Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?

[Bobshot]

I suspect coaching the Sixers for Brett Brown has been a nightmare. Front office bungling caused Doug Collins to quit. He had built a decent playoff team, defensively oriented,  which got dismantled around him.

Hinkie has done the same with Brown, making tanking fashionable, unloading good players for nothing, and drafting 3 centers high in three successive years creating the current logjam.
The League finally called in the Colangelos to sort out this mess. It will take them years.

Why hasn't an obvious deal gone through yet for Noel to Boston? He's a local guy, and would seem to be a good fit. I can think of a couple reasons. For one, he's a FA next year, and the Celtics can get him for free, if they want to pay him. But they need a guy right now, if they want to climb in the playoffs. So, maybe it's a cat and mouse game as to the right price.
A secondary consideration is the Boston-Phliiy rivalry going back to the Russell-Wilt days.I doubt that's a major factor at this point--the Colangelos worked  with Ainge in Phoenix.

Brown is in a pickle with Noel right now. Their problem is everybody knows it, he's a FA next year, and nobody wants to give up very much for him.

[Fireworks_Boom!]

Philly had no leverage before their coach came out and said he is out of the rotation, which has left them with negative leverage.

It's so obvious that he is gone.

[celticsclay]

Philly had no leverage before their coach came out and said he is out of the rotation, which has left them with negative leverage.

It's so obvious that he is gone.

I think this situation has probably become worse than any of us could have imagined.

[MBunge]

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660466695536640

https://twitter.com/blanchardJRB/status/810206523540566016

Not sure why anyone should care about those.  This is The Process:

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660183361851393

and of course there is Simmons too plus their two top 10 picks this year.  Okafor and Noel could be complete busts, which they aren't, and it won't matter if Embiid stays healthy and Simmons comes close to his potential.

The Process was never about building a contender or even winning one championship.  It was sold as doing something no one else had to achieve something beyond normal expectations.  If two of your top four picks in the process turn out to essentially be busts, you're not doing anything extraordinary.  You're just OKC east.  And while that's a pretty nice thing to be, is it worth throwing away 4 or 5 years of your basketball life? 

Mike

I thought the process was about trying to maximize odds of getting a generational talent. 

And during the exact same period of time, Minnesota got a "generational talent" in Townes without having to destroy the team.  New Orleans got a "generational talent" in The Brow, didn't need to Hinkie it up.  There have been a lot of "generational talents" in the history of the NBA and teams acquired them in the past without ever needing to throw away 4 or 5 years of their basketball existence.  And if it was about getting that "generational talent," why did they continue to tank even harder after drafting Embiid?

OKC got two "generational talents" in Durant and Westbrook and probably a third in Hardin and they only outright tanked for ONE YEAR.

Mike

[MBunge]

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660466695536640

https://twitter.com/blanchardJRB/status/810206523540566016

Not sure why anyone should care about those.  This is The Process:

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660183361851393

and of course there is Simmons too plus their two top 10 picks this year.  Okafor and Noel could be complete busts, which they aren't, and it won't matter if Embiid stays healthy and Simmons comes close to his potential.

The Process was never about building a contender or even winning one championship.  It was sold as doing something no one else had to achieve something beyond normal expectations.  If two of your top four picks in the process turn out to essentially be busts, you're not doing anything extraordinary.  You're just OKC east.  And while that's a pretty nice thing to be, is it worth throwing away 4 or 5 years of your basketball life? 

Mike

That's utter nonsense.  The goal of the process was to acquire stars to build a long term contender.  Hinkie never claimed he was doing anything extraordinary.  The whole point of tanking and acquiring lots of picks was the acknowledgement that picks often don't work out like you hope they would.  To maximize the chance of success, you have to maximize the quality and quantity of your picks. 

Hinkie was only GM for three seasons.  The Sixers are in a much better position than when he started.  If Embiid hadn't suffered his re-injury, Hinkie would probably still be their GM.  To call Okafor and Noel essentially busts is downright silly.  They're both going to be playing in the NBA for quite awhile.  To answer your question, becoming the OKC of the East is worth 4 or 5 years when they probably would have had at least 2 or 3 losing seasons anyway.   

That is simply rewriting history.  Hinkie and the Sixers absolutely sold this to their fans as something extraordinary.  That's why it was worth throwing away 4 or 5 years of their basketball lives.  NO ONE HAS EVER DONE ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE TO THAT.  There have been incompetent franchises that sucked for years, but no one before has ever deliberately set out to put the worst possible teams on the floor for multiple seasons in a row, just so they could try and get lucky in the draft.  NO ONE.

OKC didn't win a title.  They only made one trip to the Finals.  Now they're trying to rebuild.  If you think THAT is worth experiencing half-a-decade or more of some of the worst basketball the league has ever seen, I really have to question whether you even like the game.

Mike

[csfansince60s]

Philly had no leverage before their coach came out and said he is out of the rotation, which has left them with negative leverage.

It's so obvious that he is gone.

I think this situation has probably become worse than any of us could have imagined.

You reap what you sow.

[IDreamCeltics]

Is Nerlens Noel considerably better than Willy Cauley-Stein? That guy seems like a high character guy who would give us a bigger, more athletic, younger version of Amir Johnson.  He also would definitely be available and is on a rookie contact.

[gift]

Is Nerlens Noel considerably better than Willy Cauley-Stein? That guy seems like a high character guy who would give us a bigger, more athletic, younger version of Amir Johnson.  He also would definitely be available and is on a rookie contact.

I'm not sure how "high character" he is. He's proven even less in his career than Noel and has also griped about minutes in an overloaded frontcourt situation on a bad team.

But he's cheaper for longer and so I am much more interested in him than Noel.

[86MaxwellSmart]

I might trade Mickey, Young and Gerald Green+future Pick for Noel.

I might.

[jambr380]

If Noel wasn't from Boston, there would be a lot more people preferring WCS to him - the contract situation being the major tiebreaker, but not exactly trusting Noel's injury history either.

[Ilikesports17]

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660466695536640

https://twitter.com/blanchardJRB/status/810206523540566016

Not sure why anyone should care about those.  This is The Process:

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660183361851393

and of course there is Simmons too plus their two top 10 picks this year.  Okafor and Noel could be complete busts, which they aren't, and it won't matter if Embiid stays healthy and Simmons comes close to his potential.

The Process was never about building a contender or even winning one championship.  It was sold as doing something no one else had to achieve something beyond normal expectations.  If two of your top four picks in the process turn out to essentially be busts, you're not doing anything extraordinary.  You're just OKC east.  And while that's a pretty nice thing to be, is it worth throwing away 4 or 5 years of your basketball life? 

Mike

I thought the process was about trying to maximize odds of getting a generational talent. 

And during the exact same period of time, Minnesota got a "generational talent" in Townes without having to destroy the team.  New Orleans got a "generational talent" in The Brow, didn't need to Hinkie it up.  There have been a lot of "generational talents" in the history of the NBA and teams acquired them in the past without ever needing to throw away 4 or 5 years of their basketball existence.  And if it was about getting that "generational talent," why did they continue to tank even harder after drafting Embiid?

OKC got two "generational talents" in Durant and Westbrook and probably a third in Hardin and they only outright tanked for ONE YEAR.

Mike

Yeah, but the result of the process or past results of other process don't necessarily mean the hinkie process was right or wrong.

If I have a deck of cards and then take out 3 of the aces and ask you to guess a card, you better not choose ace. If you choose ace and I pull out an ace you were still wrong.

Philly maximized their odds of gaining a generational talent and they may have 2. That was the goal. However, this team needs to either win a ring or be true contenders (multiple finals trips) or else this rebuild was a failures

[Ilikesports17]

If Noel wasn't from Boston, there would be a lot more people preferring WCS to him - the contract situation being the major tiebreaker, but not exactly trusting Noel's injury history either.

Im not sure, Noel has substantially outperformed WCS at every level.

[mahcussmaht]

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660466695536640

https://twitter.com/blanchardJRB/status/810206523540566016

Not sure why anyone should care about those.  This is The Process:

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660183361851393

and of course there is Simmons too plus their two top 10 picks this year.  Okafor and Noel could be complete busts, which they aren't, and it won't matter if Embiid stays healthy and Simmons comes close to his potential.

The Process was never about building a contender or even winning one championship.  It was sold as doing something no one else had to achieve something beyond normal expectations.  If two of your top four picks in the process turn out to essentially be busts, you're not doing anything extraordinary.  You're just OKC east.  And while that's a pretty nice thing to be, is it worth throwing away 4 or 5 years of your basketball life? 

Mike

I thought the process was about trying to maximize odds of getting a generational talent. 

And during the exact same period of time, Minnesota got a "generational talent" in Townes without having to destroy the team.  New Orleans got a "generational talent" in The Brow, didn't need to Hinkie it up.  There have been a lot of "generational talents" in the history of the NBA and teams acquired them in the past without ever needing to throw away 4 or 5 years of their basketball existence.  And if it was about getting that "generational talent," why did they continue to tank even harder after drafting Embiid?

OKC got two "generational talents" in Durant and Westbrook and probably a third in Hardin and they only outright tanked for ONE YEAR.

Mike

Neither of your examples make any sense.   What are you talking about?

Minnesota had a player who was considered a superstar, Kevin Love, and traded him away putting themselves in position to tank for Towns.

The Pelicans had a player who was considered a superstar, Chris Paul, and traded him away putting themselves in position to tank for Anthony Davis.

The 76ers never had a superstar to trade away.  They traded away a fringe star in Jrue Holiday and have Dario Saric and Nerlens Noel as a result.  Like the other two examples, this also put them in position to tank for Joel Embiid. 

All three of those teams still suck.  They are all still "tanking".   Don't act like one is morally superior.  They aren't.

[MBunge]

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660466695536640

https://twitter.com/blanchardJRB/status/810206523540566016

Not sure why anyone should care about those.  This is The Process:

https://twitter.com/Dcorrigan50/status/810660183361851393

and of course there is Simmons too plus their two top 10 picks this year.  Okafor and Noel could be complete busts, which they aren't, and it won't matter if Embiid stays healthy and Simmons comes close to his potential.

The Process was never about building a contender or even winning one championship.  It was sold as doing something no one else had to achieve something beyond normal expectations.  If two of your top four picks in the process turn out to essentially be busts, you're not doing anything extraordinary.  You're just OKC east.  And while that's a pretty nice thing to be, is it worth throwing away 4 or 5 years of your basketball life? 

Mike

I thought the process was about trying to maximize odds of getting a generational talent. 

And during the exact same period of time, Minnesota got a "generational talent" in Townes without having to destroy the team.  New Orleans got a "generational talent" in The Brow, didn't need to Hinkie it up.  There have been a lot of "generational talents" in the history of the NBA and teams acquired them in the past without ever needing to throw away 4 or 5 years of their basketball existence.  And if it was about getting that "generational talent," why did they continue to tank even harder after drafting Embiid?

OKC got two "generational talents" in Durant and Westbrook and probably a third in Hardin and they only outright tanked for ONE YEAR.

Mike

Neither of your examples make any sense.   What are you talking about?

Minnesota had a player who was considered a superstar, Kevin Love, and traded him away putting themselves in position to tank for Towns.

The Pelicans had a player who was considered a superstar, Chris Paul, and traded him away putting themselves in position to tank for Anthony Davis.

The 76ers never had a superstar to trade away.  They traded away a fringe star in Jrue Holiday and have Dario Saric and Nerlens Noel as a result.  Like the other two examples, this also put them in position to tank for Joel Embiid. 

All three of those teams still suck.  They are all still "tanking".   Don't act like one is morally superior.  They aren't.

OKC didn't tank for FOUR YEARS.
NO didn't tank for FOUR YEARS.
Philly has now tanked for FOUR YEARS, with a decent probability that they will well and truly suck for at least one and possibly two more years.

THIS IS WHAT THE ENTIRE ARGUMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT.  Tanking after the all-star break and even tanking an entire season has been, for good or ill, an accepted part of the NBA landscape.  What Hinkie did was not.  He made very deliberate moves so that three years into "The Process," his team was significantly worse than when he started.  If that is the price being paid, what should it ultimately buy?  Is one title enough?  Two?  Four or five trips to the Finals?

Mike

[spikelovetheCelts]

If Noel wasn't from Boston, there would be a lot more people preferring WCS to him - the contract situation being the major tiebreaker, but not exactly trusting Noel's injury history either.

Im not sure, Noel has substantially outperformed WCS at every level.

WCS is one heck of an Athlete Noel is a Basketball Player. If we get Noel to sign a friendly contract I say get him cheap and do it.