the team improve (Thomas deal, Prince for Gigi and JJ deal).

I don't think anyone thought Marcus Thornton for Isaiah Thomas was a lateral move, Thomas was clearly the better player in that deal, hence us adding a pick. Phoenix moved him because of the turmoil that had been brewing the last few months.

Lateral in the sense as not a full rebuild but not a real contender type move.  Obviously Thomas was better than Thornton, but I don't think anyone thought Thomas would become the all star offensive force that he has become. 

Boston had a lot of those non-needle moving type trades after the PP/KG trade.  Crawford/Brooks being moved for Anthony and a bunch of 2nds.  Using the trade exception to acquire Zeller and a 1st.  Trading Humphries for a 2nd.  Trading Bogans and some 2nd's for a collection of players and 2nd's that didn't yield much.  The Rondo trade followed closely by the Green trade.  Then trading Nelson for Robinson and immediately cutting Robinson.  On the same day of the Thomas trade Boston also moved Prince for Datome/Jerekbo.  Those type moves really continued until Horford was signed last summer. 

That is what the analysis was talking about.  Clearly Thomas ended up worth far more than Thornton and a late 1st that he was traded for, but at the time it just seemed to be another in the long line of non-needle moving trades the Celtics made just to make moves and to enter rebuilding.  Then Thomas played so well that Boston made the playoffs and ended up with Rozier instead of Winslow, which after doing it again forced Ainge to really try and win now which led to Horford.

I'd agree that the bolded moves were lateral moves (give nothing and get nothing), but the Zeller, Rondo, Green, and Thomas trades weren't (the Humphries deal was a sign and trade so it doesn't really count as a deal) .  In the Zeller deal, we gained 2 okay players and a first rounder for nothing, which is a clear gain of assets for us.  In the Rondo and Green deals, we traded our 2 best players for future assets, which made us worse in the short term and were supposed to make the teams we traded with better.  In the Thomas deal, we traded a first and a borderline rotation player for a good young PG, which even at the time of the trade was a clear win by us and would make us better. 

Defining any non-franchise altering moves as "lateral moves" doesn't make any sense - that implies that you'd be in the same position whether you made the trade or not (ie similar players for similar players, like the Bogans deal), but some of the deals you listed (including the Thomas deal) had a clear talent disparity.  Those aren't "lateral moves"

[Phantom255x]

"We got Isaiah Thomas for Marcus Thornton and a late First Rounder (Skal Labissiere)"

Like seriously, can you say that phrase or even think about it with a straight face.

I know this has been beaten to the brush, but wow that's just amazing. We got an all-star, a potential Top-6 MVP candidate this season (he obviously won't win but should get few votes), and likely a key #2 or #3 on this future championship team... (Lets not forget he's the fifth best scorer in the LEAGUE this season as well)

All for Marcus Thornton and a late Cavaliers First Rounder (#28 - aka Labissiere). No one could have imagined IT would be this good for us, but he has, and while the Nets deal is probably Ainge's biggest heist, I'd say IT comes in very close at second.

But again, you have to laugh or smile seeing the IT trade that has worked brilliantly for us, and what we gave up to acquire him. Without IT we're probably spending more years tanking/rebuilding, maybe even now.

Makes me wonder why we can't get even more value for a Top-2 Nets Pick nowadays 

[gift]

"We got Isaiah Thomas for Marcus Thornton and a late First Rounder (Skal Labissiere)"

Like seriously, can you say that phrase or even think about it with a straight face.

I know this has been beaten to the brush, but wow that's just amazing. We got an all-star, a potential Top-6 MVP candidate this season (he obviously won't win but should get few votes), and likely a key #2 or #3 on this future championship team... (Lets not forget he's the fifth best scorer in the LEAGUE this season as well)

All for Marcus Thornton and a late Cavaliers First Rounder (#28 - aka Labissiere). No one could have imagined IT would be this good for us, but he has, and while the Nets deal is probably Ainge's biggest heist, I'd say IT comes in very close at second.

But again, you have to laugh or smile seeing the IT trade that has worked brilliantly for us, and what we gave up to acquire him. Without IT we're probably spending more years tanking/rebuilding, maybe even now.

Makes me wonder why we can't get even more value for a Top-2 Nets Pick nowadays 

This is why I think it's ridiculous when people accuse Ainge of overvaluing his own players or assets. At some point you have to acknowledge his track record of accumulating assets and cashing them in at the right times, and think that maybe he has a big influence on setting the market in the first place.