I'm Not Sure Some on this Forum Understand Player Development (Me Included)

[DefenseWinsChamps]

We (me included) are a little short-sighted when it comes to player development. I don't think we appreciate how many drills, and how many individual steps have to be taken to develop one area of someone's game.

For example, I read Lowe's 10 things today. In it, he commented on Adams' new ability to dribble twice going to the basket. Here is what he said:

"Player development coaches spend entire seasons teaching big men their first one-dribble move. Once they have that down, it might take another year of rote practice -- and maybe longer -- for the big galoot to master two- or three-dribble moves with enough confidence to bust them out in a game. Anthony Davis went through that exact progression, and only now, in Year 5, is Davis comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and taking a bunch of decisive dribbles on the block."

As recently as last year, we needed another shooter because our shooting was bad. We were 24th (and lower than that for much of the year) in 3 point shooting. This year, we are 17th, and I notice that our shooting is not talked about as much. Crowder, Bradley, and Thomas have all upped their percentages. Both Horford and Olynyk are below their career averages and in a slump (maybe baby Horford is keeping Al awake at night?), but overall we are clearly a better shooting team than last year.

What happened? I don't know, honestly. The oversimplified answer is probably "Our guys put in the work," but is that all? What footwork, coming off screens, tired shooting, etc. did they learn that has aided their development? Part of it is comfort with one another. Part of it is reps. Part something else.

That brings us to our current weakness--rebounding. But what exactly is that a weakness of? Is it all jumping and fighting for boards, being really tall,  and being really strong, or is it also something else? I honestly am not a good enough basketball mind to know, but I think part of the rebounding woes has to do with defensive rotations and loss of integrity on our team defense. If we get out of position, then we won't rebound well.

I think that Ainge and CBS are, instead of trying to solve the problems through drafting an average rebounding big or trading for some over-the-hill average big, developing their talent from within. The road to mediocrity is lined with short-sighted moves to shore up weaknesses (See Wizards, Washington).

I think Horford can rebound better once he gets into our scheme a bit more. I think Olynyk can rebound better, or at least tap rebounds to teammates better. Rozier, Brown, and Smart can all be doing what Bradley is doing to help our big men. If Crowder ever learns how to fight/box out without getting called for a foul, he could help more. The top rebounding teams all have their forwards and guards helping out significantly. Maybe that's what CBS is developing, but it's just not there yet.

I guess my point (and I am preaching to myself here too) is that player development doesn't just happen in the box score. It happens when a guy does a drop step, or makes the right pass even if it doesn't lead to an assist, or boxes a guy out so a guard can clear the rebound, or comes around a pick and gets his defender on his hip, or etc. Maybe there are ways our guys are developing in rebounding we don't see. Maybe by the end of the season we won't even notice the rebounding issue.

[Rick Robeys Return]

I've also been thinking about player development, not least how increasingly important it will be under the new CBA where the draft takes on such added importance over free agency in particular. I'd love to see a comparative assessment of all 30 NBA teams and their player development programs, relative success and failures etc. I tend to think that Memphis' relative success this season, especially on the defensive end, is probably related to Coach Fizdale's well documented skills in player development, and this then playing a role in getting marginal and rookie players to buy in and really contribute.

Interesting post. TP!

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I've also been thinking about player development, not least how increasingly important it will be under the new CBA where the draft takes on such added importance over free agency in particular. I'd love to see a comparative assessment of all 30 NBA teams and their player development programs, relative success and failures etc. I tend to think that Memphis' relative success this season, especially on the defensive end, is probably related to Coach Fizdale's well documented skills in player development, and this then playing a role in getting marginal and rookie players to buy in and really contribute.

Interesting post. TP!

I agree. It honestly is making more sense for us to resign our guys and develop through the draft under the new CBA. Obviously if a homerun trade comes up, then I'm in, but I think the new CBA combined with the 17 draft class is tipping the scales against the risk of a guy like Cousins.

[GRADYCOLNON]

To address the rebounding.  The Celtics are lacking a player that excels at pulling in boards at a high percentage.  Now, the team can combat its lack of rebounding by doing a better job as a team overall, but downsides are the defensive positioning is weaker than expected as the players will have to sag down into the paint to get the rebound.  This is what made Sullinger so valuable for the team defensively last season and the reason why many Defensive of the Year players are dominant rebounding big men.  I believe that Danny Ainge is trying to address this issue (though with little success) because there is a big trade-off on offense for players that only rebound well like a Biyombo versus offense talent without rebounding like Olynyk or Horford.  Many good teams find themselves in this rebounding predicament.  In the Celtics history, the titles have been won by teams that have found this player.  Russell, Cowens, Parish (Bird/McHale) and Garnett.  This is probably why Ainge has been taking so long: to find the right player, one that can rebound well and play well in the offense (so we don't play 4 on 5).

[DefenseWinsChamps]

To address the rebounding.  The Celtics are lacking a player that excels at pulling in boards at a high percentage.  Now, the team can combat its lack of rebounding by doing a better job as a team overall, but downsides are the defensive positioning is weaker than expected as the players will have to sag down into the paint to get the rebound.  This is what made Sullinger so valuable for the team defensively last season and the reason why many Defensive of the Year players are dominant rebounding big men.  I believe that Danny Ainge is trying to address this issue (though with little success) because there is a big trade-off on offense for players that only rebound well like a Biyombo versus offense talent without rebounding like Olynyk or Horford.  Many good teams find themselves in this rebounding predicament.  In the Celtics history, the titles have been won by teams that have found this player.  Russell, Cowens, Parish (Bird/McHale) and Garnett.  This is probably why Ainge has been taking so long: to find the right player, one that can rebound well and play well in the offense (so we don't play 4 on 5).

I agree with your premise that both Ainge and CBS want a skilled big man to pair with Horford, not just a rebounder.

I think we may overestimate Sully's rebounding last year. He was good, but he got more rebounds because he hung around the basket more, rather than getting out on rotations, hedging on picks, etc. His adjusted rebounding percentage (based on how many rebounds he came down with versus his rebounding opportunities) was an above average 75%. This year, Olynyk, Crowder, Bradley, and Rozier are all above that, with Smart and Horford close to it.

No doubt that Sully's NBA ability is rebounding, but it's not like it is elite level.

(Side note: Johnson's rebounding is 60%, which is bad for a big. I know we knew that, but that stat bears it out. However, I think, like Grady said, Johnson's other abilities like passing, shooting, finishing, team defense, setting picks, all make him a plus on the court.

CBS appears to be willing to live with second chance points. Maybe it's because he thinks they can take advantage of crashing players by getting out quick on the fast break?)

[Csfan1984]

I've also been thinking about player development, not least how increasingly important it will be under the new CBA where the draft takes on such added importance over free agency in particular. I'd love to see a comparative assessment of all 30 NBA teams and their player development programs, relative success and failures etc. I tend to think that Memphis' relative success this season, especially on the defensive end, is probably related to Coach Fizdale's well documented skills in player development, and this then playing a role in getting marginal and rookie players to buy in and really contribute.

Interesting post. TP!

I agree. It honestly is making more sense for us to resign our guys and develop through the draft under the new CBA. Obviously if a homerun trade comes up, then I'm in, but I think the new CBA combined with the 17 draft class is tipping the scales against the risk of a guy like Cousins.

CBA may work for us with Cousins. Do the Kings want that guy to be a super max guy especially when they have never made the playoffs? They may move Cousins to avoid that situation entirely. Trade for max return before Cousins' agent and the player start talking money.

[liam]

I've also been thinking about player development, not least how increasingly important it will be under the new CBA where the draft takes on such added importance over free agency in particular. I'd love to see a comparative assessment of all 30 NBA teams and their player development programs, relative success and failures etc. I tend to think that Memphis' relative success this season, especially on the defensive end, is probably related to Coach Fizdale's well documented skills in player development, and this then playing a role in getting marginal and rookie players to buy in and really contribute.

Interesting post. TP!

I agree. It honestly is making more sense for us to resign our guys and develop through the draft under the new CBA. Obviously if a homerun trade comes up, then I'm in, but I think the new CBA combined with the 17 draft class is tipping the scales against the risk of a guy like Cousins.

CBA may work for us with Cousins. Do the Kings want that guy to be a super max guy especially when they have never made the playoffs? They may move Cousins to avoid that situation entirely. Trade for max return before Cousins' agent and the player start talking money.

You just can't make sense out of Sacramento nonsense. That franchise is a mess for a reason. They never do the thing they should they even messed up their future draft picks with that Philly trade. They draft poorly( to put it mildly) so there is no in them trading for draft picks. I also think Boogie likes being their ( god knows why) so I bet he'll sign some super max contract in the off season. I think Boogies whole career will be wasted on that horrible team.

[Csfan1984]

I've also been thinking about player development, not least how increasingly important it will be under the new CBA where the draft takes on such added importance over free agency in particular. I'd love to see a comparative assessment of all 30 NBA teams and their player development programs, relative success and failures etc. I tend to think that Memphis' relative success this season, especially on the defensive end, is probably related to Coach Fizdale's well documented skills in player development, and this then playing a role in getting marginal and rookie players to buy in and really contribute.

Interesting post. TP!

I agree. It honestly is making more sense for us to resign our guys and develop through the draft under the new CBA. Obviously if a homerun trade comes up, then I'm in, but I think the new CBA combined with the 17 draft class is tipping the scales against the risk of a guy like Cousins.

CBA may work for us with Cousins. Do the Kings want that guy to be a super max guy especially when they have never made the playoffs? They may move Cousins to avoid that situation entirely. Trade for max return before Cousins' agent and the player start talking money.

You just can't make sense out of Sacramento nonsense. That franchise is a mess for a reason. They never do the thing they should they even messed up their future draft picks with that Philly trade. They draft poorly( to put it mildly) so there is no in them trading for draft picks. I also think Boogie likes being their ( god knows why) so I bet he'll sign some super max contract in the off season. I think Boogies whole career will be wasted on that horrible team.

Lol TP. You are probably right they will super max him and remain the Kings for a long time.

[Celtics4ever]

I think that Ainge and CBS are, instead of trying to solve the problems through drafting an average rebounding big or trading for some over-the-hill average big, developing their talent from within. The road to mediocrity is lined with short-sighted moves to shore up weaknesses (See Wizards, Washington).

Some of the talent we are developing is quite frankly, lacking in some areas.   Sully was clearly not the answer as he had serious issues with weight and conditioning which are still impacting his health.

Drafting is a calculated gamble,  KO is not aggressive, he can have all the skill in the world and it does not help when he does not decide to exert or use that skill.  Mickey is a tweener.   Amir is old.  Smart can't shoot well.  One hopes a player will develop, but they do not always do, sorry.   

I would guess that you have not played basketball at a high level.  Because of there is less teaching than one would think on some of these skills.   Pros games are developed and they work on their bodies but some bigs never learn to shoot free throws and how many times have we seen a guy's game not grow.  Only the great players add to their game every year, learning a new trick here and there.   A great deal more of them are happy they got to the NBA and complacent.

[Eja117]

On some level the players have to be involved with developing themselves. Kobe spent a whole summer once making a thousand shots a day. Making them. Not taking them.

Bird took a whole summer to only use his left hand.

I have serious doubts Smart has done anything like this. I think Avery has.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I think that Ainge and CBS are, instead of trying to solve the problems through drafting an average rebounding big or trading for some over-the-hill average big, developing their talent from within. The road to mediocrity is lined with short-sighted moves to shore up weaknesses (See Wizards, Washington).

Some of the talent we are developing is quite frankly, lacking in some areas.   Sully was clearly not the answer as he had serious issues with weight and conditioning which are still impacting his health.

Drafting is a calculated gamble,  KO is not aggressive, he can have all the skill in the world and it does not help when he does not decide to exert or use that skill.  Mickey is a tweener.   Amir is old.  Smart can't shoot well.  One hopes a player will develop, but they do not always do, sorry.   

I would guess that you have not played basketball at a high level.  Because of there is less teaching than one would think on some of these skills.   Pros games are developed and they work on their bodies but some bigs never learn to shoot free throws and how many times have we seen a guy's game not grow.  Only the great players add to their game every year, learning a new trick here and there.   A great deal more of them are happy they got to the NBA and complacent.

Apparently Lowe disagrees with you on how NBA teams develop their young guys.

CBS has clearly indicated that they want players to add something new to their game each year. There are legit weaknesses, but the question is whether or not there has been growth.

In shooting, there was last year. Bradley added rebounding and driving this year. Crowder increased his shooting percentage. Olynyk is fouling less and making more decisive choices with the ball. Smart is facilitating in a more controlled way.

There is growth in some of these areas. The best teams develop their own players, both role players and starters. We are doing that. I'm just arguing that when it comes to our obvious rebounding weakness, maybe that is still a work in progress.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

On some level the players have to be involved with developing themselves. Kobe spent a whole summer once making a thousand shots a day. Making them. Not taking them.

Bird took a whole summer to only use his left hand.

I have serious doubts Smart has done anything like this. I think Avery has.

I agree Avery has. I'm not sure about Smart. He came into this year with new shooting form that removed his former hitch. He also came in with a lot more comfort handling the ball. His shooting hasn't panned out, but I tend to think his new form has a greater likelihood of consistency than the old one.

[kozlodoev]

On some level the players have to be involved with developing themselves. Kobe spent a whole summer once making a thousand shots a day. Making them. Not taking them.

Bird took a whole summer to only use his left hand.

I have serious doubts Smart has done anything like this. I think Avery has.

I agree Avery has. I'm not sure about Smart. He came into this year with new shooting form that removed his former hitch. He also came in with a lot more comfort handling the ball. His shooting hasn't panned out, but I tend to think his new form has a greater likelihood of consistency than the old one.

On a related note, is Smart following the Sullinger diet or or something? He looks like he has put a noticeable amount of weight since the start of season.

[Monkhouse]

On some level the players have to be involved with developing themselves. Kobe spent a whole summer once making a thousand shots a day. Making them. Not taking them.

Bird took a whole summer to only use his left hand.

I have serious doubts Smart has done anything like this. I think Avery has.

I agree Avery has. I'm not sure about Smart. He came into this year with new shooting form that removed his former hitch. He also came in with a lot more comfort handling the ball. His shooting hasn't panned out, but I tend to think his new form has a greater likelihood of consistency than the old one.

On a related note, is Smart following the Sullinger diet or or something? He looks like he has put a noticeable amount of weight since the start of season.

I've noticed that too...

Why does he look so out of shape? 

[Eja117]

On some level the players have to be involved with developing themselves. Kobe spent a whole summer once making a thousand shots a day. Making them. Not taking them.

Bird took a whole summer to only use his left hand.

I have serious doubts Smart has done anything like this. I think Avery has.

I agree Avery has. I'm not sure about Smart. He came into this year with new shooting form that removed his former hitch. He also came in with a lot more comfort handling the ball. His shooting hasn't panned out, but I tend to think his new form has a greater likelihood of consistency than the old one.

On a related note, is Smart following the Sullinger diet or or something? He looks like he has put a noticeable amount of weight since the start of season.

I've noticed that too...

Why does he look so out of shape? 

soft