Horford is the 3rd best big man in the league

[Granath]

You can keep responding to yourself all you want but it doesn't make it any more true. Cousins, Davis, Drummond and Gasol are clearly better players in my mind. KAT, Whiteside, DJ, Aldridge and Griffin are all around the same level. You can say, for instance, that Griffin doesn't pass or defend as well as Horford but he scores and rebounds much better.

So it's a stretch to consider Al the 3rd best big man in the league. He's probably the most versatile big man in the league but his lack of rebounding holds him back from being in that top 3. However, for this team he is a great fit given the way the offense runs with him and I'm happy to have him on the team.

[Eja117]

Best at what? Because it's certainly not basketball.

[green_bballers13]

Prob top 10. Very subjective. There are more than 3 bigs that are better than Horford.

[chilidawg]

Davis and cousins are clearly ahead.  Gasol is having an excellent year.  Griffin is certainly more of a scorer.  I think Drummond and Jordan are limited offensively and overrated.  I'd put Horford in the group after Davis, Cousins and Gasol, somewhere between 4 and 10.  3rd needs some serious green tinted lenses.   

[PhoSita]

Assuming everybody is on a one year contract, these are the bigs I would trade Al Horford for straight up:

Draymond
Marc
Griffin
Davis
Towns
Cousins

Borderline but no:

Love
Millsap
Drummond
Jordan
Whiteside
Aldridge

[crimson_stallion]

I don't see how any of those guys rate better than Horford though.  Maybe Blake.  Kristaps isn't there yet.  Towns isn't either.  Turner, Gobert and Whiteside are more shotblockers.  Whiteside being the best right now probably.  That goes to jordan imo though. Aldridge is not better than Horford. 

Cousins and  Davis are. Kevin Love and Horford are fighting it out for 3rd.

Horford is even more efficient than Boogie right now but as far as mass numbers it doesn't really compare.

Horford is 3 regardless on efficiency and numbers period.

Unless you count Kevin Durant, George, lebron, draymond etc who swing the 4 and are forwards but not big men.  They are still pretty big.

Towns, Griffin, Aldridge are all better then Horford - as in I would trade Horford for any one of those three guys any day of the week, without having to think about it.

Whiteside, Drummond, Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan and Marc Gasol are all about on par. 

I'd say Draymond Green, Paul Millsap and Porzingis are also all about on par. 

[crimson_stallion]

I'm sorry guys, but I don't care how good you are at everything else that you do...

You can not rank as a top 3 big man in the NBA when you average 15 points and 6 rebounds a game with a 20.4% free throw rate and only 25% of your shots coming within 3 feet.

I mean, for goodness sake, Avery Bradley (a 6'2" / 180 pound guard) is averaging higher scoring numbers, is taking more shot attempts inside 3 feet AND is getting more rebounds.  That's pathetic.

Horford does a lot of things very well and I do like him as a player, but for him to even dream of being in that "top 5 big man" discussion he has to significantly improve his offensive contributions in the paint and his rebounding. 

We lost Sully and Turner, added Horford, and how much better is our record now compared to last year?  Is it even better at all?  That's despite the fact that the other teams in the East have mostly gotten weaker. 

Horford is a nice player, but lets relax with this "top 3 big man" talk.  That's crazy.

[Who]

Anthony Davis is the best center in the league. Cousins is #2.

I go with Marc Gasol at #3 and then Horford as #4. Towns at #5.

Then the cluster of defender/rebounder types with Gobert, D.Jordan, Drummond and Dwight. I am not sure who would be my final pick in the top 10. Probably Whiteside. Or maybe Steven Adams (love his physical thoughness). Brook Lopez or Jokic could make a case also as a more offensive orientated choice. I'll go with Whiteside.

To explain my choices ....

Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins are both MVP caliber talents. Two of the top six players in the league along with (3 SFs) LeBron, Durant, Kawhi and Steph Curry (PG).

Then there is a big drop-off where we see two guys competing for a spot the All-NBA third team in Marc Gasol and Al Horford. Two similar style players (facilitators, team players, contribute in all three phases of the game) but do it in different ways. Horford more based on speed and mobility whereas Gasol offers size and length around the basket. I generally chose speed over size but I will give Gasol the edge for two reasons: (1) Gasol more willing to step up as a go-to scorer when his team needs one (2) neither is a great rebounder anymore but Gasol can more frequently step up to the challenge against other behemoths.

That brings us to Karl Towns. A possible All-Star player. He is not the defender that the two guys above him are which is why I drop him to #5. His inability to be a defensive leader is one of the big things holding back his Minnesota T'Wolves team. Still, I will take his three dimensional (offense, defense, rebounding) over the next cluster of defender / rebounder types which is why Towns is at #5.

This brings us to Gobert, D.Jordan, Drummond and D.Howard. You can argue the order. There is very little separating the four players. All in that borderline All-Star area.

I love Gobert because he is steady and a solid passer. D.Jordan is an exceptional athlete. The most athletic center in the league. He can do a few more things than Gobert due to that athleticism but is a terrible passer. Anyway, they are #6 and #7 in some order. Then I have Drummond and Dwight behind them. I don't think Drummond is the defender that Gobert and DeAndre are which is why I have him behind those two. I don't trust Dwight Howard. He is a bit too undependable / inconsistent these days. Some times, he is right up there with them and other times he looks older and less physically able than they are. So I am leaving Dwight at the back of the queue.

I'll go with Whiteside at #10. I have been pleased with his gradual growth as a defender (vs playing for defensive stats) since joining Miami over the previous season and a half. I am not sure how he is developing so far this year because I haven't been watching Miami but I am concerned about the recent reports of his team defense. Playing for himself rather than his team. About the team playing much better defense when he is off the floor. So I'll keep him separate from the other guys above him for now.

[walker834]

The reason I rate Horford and Love higher is because they are capable of scoring more and rebounding and have shown that in their careers.  Horford can rebound we just aren't utilizing him that way.  Drummond is  two dimensional and can't hit free throws.  Towns and Kristaps  are capable of more but are young and haven't shown the same kind of all around games yet in their careers.  I'm not bragging about Horford.  I just think he is more rare in todays nba.  There really aren't that many fully developed big men. The other guys aren't bill russell either. Horford isn't even that great to me but he's pretty rare.  Gasol is the other guy who is comparable.  I value experience somewhat.  Even Aldridge or millsap but they aren't as well rounded in their careers.

I know fantasy is basically meaningless but as far as numbers it does take that into account stats and is fairly accurate as far as rating who is best.   He's rated 3rd behind Davis and Love. Cousins is 4th.  Gasol is 5th. Turner is 6th, Porzingis is 7th Gobert,Towns, Millsap,Ibaka, Whiteside, Griffin,Lopez, Drummond, Jordan, Howard, Aldridge, .  As far as swingmen it's Durant, Giannis, Kawhi, Butler, Harden, George,  Porter, Green, James in that order.  Guards it's Giannis, Curry, Paul, Harden, Lillard,Hill,  Lowry, Wall, Kemba, Conley, Westbrook etc..

I'd mix that up a bit, but I just thought it was interesting watching Horford the other night because he is capable of things other players aren't. I think an argument can be made right now he is the 3rd best. 

Avery Bradley and IT aren't half bad either.  They are up in the top 10 at their respective positions as well even in fantasy.

I think an argument can be made that Horford is 3rd best though at least "right now".  The other guys it's more based on potential and upside.  Other players are more 2 dimensional.

IT rates right after Westbrook btw.  Some players are overrated and underrated.  As far as SG's Bradley is right there too.

Some players stat stuff more.  Bradley is rated better than Dwade for example right now.  I think as far as team basketball and efficiency an argument can be made there.

I just thought it was interesting.  Just putting information out there.

Fantasy basketball also isn't meaningless. It's fun.  People need to lighten up a bit.

[walker834]

Horford could stand under the hoop and get 12 boards a game.  Drummond will never be able to hit free throws the way he is right now or play with the same kind of all around game.  More developed and experienced is Horford and it's more about knowing when to do what with him.  Experience is undervalued says Yoda.

There really aren't that many fully developed big men in the nba though.  Horford isn't even the end all be all  but he is that for the most part.

He needs to do a better job of hulking up and knowing when to do what.

Drummond is easier to stop as well because you can just keep him out  of the paint.  Horford has averaged good rebounding in his career.

Stats are stats though I was just watching Horford the other night and what he is capable of.

Horford is underrated.  He is doing a lot more than a guy like Drummond. 

There is some give and take there because you are losing his rebounding when he is outside more, but it makes him more consistant and harder to stop each night.

We basically have him playing like a guard with his passing and everything.  He can go inside and rebound though. He's also blocking shots at a very good rate.

IT, Bradley and Horford are all top 10 at their respective positions.  Bradley has to do it with a bit more longevity but he is that right now.  He's been a top 10 sg for a while now anyways.

Anyone else see Bradley's jump in rebounding this  year? I think this is what we want anyways is spreading the floor and guys chipping in in a variety of ways.  Team basketball.

[vjcsmoke]

We lost Sully and Turner, added Horford, and how much better is our record now compared to last year?  Is it even better at all?  That's despite the fact that the other teams in the East have mostly gotten weaker. 

Our record this season is more a function of our health.  Our record with ALL of our starters healthy, I would bet you is quite good.  So don't blame Horford for that.

As for whether Horford is a top 5 or top 10 big, yeah he's up there.  That's because there's not a lot of good bigs in the NBA.  But it's also because he is so versatile both defensively and offensively.  Horford isn't quite the stat stuffer of say a Cousins, but as you pointed out... who helps to win more games  Horford or Cousins?

[Celtics4ever]

We lost Sully and Turner, added Horford, and how much better is our record now compared to last year?  Is it even better at all?  That's despite the fact that the other teams in the East have mostly gotten weaker. 

And if we stuck with Sully, our record would be worse, because he has been injured all year for his new team.   

How can you think teams in the East got weaker?   I think a lot of them are stronger.  I would love to hear your thoughts on this one...

[Surferdad]

Anthony Davis is the best center in the league. Cousins is #2.

I go with Marc Gasol at #3 and then Horford as #4. Towns at #5.

Then the cluster of defender/rebounder types with Gobert, D.Jordan, Drummond and Dwight. I am not sure who would be my final pick in the top 10. Probably Whiteside. Or maybe Steven Adams (love his physical thoughness). Brook Lopez or Jokic could make a case also as a more offensive orientated choice. I'll go with Whiteside.

To explain my choices ....

Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins are both MVP caliber talents. Two of the top six players in the league along with (3 SFs) LeBron, Durant, Kawhi and Steph Curry (PG).

Then there is a big drop-off where we see two guys competing for a spot the All-NBA third team in Marc Gasol and Al Horford. Two similar style players (facilitators, team players, contribute in all three phases of the game) but do it in different ways. Horford more based on speed and mobility whereas Gasol offers size and length around the basket. I generally chose speed over size but I will give Gasol the edge for two reasons: (1) Gasol more willing to step up as a go-to scorer when his team needs one (2) neither is a great rebounder anymore but Gasol can more frequently step up to the challenge against other behemoths.

That brings us to Karl Towns. A possible All-Star player. He is not the defender that the two guys above him are which is why I drop him to #5. His inability to be a defensive leader is one of the big things holding back his Minnesota T'Wolves team. Still, I will take his three dimensional (offense, defense, rebounding) over the next cluster of defender / rebounder types which is why Towns is at #5.

This brings us to Gobert, D.Jordan, Drummond and D.Howard. You can argue the order. There is very little separating the four players. All in that borderline All-Star area.

I love Gobert because he is steady and a solid passer. D.Jordan is an exceptional athlete. The most athletic center in the league. He can do a few more things than Gobert due to that athleticism but is a terrible passer. Anyway, they are #6 and #7 in some order. Then I have Drummond and Dwight behind them. I don't think Drummond is the defender that Gobert and DeAndre are which is why I have him behind those two. I don't trust Dwight Howard. He is a bit too undependable / inconsistent these days. Some times, he is right up there with them and other times he looks older and less physically able than they are. So I am leaving Dwight at the back of the queue.

I'll go with Whiteside at #10. I have been pleased with his gradual growth as a defender (vs playing for defensive stats) since joining Miami over the previous season and a half. I am not sure how he is developing so far this year because I haven't been watching Miami but I am concerned about the recent reports of his team defense. Playing for himself rather than his team. About the team playing much better defense when he is off the floor. So I'll keep him separate from the other guys above him for now.

This analysis seems about right to me.  Like you said, you can argue MGasol or Horford 3/4, and DJordan/Gobert 6/7.  Some folks may rate DHoward or Drummond a bit higher for true centers.  For all around big men which is that the OP asked, I would not argue with Horford at #3, he is worth every penny of that $113M.

[Vermont Green]

Interesting discussion.  Always hard to definitively rank players but after reading all of this, Horford is higher than I would have thought.  I think what this really shows is that there are not that many really impactful bigs in the league right now.  It also makes you realize that having that dominant big is not as important as it used to be.

The two best teams, GSW and CLE don't have a top big in the traditional way.  I don't consider Green or Love to be that.  Tristan Thompson is that defensive rebounding type but more role player than major impact player.

I guess my point is that it is nice that Horford ranks high in the big man rankings but he is not the kind of star player that is going to carry the team to that higher level.   I have been pleasantly surprised with his play so far.

[Moranis]

We lost Sully and Turner, added Horford, and how much better is our record now compared to last year?  Is it even better at all?  That's despite the fact that the other teams in the East have mostly gotten weaker. 

And if we stuck with Sully, our record would be worse, because he has been injured all year for his new team.   

How can you think teams in the East got weaker?   I think a lot of them are stronger.  I would love to hear your thoughts on this one...

you can't claim Sullinger would be hurt in Boston because he got hurt in Toronto.  Just no way to know that.