Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?

[jpotter33]

If Ainge wanted Noel, he would have acquired him already. I believe he doesn't want to trade assets for a half year rental of Noel, and wouldn't want to spend cap space on re-signing him.

There is a difference between not wanting a player when he costs a lottery pick and taking on a player whose value has cratered. Noel is exactly what this team needs and worst case as a RFA they could decide to keep Noel at a decent deal and deal him next year. His value will never be lower than it is today.

Neither of these statements are necessarily true.  Ainge could be waiting as long as possible to get the best deal, Noel's value will continue to go down in the next 2 months leading to the deadline.

I don't think he's waiting due to trade value. I honestly don't know if his trade value can get much lower than it is right now, because getting some more playing time will actually raise his value. Hell, he had 5 rebounds and a block in 8 minutes last night. He's a pretty perfect fit in Portland right now, and he'd fit well here, too.

Rather, I think he's waiting as long as possible to see if any other big trade (like Boogie) opens up. He doesn't want to waste assets on someone like Noel and then have a Boogie trade open up. I'm guessing he also wants Noel to prove he's healthy, too, but if he hasn't been traded yet and Ainge can't get a bigger name, I would expect him to finally get Noel as a Plan B option rather than holding still at the deadline with our bigs situation.

Granted, between the night club stuff and him confronting that reporter, I'm finding it more and more doubtful that Ainge brings Boogie here.

[Csfan1984]

I don't see C's trading for Noel. No way he resigns there or agrees to QO. There fore just get him as a FA.

[TrueFan]

The Sixers most likely have trades in place for Noel.

They are either looking for better trades or waiting out whether Embiid can last til the trade deadline which makes a lot of sense.

The worst possible outcome for the Sixers is to trade Noel and then see Embiid go down with a serious re-injury. If a trade happens I'm predicting it won't happen until the deadline.

The Sixers will have a better idea on Embiid's durability by then.

[nickagneta]

If Ainge wanted Noel, he would have acquired him already. I believe he doesn't want to trade assets for a half year rental of Noel, and wouldn't want to spend cap space on re-signing him.

This is what I believe. Noel would have a fairly large cap hold and Danny wants to preserve cap space for a max player for next season. Now the new CBA could hurt his chances of getting a max player in free agency but you have to at least preserve the chance.

I think if a trade goes down it will only be a fairly close salary swap or expiring contract for expiring contract. That is of course if no trade for a superstar presents itself. If one does, then there is no need to preserve cap space.

I just dont see noel as part of our future for these reasons.

[SHAQATTACK]

We really should bring that kid out of that hell-hole called Philly.  Get him learning under our vets with DA watching out for him, his family I believe is near by.  I think he ll straighten up and be productive under new leadership .....real leadership....that Hinkie cesspool of horror

I think he would sign for a reasonable amount ....just to be with Celtics .....where he wanted to be in the first place.

Dump Zeller , trade off Sissy Kelly ......we'd have room ......then drop Amir .......sign Boogie.

[jpotter33]

If Ainge wanted Noel, he would have acquired him already. I believe he doesn't want to trade assets for a half year rental of Noel, and wouldn't want to spend cap space on re-signing him.

This is what I believe. Noel would have a fairly large cap hold and Danny wants to preserve cap space for a max player for next season. Now the new CBA could hurt his chances of getting a max player in free agency but you have to at least preserve the chance.

I think if a trade goes down it will only be a fairly close salary swap or expiring contract for expiring contract. That is of course if no trade for a superstar presents itself. If one does, then there is no need to preserve cap space.

I just dont see noel as part of our future for these reasons.

But what max-level free agent could we really bring in this summer? The only real possibility I see is Hayward, and he won't do anything for our major hole at the big position next to Horford. We'd at least have a competent starter next to Horford that would bring needed rim protection, rebounding, and athleticism.

Ainge could certainly feel this way, but I think it's foolish if he does. Griffin isn't coming here, and Ibaka/Milsap aren't going to be worth the money they get this summer, especially at their age. Plus, Noel's contract will almost certainly be nowhere near the max that it was once thought to be, which would help us in 2018 with our own free agents.

Finally, regarding Hayward, why would we get him when we have Brown that we're developing? I just think outside of a Cousins/Favors type deal, Noel is our best bet right now.

[bdm860]

I know Noel's frustrated, but complaining is not a good look for him, especially in his situation.

He's behind 2 better players in Okafor and Embiid.  They also have Saric whose a better offensive player than Noel.

You miss all of preseason and the first quarter of the regular season, you couldn't even play more than 10 minutes in your first game before you injured yourself again, now you're demanding to play more minutes in your 2nd game?

Granted I didn't watch the game, so I have no clue, but if his attitude when he was playing was anything like it is when he was being interviewed, not surprised he didn't get more minutes.  It's a crowded front court, you have to earn those minutes.

Think if Smart or Rozier or Brown were complaining about their minutes like that after missing 25 games?

[MBunge]

The reasons Noel hasn't been traded already are probably health and the box Philly put themselves in.  Essentially, the only assets they have are Noel, Embiid, Okafor and Simmons.  There's literally no one else on the roster anyone cares about, not even Saric, and they don't have anyone on the roster with even the potential of being a playoff caliber starter at point, shooting guard or small forward.

They have huge holes to fill but don't have anything except their core pieces to deal and three of those pieces all play the same position.  They need to trade one or two of them but they also need to get a serious return.  They need to trade Noel and/or Okafor and they need to get back potential playoff caliber starters at the guard and small forward spots, but no one is offering that.

Mike

[nickagneta]

If Ainge wanted Noel, he would have acquired him already. I believe he doesn't want to trade assets for a half year rental of Noel, and wouldn't want to spend cap space on re-signing him.

This is what I believe. Noel would have a fairly large cap hold and Danny wants to preserve cap space for a max player for next season. Now the new CBA could hurt his chances of getting a max player in free agency but you have to at least preserve the chance.

I think if a trade goes down it will only be a fairly close salary swap or expiring contract for expiring contract. That is of course if no trade for a superstar presents itself. If one does, then there is no need to preserve cap space.

I just dont see noel as part of our future for these reasons.

But what max-level free agent could we really bring in this summer? The only real possibility I see is Hayward, and he won't do anything for our major hole at the big position next to Horford. We'd at least have a competent starter next to Horford that would bring needed rim protection, rebounding, and athleticism.

Ainge could certainly feel this way, but I think it's foolish if he does. Griffin isn't coming here, and Ibaka/Milsap aren't going to be worth the money they get this summer, especially at their age. Plus, Noel's contract will almost certainly be nowhere near the max that it was once thought to be, which would help us in 2018 with our own free agents.

Finally, regarding Hayward, why would we get him when we have Brown that we're developing? I just think outside of a Cousins/Favors type deal, Noel is our best bet right now.

We shall see but I dont think this trade season is going to have much happening with the Celtics unless its a blockbuster or the type of trade I stated above. Something like Amir heading out with a pick for a better rebounding center on an expiring contract the Celtics wouldnt pick up next year. Maybe a Serge Ibaka if Orlando continues to stink.

[Endless Paradise]

Last night was just Noel's 1st 2nd game back but I thought Brett Brown bungled the situation.  In the 1st half Noel played 2 four minute stretches without Embiid or Noel which wasn't bad.  In the 2nd half, Noel didn't play at all even though there was a 4 or 5 minute stretch where Embiid and Okafor weren't on the floor. 

Having their 3 bigs isn't optimal but it doesn't take rocket science to work out a decent rotation where Embiid gets 28min and Okafor and Noel get at least 20min each.  At least one of their bigs should be on the court at all times.  Illyasova should not be getting 27 minutes when all three of their bigs are available.  The Noel/Embiid combo needs to be used quite a bit as it projects to be their best big combo.  Okafor/Embiid should be used too.  I would avoid playing the Okafor/Noel combo.

You're saying this like Ilyasova isn't by far the best floor spacer they have among their bigs. Embiid/Okafor shouldn't be played more; it's a bad combination.

This situation isn't Brown's fault by any means; he doesn't have an optimal big rotation. One of the three bigs has to go. It simply isn't tenable to keep all three and there's no use in pretending that it can work.

[jambr380]

Jpotter- you mentioned a couple of posts back that DA wouldn't want to acquire Noel because the possibility of trading for Cousins is still out there. I actually think DA (and Brad) would be happy to have both. We would have control over Noel's rights this offseason and also have Cousins under contract. There would be no need to save cap space for this offseason.

I think it has to be about what Philly is currently asking for. If he could be had for our 2018 first and James Young, you would think Danny would have pounced already. As has been stated, we don't want to give up big assets in a trade for Noel if we aren't necessarily going to re-sign him (because of Hayward, Blake, etc).

At this point, I actually think teams without cap space this offseason have the edge in acquiring Noel since they have nothing to lose by re-signing him. That is why getting Cousins might actually give us more of an edge.

[jpotter33]

Jpotter- you mentioned a couple of posts back that DA wouldn't want to acquire Noel because the possibility of trading for Cousins is still out there. I actually think DA (and Brad) would be happy to have both. We would have control over Noel's rights this offseason and also have Cousins under contract. There would be no need to save cap space for this offseason.

I think it has to be about what Philly is currently asking for. If he could be had for our 2018 first and James Young, you would think Danny would have pounced already. As has been stated, we don't want to give up big assets in a trade for Noel if we aren't necessarily going to re-sign him (because of Hayward, Blake, etc).

At this point, I actually think teams without cap space this offseason have the edge in acquiring Noel since they have nothing to lose by re-signing him. That is why getting Cousins might actually give us more of an edge.

Why would we need both, though? Do you think Noel's going to be getting "bench" money this summer?

[tazzmaniac]

Last night was just Noel's 1st 2nd game back but I thought Brett Brown bungled the situation.  In the 1st half Noel played 2 four minute stretches without Embiid or Noel which wasn't bad.  In the 2nd half, Noel didn't play at all even though there was a 4 or 5 minute stretch where Embiid and Okafor weren't on the floor. 

Having their 3 bigs isn't optimal but it doesn't take rocket science to work out a decent rotation where Embiid gets 28min and Okafor and Noel get at least 20min each.  At least one of their bigs should be on the court at all times.  Illyasova should not be getting 27 minutes when all three of their bigs are available.  The Noel/Embiid combo needs to be used quite a bit as it projects to be their best big combo.  Okafor/Embiid should be used too.  I would avoid playing the Okafor/Noel combo.

You're saying this like Ilyasova isn't by far the best floor spacer they have among their bigs. Embiid/Okafor shouldn't be played more; it's a bad combination.

This situation isn't Brown's fault by any means; he doesn't have an optimal big rotation. One of the three bigs has to go. It simply isn't tenable to keep all three and there's no use in pretending that it can work.

Who said anything about keeping all three?  The point is they have all three of them now so Brown needs to do a better job getting them all playing time.  They need Noel playing 20min+ so they can get a reasonable return for him before the deadline.  There is no excuse for having a 4 minute period with Embiid, Okafor and Noel all on the bench.  There is no excuse for not trying out the Noel/Embiid combo.  Embiid/Okafor is better than Illyasova/Okafor. 

[jpotter33]

Last night was just Noel's 1st 2nd game back but I thought Brett Brown bungled the situation.  In the 1st half Noel played 2 four minute stretches without Embiid or Noel which wasn't bad.  In the 2nd half, Noel didn't play at all even though there was a 4 or 5 minute stretch where Embiid and Okafor weren't on the floor. 

Having their 3 bigs isn't optimal but it doesn't take rocket science to work out a decent rotation where Embiid gets 28min and Okafor and Noel get at least 20min each.  At least one of their bigs should be on the court at all times.  Illyasova should not be getting 27 minutes when all three of their bigs are available.  The Noel/Embiid combo needs to be used quite a bit as it projects to be their best big combo.  Okafor/Embiid should be used too.  I would avoid playing the Okafor/Noel combo.

You're saying this like Ilyasova isn't by far the best floor spacer they have among their bigs. Embiid/Okafor shouldn't be played more; it's a bad combination.

This situation isn't Brown's fault by any means; he doesn't have an optimal big rotation. One of the three bigs has to go. It simply isn't tenable to keep all three and there's no use in pretending that it can work.

Who said anything about keeping all three?  The point is they have all three of them now so Brown needs to do a better job getting them all playing time.  They need Noel playing 20min+ so they can get a reasonable return for him before the deadline.  There is no excuse for having a 4 minute period with Embiid, Okafor and Noel all on the bench.  There is no excuse for not trying out the Noel/Embiid combo.  Embiid/Okafor is better than Illyasova/Okafor.

I want to see an Embiid/Noel frontcourt pairing. Could be a devastating defense, though I think they're still a bit problematic offensively.

[nickagneta]

Last night was just Noel's 1st 2nd game back but I thought Brett Brown bungled the situation.  In the 1st half Noel played 2 four minute stretches without Embiid or Noel which wasn't bad.  In the 2nd half, Noel didn't play at all even though there was a 4 or 5 minute stretch where Embiid and Okafor weren't on the floor. 

Having their 3 bigs isn't optimal but it doesn't take rocket science to work out a decent rotation where Embiid gets 28min and Okafor and Noel get at least 20min each.  At least one of their bigs should be on the court at all times.  Illyasova should not be getting 27 minutes when all three of their bigs are available.  The Noel/Embiid combo needs to be used quite a bit as it projects to be their best big combo.  Okafor/Embiid should be used too.  I would avoid playing the Okafor/Noel combo.

You're saying this like Ilyasova isn't by far the best floor spacer they have among their bigs. Embiid/Okafor shouldn't be played more; it's a bad combination.

This situation isn't Brown's fault by any means; he doesn't have an optimal big rotation. One of the three bigs has to go. It simply isn't tenable to keep all three and there's no use in pretending that it can work.

Who said anything about keeping all three?  The point is they have all three of them now so Brown needs to do a better job getting them all playing time.  They need Noel playing 20min+ so they can get a reasonable return for him before the deadline.  There is no excuse for having a 4 minute period with Embiid, Okafor and Noel all on the bench.  There is no excuse for not trying out the Noel/Embiid combo.  Embiid/Okafor is better than Illyasova/Okafor.

Teams have plenty of video on Noel. They dont need to see more so playing him minutes doesnt increase his value. What is bringing down his value at the moment is poor health and bad attitudes behind the scenes. Reports are Noel is a problem off court with many of his hangers on being trouble. Teams usually dont want to go near that.