Spurs (12-3) at Celtics (9-6) Game #16 11/25/16

[jpotter33]

Watching this game, it did not seem that rebounding was as big of an issue today. I feel like it only seems that way because of the late LMA rebound over Avery, at which point the game was already over.

the rb was an issue because Lee had 7 offensive rbs ALONE, besides Horford none of the other bigs didn't have more than 3 rbs total and that was JJ who plays SF!!!

We were outrebounded by 10 in the 4th, too, so it didn't really occur until the end of the game, which would make it seem like not as much of a problem throughout the game.

[jpotter33]

Spurs outrebounded the C's 13-3 in the fourth quarter.

Brad needs to put a mandate onto Danny - get me some help in the big department. Even someone like Noel, who is due back any day now, would help us tremendously rather than being forced to play the corpse of Amir Johnson.

Noel might be an upgrade over Zeller rebounding wise, but he and Amir are very similar rebounders (Amir better offensive, Noel better defensive, roughly equal overall)

We need a good rebounder, not another average one

That may have been true prior to this year, but that's not nearly true this year. Amir has fallen off considerably, which is part of the problem. If he was as good as he was the last several years, then it wouldn't really be near as much of a problem as it is right now. When you compare the two now, there's no comparison with Noel being a much better rebounder.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Nerlens+Noel&player_id1_select=Nerlens+Noel&y1=2016&player_id1=noelne01&hint=Amir+Johnson&player_id2_select=Amir+Johnson&y2=2017&player_id2=johnsam01

             Noel 15-16     Amir 16-17

ORB%   8.2                 7.8

DRB%   22.2               13.5

TRB%    15.0               10.7

And that is Noel playing out of position at PF on an incredibly terrible team. It stands to reason that he'd only get better on the boards on a better team in the right position. He also provides great mobility and rim protection that we don't currently have outside of Horford.

So, yes, while Noel is not an elite rebounder, he is still a very good rebounder and would greatly benefit our team.

I don't think it's really fair to compare Amir's small sample from thus year with Noel's large sample from last year, though. They're very close using last year's numbers from both (and obviously you can't compare this year's because Noel hasn't played)

Sure, it's a smaller sample size, but do you really expect Amir to improve at all? It looks pretty clear that he's fallen off of a cliff athletically, which is clearly a reason why his overall rebounding numbers are down.

[Ilikesports17]

We took 10 more three pointers than them and were outrebounded by 10.  Most fouls happen when you attack the paint and mix it up inside.  Spurs are much bigger than us.  We settled for long range bombs and long jumpers that kept us out of the paint and limited our potential to draw fouls.  That's who our team is.  Don't whine about the foul disparity. Spurs are a better team. We should be proud we kept it close against one of the few real contenders in the league.  Nice game.  We still look like a solid 55 win team this year.

We also took 10 more overall shots than them, too, so in fact both teams took 57 two-pointers with them getting 9 more fouls. So your point isn't applicable here, and you just pretty much proved the point that they had an unfair shake on the fouls. Nice try, though. 

shots where fouls are called do not count as attempts, so San Antonio took at least a handful more 2 pointers.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

we didn't make every basket when we went inside and we still outscored Spurs 56-36 IN THE PAINT... apparently, we went inside more than they did.


Now, what was someone saying about not going inside? Right...

[max215]

we didn't make every basket when we went inside and we still outscored Spurs 56-36 IN THE PAINT... apparently, we went inside more than they did.


Now, what was someone saying about not going inside? Right...

Don't bring facts into this. They just mess with Lar's narrative.

[green_bballers13]

From what I saw, I think the C's missed a couple of key shots near the end, and Kawhi Leonard could do almost anything that he wanted. We don't have a player that is as good as him on both sides of the court. Horford is def. a tier below him.

[alldaboston]

Marcus quickly becoming the best passer on the C's.

Refs were terrible, or this will be the new league standard when defending IT. Grab, push

Man...do we need either a real center, or another big with some talent.

Bogut, man. I can't wait till we're allowed to trade Zeller.

[BitterJim]

Spurs outrebounded the C's 13-3 in the fourth quarter.

Brad needs to put a mandate onto Danny - get me some help in the big department. Even someone like Noel, who is due back any day now, would help us tremendously rather than being forced to play the corpse of Amir Johnson.

Noel might be an upgrade over Zeller rebounding wise, but he and Amir are very similar rebounders (Amir better offensive, Noel better defensive, roughly equal overall)

We need a good rebounder, not another average one

That may have been true prior to this year, but that's not nearly true this year. Amir has fallen off considerably, which is part of the problem. If he was as good as he was the last several years, then it wouldn't really be near as much of a problem as it is right now. When you compare the two now, there's no comparison with Noel being a much better rebounder.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Nerlens+Noel&player_id1_select=Nerlens+Noel&y1=2016&player_id1=noelne01&hint=Amir+Johnson&player_id2_select=Amir+Johnson&y2=2017&player_id2=johnsam01

             Noel 15-16     Amir 16-17

ORB%   8.2                 7.8

DRB%   22.2               13.5

TRB%    15.0               10.7

And that is Noel playing out of position at PF on an incredibly terrible team. It stands to reason that he'd only get better on the boards on a better team in the right position. He also provides great mobility and rim protection that we don't currently have outside of Horford.

So, yes, while Noel is not an elite rebounder, he is still a very good rebounder and would greatly benefit our team.

I don't think it's really fair to compare Amir's small sample from thus year with Noel's large sample from last year, though. They're very close using last year's numbers from both (and obviously you can't compare this year's because Noel hasn't played)

Sure, it's a smaller sample size, but do you really expect Amir to improve at all? It looks pretty clear that he's fallen off of a cliff athletically, which is clearly a reason why his overall rebounding numbers are down.

In short, yes. He had similar struggles in November of last year, but picked it up as the year went on.  Last year he averaged 5.5 rebounds in 23.5 mpg, almost 15% below his season average of 6.4 rebounds/game despite playing slightly more than his season average of 22.8 mpg.  The numbers this year are down (4.4 rebounds per game in 22.8 mpg this November), but given all of the injury issues this team has had it's hard to say if his average would be higher (or lower) had the Horford injury not happened.  I think he's a lot more likely to move toward his season average as the season goes on (although reaching his career averages after this slow start would be tough

I also think that Noel's numbers will drop significantly this year, now that he's coming off of a surgery and will be playing next to a very good big man in Joel Embiid (as opposed to last season, where he and Okafor rarely played together)

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get Noel and he'd hep our defense, but swapping him and Amir wouldn't be that much of a gain.  Swapping him and Zeller would be great, though

[Denis998]

Marcus quickly becoming the best passer on the C's.

Refs were terrible, or this will be the new league standard when defending IT. Grab, push

Man...do we need either a real center, or another big with some talent.

Bogut, man. I can't wait till we're allowed to trade Zeller.

Bogut really does sound perfect for this team.

[LarBrd33]

We took 10 more three pointers than them and were outrebounded by 10.  Most fouls happen when you attack the paint and mix it up inside.  Spurs are much bigger than us.  We settled for long range bombs and long jumpers that kept us out of the paint and limited our potential to draw fouls.  That's who our team is.  Don't whine about the foul disparity. Spurs are a better team. We should be proud we kept it close against one of the few real contenders in the league.  Nice game.  We still look like a solid 55 win team this year.

We also took 10 more overall shots than them, too, so in fact both teams took 57 two-pointers with them getting 9 more fouls. So your point isn't applicable here, and you just pretty much proved the point that they had an unfair shake on the fouls. Nice try, though. 

shots where fouls are called do not count as attempts, so San Antonio took at least a handful more 2 pointers.

yup

Whining about refs is the most pathetic thing fans do.  There's so many games you could claim we won because of favoritism from the refs.  Nobody ever talks about that.   

I don't see the point in being a sore loser.  San Antonio outplayed us.  They are a better team.  It is what it is.    Nice game.

[tarheelsxxiii]

The fact that we got schooled by the calcified remains of David Lee says it all, I think.

Yeah, anemic frontcourt.  We bruise easily.  Boxscore suggests Amir was chasing butterflies on the opposite end of the court, which is at least interesting..

Lol, good point.  TP, tar.  Happy Thanksgiving bro.

[alldaboston]

The fact that we got schooled by the calcified remains of David Lee says it all, I think.

Yeah, anemic frontcourt.  We bruise easily.  Boxscore suggests Amir was chasing butterflies on the opposite end of the court, which is at least interesting..

Lol, good point.  TP, tar.  Happy Thanksgiving bro.

huh?

[hwangjini_1]

we didn't make every basket when we went inside and we still outscored Spurs 56-36 IN THE PAINT... apparently, we went inside more than they did.


Now, what was someone saying about not going inside? Right...

Don't bring facts into this. They just mess with Lar's narrative.

cute, very cute. a tp for you.

it is amazing how often the game we think we see is not the game represented by stats...[dang] them! 

[Ilikesports17]

We took 10 more three pointers than them and were outrebounded by 10.  Most fouls happen when you attack the paint and mix it up inside.  Spurs are much bigger than us.  We settled for long range bombs and long jumpers that kept us out of the paint and limited our potential to draw fouls.  That's who our team is.  Don't whine about the foul disparity. Spurs are a better team. We should be proud we kept it close against one of the few real contenders in the league.  Nice game.  We still look like a solid 55 win team this year.

We also took 10 more overall shots than them, too, so in fact both teams took 57 two-pointers with them getting 9 more fouls. So your point isn't applicable here, and you just pretty much proved the point that they had an unfair shake on the fouls. Nice try, though. 

shots where fouls are called do not count as attempts, so San Antonio took at least a handful more 2 pointers.

yup

Whining about refs is the most pathetic thing fans do.  There's so many games you could claim we won because of favoritism from the refs.  Nobody ever talks about that.   

I don't see the point in being a sore loser.  San Antonio outplayed us.  They are a better team.  It is what it is.    Nice game.

I think its certainly possible that you can get the short end of the stick in any given game.

90% of the time it all evens out in the end.

Especially when you consider no one in this game is really a recipient of "superstar calls"

[Ilikesports17]

we didn't make every basket when we went inside and we still outscored Spurs 56-36 IN THE PAINT... apparently, we went inside more than they did.


Now, what was someone saying about not going inside? Right...

Don't bring facts into this. They just mess with Lar's narrative.

cute, very cute. a tp for you.

it is amazing how often the game we think we see is not the game represented by stats...[dang] them! 

I mean kinda.

We scored more in the paint but this doesnt mean we shot it more in the paint.

We took less 2 pointers than them and scored more in the paint which could also suggest that we were more physical and aggresive in the paint protecting the rim.

This would result in less scoring inside, but more free throws for San Antonio.

It all seems to check out.

Combine this with our defense which prides itself on toughness and physicality and the numbers crunch.

FWIW, I think we got the short end of the officiating stick tonight, but it all comes out in the wash. I mean we all talk all day about how Cleveland gets call after call, but last year we only win in Cle because of an absolutely bogus call against JR Smith on Evan Turner.