Author Topic: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?  (Read 8776 times)

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Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2016, 05:51:39 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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C.Parsons got the max and Porter is playing at a higher level now than Parsons was back then.

So yes, I think we should expect Porter to command the max.

I am not fond of giving it to him though. I don't think he is good enough off the dribble to elevate his play towards star levels. I think he is a fine 4th wheel.

In a world in which Griffin stays in LA, Hayward stays in Utah, and Cousins signs a giant extension in Sacramento, and the Celtics are sitting on a big pile of cash to give to one free agent, would you not give it to him?  Next summer is the last summer to get anyone above the MLE in free agency, and you could do a lot worse than giving the 25% max to an efficient-shooting 24 year-old who can play at two positions on both ends of the court.  I'm arguing that he should be plan D or E, not plan A.  But I do think he should high up on the list of backup plans.
I disagree. I mean hes solid, but Id rather save money for the impending FA of Smart Bradley Thomas, than pay Otto Porter 30 mil.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2016, 05:52:33 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I'd rather spend my money on PF or Center. 

This, TP

Well thankfully the Wizards are starting Porter at PF these days, so my suggestion is still good!

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2016, 06:04:08 PM »

Offline saltlover

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C.Parsons got the max and Porter is playing at a higher level now than Parsons was back then.

So yes, I think we should expect Porter to command the max.

I am not fond of giving it to him though. I don't think he is good enough off the dribble to elevate his play towards star levels. I think he is a fine 4th wheel.

In a world in which Griffin stays in LA, Hayward stays in Utah, and Cousins signs a giant extension in Sacramento, and the Celtics are sitting on a big pile of cash to give to one free agent, would you not give it to him?  Next summer is the last summer to get anyone above the MLE in free agency, and you could do a lot worse than giving the 25% max to an efficient-shooting 24 year-old who can play at two positions on both ends of the court.  I'm arguing that he should be plan D or E, not plan A.  But I do think he should high up on the list of backup plans.
I disagree. I mean hes solid, but Id rather save money for the impending FA of Smart Bradley Thomas, than pay Otto Porter 30 mil.

So run this team out there for the next 5 years?  I don't completely object, but my hope is that ownership will spend more again beginning in summer of 2018, at least to the apron that should be around $135 million.  Also, Porter's max is $24 million based on current projections.  It may not change your opinion, but that's $5 million less than what it would cost for Griffin or Hayward.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2016, 09:02:52 PM »

Offline chambers

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He's certainly underrated judging from the responses here.
I think he's the kind of player that would flourish in our system and he has strong defensive potential.

The league is changing into a game dominated by guys that can defend 2-3 positions and hit the three. A guy like Porter can do all of those and he can also create his own shot. Given his age he'll get close to the max if he doesn't get any max offers.

But yeah, he's worth keeping in our back pockets as Saltlover suggests.

He has improved dramatically over the last year for sure and is starting to look like the top draft pick that he was (albeit in a very weak draft).

Versatility is the key.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2016, 09:26:00 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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C.Parsons got the max and Porter is playing at a higher level now than Parsons was back then.

So yes, I think we should expect Porter to command the max.

I am not fond of giving it to him though. I don't think he is good enough off the dribble to elevate his play towards star levels. I think he is a fine 4th wheel.

I am not sure what you are saying but I don't think any GMs are looking back and saying "I wish I was the one who had given Parsons that contract".  It will be interesting to see how things play out with all the extra money to go around but the question is whether Porter should be a Max FA target (I assume by the Celtics).  I sure hope not.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2016, 09:44:25 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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People are so quick to throw max these days. LOL

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2016, 09:52:47 PM »

Offline jambr380

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People are so quick to throw max these days. LOL

Well, since the salary cap keeps increasing, more teams have massive amounts of money than ever before. Things will settle down if/when the cap increases slow a bit and teams have spent up to that level. Ainge being so frugal luckily benefited us this past off-season with Horford.

Players like Towns and Davis never become free agents because their teams lock them up for the first 9 years of their NBA careers. SL makes a very good argument for why Porter is a player who may grow into a max-worthy player and that WAS may not match. I am game if Durant, Griffin, and Hayward don't sign with us. As SL mentioned, this will be our last opportunity to land a big player before all of our own guys are up for humongous raises.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2016, 11:42:27 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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People are so quick to throw max these days. LOL

Well, since the salary cap keeps increasing, more teams have massive amounts of money than ever before. Things will settle down if/when the cap increases slow a bit and teams have spent up to that level. Ainge being so frugal luckily benefited us this past off-season with Horford.

Players like Towns and Davis never become free agents because their teams lock them up for the first 9 years of their NBA careers. SL makes a very good argument for why Porter is a player who may grow into a max-worthy player and that WAS may not match. I am game if Durant, Griffin, and Hayward don't sign with us. As SL mentioned, this will be our last opportunity to land a big player before all of our own guys are up for humongous raises.

Key word: MAY. He may also not. After some ridiculous contracts by other teams and saw how it crippled their cap space tells me not to spend max for them, unless Danny sees something on them that we don't. People forget the Josh Smith and Ben Gordon situation the Pistons had.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2016, 12:11:18 AM »

Offline saltlover

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People are so quick to throw max these days. LOL

Well, since the salary cap keeps increasing, more teams have massive amounts of money than ever before. Things will settle down if/when the cap increases slow a bit and teams have spent up to that level. Ainge being so frugal luckily benefited us this past off-season with Horford.

Players like Towns and Davis never become free agents because their teams lock them up for the first 9 years of their NBA careers. SL makes a very good argument for why Porter is a player who may grow into a max-worthy player and that WAS may not match. I am game if Durant, Griffin, and Hayward don't sign with us. As SL mentioned, this will be our last opportunity to land a big player before all of our own guys are up for humongous raises.

Key word: MAY. He may also not. After some ridiculous contracts by other teams and saw how it crippled their cap space tells me not to spend max for them, unless Danny sees something on them that we don't. People forget the Josh Smith and Ben Gordon situation the Pistons had.

Not remotely the same.  Anyone who thought Josh Smith was going to become a better player in his new deal at age 28 simply doesn't understand the NBA aging curve.  Porter will be 24, when many players are still in fact improving.  Smith had been the same player for several years, for better and worse.  His efficiency was quite low.  Gordon was a little younger at 26, but still, he'd been the same player most of his career.  He did come off a career year entering free agency, which someone could accuse Porter of doing.  But the thing is, in terms of shooting efficiency, neither Gordon nor Smith ever had as efficient years in their career as Porter did last year, much less this year.  Don't judge Otto Porter by Joe Dumars' failure to differentiate between volume scoring and good offense.

In order to be a true star, Porter probably needs to keep up his current pace to make up for his deficiency in creating off the dribble.  But that would mean he'd outplay his contract in my opinion.  If he split the difference between last year and this year, with an eFG over 56%, he wouldn't resemble an albatross.  And it's unlikely that he'd perform worse than last year over the next four years, barring an unexpected injury (he's been pretty healthy most of his career, so there's no reason to expect one beyond the usual perils of playing a contact sport.)  While that would make him overpaid, he'd still be quite useful, and it would be far from franchise killing.

The biggest question is what sort of payroll ownership is willing to put up.  If they're willing to spend a small to moderate amount in the luxury tax, Porter wouldn't likely cost the team the ability to hold on to any of their key free agents in 2018.  And, again, he's cheaper than Hayward, Griffin, Ibaka, etc, so if the team is somewhat more parsimonious than I'd like, he still allows for more flexibility in the summer of 2018.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2016, 03:12:27 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If I thought Porter could defend bigger wings and stretch bigs, I'd say yes, but what I've heard about him is that he just doesn't have the bulk to defend bigger guys.
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Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2016, 03:26:41 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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Definitely not.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2016, 05:37:28 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Even Kelly Olynyk had a stretch of time where he looked like an all-star.

"Olynyk’s hot shooting streak is even more impressive when you break down his numbers over the past six weeks:

.@NBA 3-POINT PCT (Since Nov. 28) 1. Redick, LAC 52.6 2. Leonard, SA 49.0 3. Rush, GSW 48.6 4. Casspi, Sac 48.5 5. OLYNYK, BOS 48.3
— Sean Grande (@SeanGrandePBP) January 19, 2016
Long-range accuracy like that from the young seven-footer may prompt more comparisons of Olynyk to Nowitzki from Tommy Heinsohn, but Dirk attempted to prematurely put an end to those after Monday’s game."

http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2016/01/19/kelly-olynyk-is-no-dirk-nowitzki-but-hes-starting-to-shoot-like-him

So I'd pump the breaks on Porter max money talk and wait to see how he pans out over a full season before even considering making that kind of offer.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2016, 05:55:44 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Just because a player is good and young does not mean they are a max player.


Just because a team is flushed with cap space, they should just spend it all on a max deal for a young good player.



At some point, the contracts and cap room catches up.   Don't be the team in a bad position first. 



So no, Porter is not a max FA target for this team.   If another team wants to waste money (like Dallas and Barnes) more power to them. 

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2016, 06:00:29 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Just because a player is good and young does not mean they are a max player.

I could not agree more, Tp.

Re: Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2016, 06:41:36 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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People are so quick to throw max these days. LOL

Well, since the salary cap keeps increasing, more teams have massive amounts of money than ever before. Things will settle down if/when the cap increases slow a bit and teams have spent up to that level. Ainge being so frugal luckily benefited us this past off-season with Horford.

Players like Towns and Davis never become free agents because their teams lock them up for the first 9 years of their NBA careers. SL makes a very good argument for why Porter is a player who may grow into a max-worthy player and that WAS may not match. I am game if Durant, Griffin, and Hayward don't sign with us. As SL mentioned, this will be our last opportunity to land a big player before all of our own guys are up for humongous raises.

Key word: MAY. He may also not. After some ridiculous contracts by other teams and saw how it crippled their cap space tells me not to spend max for them, unless Danny sees something on them that we don't. People forget the Josh Smith and Ben Gordon situation the Pistons had.

Not remotely the same.  Anyone who thought Josh Smith was going to become a better player in his new deal at age 28 simply doesn't understand the NBA aging curve.  Porter will be 24, when many players are still in fact improving.  Smith had been the same player for several years, for better and worse.  His efficiency was quite low.  Gordon was a little younger at 26, but still, he'd been the same player most of his career.  He did come off a career year entering free agency, which someone could accuse Porter of doing.  But the thing is, in terms of shooting efficiency, neither Gordon nor Smith ever had as efficient years in their career as Porter did last year, much less this year.  Don't judge Otto Porter by Joe Dumars' failure to differentiate between volume scoring and good offense.

In order to be a true star, Porter probably needs to keep up his current pace to make up for his deficiency in creating off the dribble.  But that would mean he'd outplay his contract in my opinion.  If he split the difference between last year and this year, with an eFG over 56%, he wouldn't resemble an albatross.  And it's unlikely that he'd perform worse than last year over the next four years, barring an unexpected injury (he's been pretty healthy most of his career, so there's no reason to expect one beyond the usual perils of playing a contact sport.)  While that would make him overpaid, he'd still be quite useful, and it would be far from franchise killing.

The biggest question is what sort of payroll ownership is willing to put up.  If they're willing to spend a small to moderate amount in the luxury tax, Porter wouldn't likely cost the team the ability to hold on to any of their key free agents in 2018.  And, again, he's cheaper than Hayward, Griffin, Ibaka, etc, so if the team is somewhat more parsimonious than I'd like, he still allows for more flexibility in the summer of 2018.

If he could be acquired cheaper, then why would you throw max on an unproven player? And yes, I can compare this situation to Ben Gordon contract. Gordon was averaging 20 PPG and was probably reaching his prime before Pistons signed him.

Scratch the thought of signing unproven players at max deal. Danny is not that stupid. If we want to acquire unproven potentials, we'll do a cheap deals like Ainge did with Isaiah.