What if you knew the Celts won't win a title?

[PhoSita]

I could also see a scenario where the best option might actually be to trade a Brooklyn pick even though that is counterintuitive to what you normally think of as a blow it up scenario.

Elaborate on this please.

[PhoSita]

Phosita, the 5 year timeline on this is pretty ridiculous. When Lebron went to the Heat it was said they would dominate the next decade. While they did dominate the East a team (mavericks) won when many thought they had zero chance. The Spurs also won it around a mostly aging core that most thought thought really had no chance (and the Spurs probably should have won a second one) Then Lebron left. That was the dynasty. They didn't even stay together as a team for 5 years.

You make a number of fair points here. 

I'm also not interested in arguing this particular point in this thread.


Maybe the Warriors will get broken up and the East will open up as well as LeBron declines.


But set that aside for a minute and answer the question: What if you knew the Celts weren't gonna win?  What then?

I'm interested in hearing about people's personal fan philosophies.  We can -- and should -- have this discussion about the long term competitive prospects of the Celts and the league as a whole.  That's not the main topic of the discussion I'm trying to have here.

[Moranis]

I could also see a scenario where the best option might actually be to trade a Brooklyn pick even though that is counterintuitive to what you normally think of as a blow it up scenario.

Elaborate on this please.

Sure, as an example, say a young guy who is talented makes it clear he won't re-sign with his team.  Say Boston likes said young players future potential more than a player available in the Brooklyn pick, so Boston decides to acquire the frustrated player.  That player still may not be ready to win now and thus is a trade for the future.  It would need to be a recent player still on a rookie contract.  Someone like Towns, Russell, Porzingis, Simmons, Embiid, etc.  Not saying this is a likely scenario or anything, but something like that.

[PhoSita]

I think given the new CBA that player would have to be on a monumentally dysfunctional team.  I'm not sure if even the Kings are so dysfunctional that a guy would make known well ahead of time he's gonna leave tens of millions on the table to leave town.

Either that, or it'd need to be a guy who is still young but was acquired by his current team after his rookie deal was over or waived.  But it's hard to imagine a guy like that being good enough to warrant trading a BRK pick.

[pearljammer10]

I think we are in a great position just because we have the beauty of doing both right now. We're one superstar away from being a legit contender and can be patient until that happens. In the meantime we have plenty of young players and future assets to watch and be patient with.

[Who]

Try to win a title.

A team is only interesting to me when it is on a course where it can realistically challenge for an NBA title. Where it is on that course can be many places. Early stages (1-2 young prospects), mid-stages (partial core of contender in place), late stages (one move away), final stages (among best in league). I am happy so long that is somewhere on that course and can realistically get to that final stage somewhere in the future.

If that is not possible, blow it up.
If that is possible, keep going. Keep trying.

[Who]

I am not tied to this current core of players at all. There is no Paul Pierce here.

Whether this current core stay here or not, I do not care. 

I am open to trading Isaiah or Horford for top young talent / top draft picks and rebuilding the core around fresh blood. I do not see this team bottoming out though. More like a step back (a few steps even) than starting over from scratch. If you could get a top 5 pick for Isaiah in a trade, still have the Brooklyn top 5 pick, Jaylen, Smart, Rozier and the 2018 Nets pick ... that is a good group to build a new look Celtics team around with an eye towards winning a title.

I am also open to trading that Nets pick (and/or Jaylen) for a proven star and building more for the here and now. Whichever opportunity presents itself as the best path forward to challenging for an NBA title.

[SHAQATTACK]

Tell me so,thing I don't already know .

[cltc5]

I am not tied to this current core of players at all. There is no Paul Pierce here.

Whether this current core stay here or not, I do not care. 

I am open to trading Isaiah or Horford for top young talent / top draft picks and rebuilding the core around fresh blood. I do not see this team bottoming out though. More like a step back (a few steps even) than starting over from scratch. If you could get a top 5 pick for Isaiah in a trade, still have the Brooklyn top 5 pick, Jaylen, Smart, Rozier and the 2018 Nets pick ... that is a good group to build a new look Celtics team around with an eye towards winning a title.

I am also open to trading that Nets pick (and/or Jaylen) for a proven star and building more for the here and now. Whichever opportunity presents itself as the best path forward to challenging for an NBA title.

100% this.  I'm done with this years group.  its time for Danny to start building a team not a bunch of moving parts

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I voted to blow it up, though I'd amend that option to include trading Smart as well.

[celticsclay]

Phosita, the 5 year timeline on this is pretty ridiculous. When Lebron went to the Heat it was said they would dominate the next decade. While they did dominate the East a team (mavericks) won when many thought they had zero chance. The Spurs also won it around a mostly aging core that most thought thought really had no chance (and the Spurs probably should have won a second one) Then Lebron left. That was the dynasty. They didn't even stay together as a team for 5 years.

You make a number of fair points here. 

I'm also not interested in arguing this particular point in this thread.


Maybe the Warriors will get broken up and the East will open up as well as LeBron declines.


But set that aside for a minute and answer the question: What if you knew the Celts weren't gonna win?  What then?

I'm interested in hearing about people's personal fan philosophies.  We can -- and should -- have this discussion about the long term competitive prospects of the Celts and the league as a whole.  That's not the main topic of the discussion I'm trying to have here.

I mean I am not trying to derail the thread, but a 5 year timeline is just too long to try and think about moves because you really have no idea who is going to be a great player 5 years from now and who is going to be washed up. I did make a separate thread about players aging and how that may be changing. Is IT still an all-star at 32 years old, or he is someone worse than Jamal Crawford unable to get his points off because he doesn't have the quickness anymore to make up for his height? Is Jaylen Brown a superstar in his prime at 25? Or is he more of Bruce Brown Tony Allen type. Is Embiid dominating the NBA averaging 30-14 for a 76ers dynasty or is he out of the league with a smashed foot.

I think given how much uncertainty there is in the NBA you can never kick the can down the road 5 years because in 5 years Towns and Davis have decided to form a super team with Russel Westbrook for the Lakers and you are competing with a super team crazier than anything the Warriors have now. I guess that is my answer. Just do the best you can in 2-3 year windows.

[PhoSita]

Try to win a title.

A team is only interesting to me when it is on a course where it can realistically challenge for an NBA title. Where it is on that course can be many places. Early stages (1-2 young prospects), mid-stages (partial core of contender in place), late stages (one move away), final stages (among best in league). I am happy so long that is somewhere on that course and can realistically get to that final stage somewhere in the future.

If that is not possible, blow it up.
If that is possible, keep going. Keep trying.

Do you see the Celts as one move away, or just a partial core?

[Who]

Try to win a title.

A team is only interesting to me when it is on a course where it can realistically challenge for an NBA title. Where it is on that course can be many places. Early stages (1-2 young prospects), mid-stages (partial core of contender in place), late stages (one move away), final stages (among best in league). I am happy so long that is somewhere on that course and can realistically get to that final stage somewhere in the future.

If that is not possible, blow it up.
If that is possible, keep going. Keep trying.

Do you see the Celts as one move away, or just a partial core?

Mid-stages, partial core.

[Rosco917]

It's difficult to remain competitive, and build and develop through the draft. Young players need playing time to develop, that makes remaining competitive that much more difficult.

I'm a bit annoyed at where we're sitting as a team right now. We're not developing our young group of players, Young, Nader, Mickey, etc in lieu of trying to make the playoffs, only to get outed in the first round.

Either continue to build by playing, and developing these younger players to give them the experience they need to hopefully peak into a contender, or decide they're not worth the time sooner rather than later, and place them.

That would not have included signing 30 year old Al Horford as a tease, and not following through, by leaving the team in need of veterans pieces to seriously challenge in the East.

I feel trying to do both will lead to years of mediocrity.

 

[Csfan1984]

I'm going with the continued slow rebuild. Basically keep trying to add talent at good prices. Eventually you will have a winner but I don't know how much of a window said team would have in repeating or winning more.