George Karl: Sonics Almost Completed a Deal with Chicago for Pippen

[Donoghus]

George Karl has a book out that's generating a lot of buzz (for various reasons; mostly bad).  This is one of the tidbits from the book that is interesting and poses one of those "what if" question in regards to 90s NBA.

Take it with a heavy grain of salt

http://thecomeback.com/nba/george-karl-claims-sonics-almost-completed-an-mj-approved-scottie-pippen-trade-with-bulls.html

The Bulls saw an opportunity. Four days before the draft, Jerry Krause called. The Chicago GM, who’d visited me in Spain, had a proposal: Kemp, Pierce, and our number one for Scottie Pippen. Pippen was the best small forward, or 3, in the league. Nothing he wasn’t good at. During one of Michael’s retirements, Scottie led his team in all five of the main categories—rebounds, scoring, blocks, steals, and assists—so rare that it had only happened once before in NBA history (Dave Cowens, for the Celtics, in 1977-78). But with his running buddy MJ now a baseball player, maybe Pippen was a little disconnected. When I tried to imagine the Sonics without Shawn I knew I’d miss him, but I got pretty excited picturing Gary and Scottie teaming up on a trap; they’d smother opposing guards. But every trade prompts a debate. I was in favor of this one but I wasn’t sure.

So I called Michael. We talked about minor-league baseball, North Carolina basketball, and golf. Then we talked about the big deal on the table. Should we do this?

“Do it,” he said. “Scottie can make your other players better. Kemp can’t.”

So, the day before the draft, we said yes. News of the trade immediately leaked out and onto the KJR airwaves. More anger from the callers, a lot more; our fans loved Shawn. Again, Ackerley listened. That afternoon, he called our draft headquarters in the Sonics locker room. It doesn’t feel right, he told Wally. Better wait. I had the unpleasant job of calling Krause, who was not happy.

While we dragged our feet on draft day, Krause got desperate. He called to tell me the Bulls would drop the demand for our number one pick. He offered a big chunk of money in the next call. Then he called back to double it. Literally minutes before the draft started, Ackerley backed us out of the deal. When I delivered the bad news, Krause dropped f-bombs and called me names. We’d keep Kemp, they’d keep Pippen.

[Roy H.]

The big question: if and when Jordan comes back, how many rings does he win?  If he ends up with 4 or 5 rings, does the gap between he and Lebron close?

[manl_lui]

that is quite interesting, especially if Jordan was on that phone call with George.

I wonder what happens in NBA land if that deal went down and MJ still came back but to play with Kemp vs Gary and Pippen

[Donoghus]

The big question: if and when Jordan comes back, how many rings does he win?  If he ends up with 4 or 5 rings, does the gap between he and Lebron close?

So I'm assuming this proposed trade was in '94, maybe? 

Imagine if both teams still made that '96 Finals.  Pippen v. Jordan. 

Good question about Lebron v. Jordan.  Gap does close.

[Donoghus]

Another alternate timeline to consider.

Does Jordan/Kemp get by Orlando with Penny/Shaq?  If Orlando wins that '96 ECF and goes on to win the Finals, does Shaq stay rather than go to LAL?

[hpantazo]

Interesting. I wonder what year it was and what draft pick it would have been. That could potentially have allowed the Bulls to rebuild on the fly and maintain the dynasty if it was the right pick.

It really is true though, sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

[Roy H.]

Interesting. I wonder what year it was and what draft pick it would have been. That could potentially have allowed the Bulls to rebuild on the fly and maintain the dynasty if it was the right pick.

It really is true though, sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

I'm assuming it was the '94 Draft. Sonics had the 11th pick.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1994.html

Jalen Rose was probably the best player on the board.

[Donoghus]

Interesting. I wonder what year it was and what draft pick it would have been. That could potentially have allowed the Bulls to rebuild on the fly and maintain the dynasty if it was the right pick.

It really is true though, sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

I'm guessing it was summer '94.  Seattle had the 11th pick in that draft and ended up using it on Carlos Rogers.    Middle part of that draft was pretty lackluster at best.  Maybe the Bulls use the pick on Jalen Rose instead (went 13th).

[Donoghus]

Interesting. I wonder what year it was and what draft pick it would have been. That could potentially have allowed the Bulls to rebuild on the fly and maintain the dynasty if it was the right pick.

It really is true though, sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

I'm assuming it was the '94 Draft. Sonics had the 11th pick.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1994.html

Jalen Rose was probably the best player on the board.

Yeah,  maybe at that point, Krause tries to package it with #21 and move up into the top 10.  Jordan's not around at that point so maybe they're able to nab Eddie Jones before the Lakers get him.  Who knows.

[hpantazo]

Interesting. I wonder what year it was and what draft pick it would have been. That could potentially have allowed the Bulls to rebuild on the fly and maintain the dynasty if it was the right pick.

It really is true though, sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

I'm assuming it was the '94 Draft. Sonics had the 11th pick.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1994.html

Jalen Rose was probably the best player on the board.

Wow, yeah, IF they would have drafted Rose, that would have been interesting. Ricky Pierce also had some left in the tank at that time I think, so Kemp, Pierce, and Jaylen Rose for Pippen would not have been a bad deal for the Bulls.

[bdm860]

Another alternate timeline to consider.

Does Jordan/Kemp get by Orlando with Penny/Shaq?  If Orlando wins that '96 ECF and goes on to win the Finals, does Shaq stay rather than go to LAL?

The alternate timeline I think of is does Jordan even come back to the Bulls?  If he clearly thinks Pippen is superior to Kemp, would he really want to come back to play with Kemp along with Will Perdue and BJ Armstrong (the only other holdovers from the '93 title team)?  Does this Kemp trade somehow push Phil Jackson out the door (maybe he quits or fails to win with Kemp and gets fired before Jordan comes back?).

I guess Jordan was still under contract with the Bulls as they still paid him his salary while playing baseball, so he probably didn't have any options other than Chicago. Otherwise he'd have to sit out one more year, as his contract only ran until the end of the '96 season (so no brief '95 run, maybe no 72 win '96 team)?

Then he goes on to sign with Knicks? As they were reportedly offering Jordan $25m per in the summer of '96.

Of course, the more interesting Jordan alternate timeline I've heard about is that if there was no baseball strike, Jordan wouldn't have quit baseball and would have likely been called up to the White Sox in '95.  So what does the basketball world look like if Jordan continues to play baseball?  Do Karl Malone and Shawn Kemp have rings? Does Shaq go to LA?  How many rings does Phil Jackson have now?

[Moranis]

Interesting. I wonder what year it was and what draft pick it would have been. That could potentially have allowed the Bulls to rebuild on the fly and maintain the dynasty if it was the right pick.

It really is true though, sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

I'm assuming it was the '94 Draft. Sonics had the 11th pick.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1994.html

Jalen Rose was probably the best player on the board.

Wow, yeah, IF they would have drafted Rose, that would have been interesting. Ricky Pierce also had some left in the tank at that time I think, so Kemp, Pierce, and Jaylen Rose for Pippen would not have been a bad deal for the Bulls.

Pierce was basically done by 94-95.  Kemp however was pretty darn good and Rose would have been a solid pick, but not much use to a contending team his first couple of seasons.  Without Pippen you also wonder if Jordan would have actually come back and even so with Kemp around I wonder if the Bulls still bring in Rodman.  It would have been a completely different team then and perhaps Jordan isn't thought of the same way because maybe he doesn't get that second three-peat and no way they get 72 wins. 

[celticsclay]

The big question: if and when Jordan comes back, how many rings does he win?  If he ends up with 4 or 5 rings, does the gap between he and Lebron close?

I kind of think that Jordan would have won with just about anyone. Who knows if Kemp has the same conditioning and possible drug issues if he is playing with Jordan and Jordan is pushing him every night.

Something to also think about. Aside from Pippen, I think it is universally accepted that Dennis Rodman was the third best player that Jordan had on any of those title teams. Do people realize though that by the time Rodman got the Bulls he was about 34? Don't we think that Bosh had to be a lot better player than 34-36 year old Rodman? When you look back at the rosters of some of those bulls teams they really had mind blowingly little depth and were extremely old.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1997.html

It's crazy Jason Caffey and Bill Wennington combined to start 40 games for that team. That team probably only has 8 players that really belonged in the NBA. I think Jordan would have won that chip with Kemp, Rodman and Pierce or whoever else suited up with him.

[celticsclay]

Interesting. I wonder what year it was and what draft pick it would have been. That could potentially have allowed the Bulls to rebuild on the fly and maintain the dynasty if it was the right pick.

It really is true though, sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

I'm assuming it was the '94 Draft. Sonics had the 11th pick.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1994.html

Jalen Rose was probably the best player on the board.

Wow, yeah, IF they would have drafted Rose, that would have been interesting. Ricky Pierce also had some left in the tank at that time I think, so Kemp, Pierce, and Jaylen Rose for Pippen would not have been a bad deal for the Bulls.

Pierce was basically done by 94-95.  Kemp however was pretty darn good and Rose would have been a solid pick, but not much use to a contending team his first couple of seasons.  Without Pippen you also wonder if Jordan would have actually come back and even so with Kemp around I wonder if the Bulls still bring in Rodman.  It would have been a completely different team then and perhaps Jordan isn't thought of the same way because maybe he doesn't get that second three-peat and no way they get 72 wins.

I guess this depends on your definition of done. Pierce was incredibly effective for his age averaging double figures all the way until the 1996-1997 season (even more impressive given he was playing limited minutes). He was definitely still a really solid Bench player. Given that their 4th leading scorer was Luc Longley and that players like Buechler and Randy Brown were in the rotation Pierce and even a rookie Rose would have helped.

[Boris Badenov]

Maybe it's 20/20 hindsight but I think the Jordan/Pippen synergy was really special.

Pippen had the perfect mental makeup to be Jordan's #2 - deferential in terms of scoring, bringing everything else to the table on both offense and defense, and with the same killer instinct. Pippen could set the table offensively, he was a good rebounder, and he could guard the other team's best player at any position of PG/SG/SF, which took a load off Jordan energy-wise.

And those guys together were an absolute terror when they both locked in defensively at the end of games. I think that aspect of those teams was probably the thing that elevated them to all-time great status.

I just can't see another set of players checking all of those boxes.