Celtics (8-6) at Nets (4-9) Game #15 11/23/16

[jpotter33]

Omg this is insane to me. First people here were complaining about Crowder?!?!? The dude shot 6-11 and was plus 13 for the game. It's funny how Bradley was plus 20, and Smart was plus 13, but yeah Smart is amazing and the energy right!!! I mean first, we played against a freaking scrub team. This is like a college basketball game for these players. Second, the Lbrrd bashing is uncalled for. Everything he is saying is pretty much true. I think it is pretty clear there is a lot of bias talk going around here.

The funniest thing was the end of shot clock talk for Smart. I mean KOZ HAS ALREADY POSTED STATS TO DISAPPROVE THIS MYTH.

I mean some people here just come up with stuff out of their butt. If you really want me to prove this, I can look for Koz's post.

My god, people now want Smart to start over Bradley. It's like I'm living in bizarro world. Smart has 8 assists tonight, and only tonight. It's not like he is averaging it. Also, he handles the ball a lot this year, and is averaging 33 minutes a game. So there isn't an excuse for him not to average it, but no. Let's bench Bradley for Smart?

Like what is going on? My head is about to explode because I really can't figure this out rationally. This is like Rajon Rondo all over again, except Rondo was a better player haha.

Perhaps some self-reflection is required. You're calling the majority of posters here who watched the game and praised Smart biased, yet you've been on a six month mission to try and discredit Smart yourself. Perhaps the claims of bias are misplaced. 

And you're clearly in the same camp as LarBrd33 with regard to a rather naive and juvenile sense of basketball analysis that relies solely on statistical interpretations, along with biased interpretations depending upon the player. It was absolutely clear last night that Smart dominated the game in every facet other than scoring, and even the Brooklyn announcers were praising him regarding his dominance. Serious question - do you guys even watch the games or just watch the box scores/highlights?

There comes a point when you're so outnumbered against your contrarian opinion that you need to simply reevaluate your perspective, no matter how firmly held it is. When he continues to play major minutes at crucial parts of the game and is continuously praised by other teams, perhaps he doesn't quite suck as much as you say he does.

And I think we all know that this irrational Smart hate is due in large part to your failed Rozier comparison where many on here obviously exaggerated his summer league and preseason play that has not translated to actual games, as many of us predicted.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I guess marcus doesnt care about his shooting percentage lol

Haha for real. Between stuff like that and shooting at the end of the shotclock all of the time, he unnecessarily kills his shooting percentages.

His shooting is as bad as it was last season.  His minutes are a little up this year.  Actually, if you look at his Per-36 numbers over the past 3 years it shows basically no improvement.  Maybe he'll make a leap though.  Still waiting.

the leap in shooting? Or the leap as a player?

Because he's clearly been PLAYING better recently.


His shooting is still blech-ish

Don't you know? Lar loves his fantasy stats guys.

I mean, this is the same guy who believes it's ok to use per 36 stats to evaluate Smart on his own, but it's not ok to use them to compare Smart and a young Ron Artest.

what do fantasy stats have to do with him shooting 20% tonight?   He's shown minimal improvement.  He was a solid role player his rookie year as well.  He's still a solid role player.

I think people forget that Marcus Smart was a quality defensive role player as a rookie.  People are finding progress that isn't necessarily there.   His basketball abilities, conventional stats, advanced stats, and his level impact on the game have remained pretty consistent since he entered the league.

I disagree. The stats are not really progressing, but his comfort with the ball, rhythm, and runners all look more consistent to me.

He was a spaz on offense as a rookie. He was out of control. He has largely been in control so far this season.

I think that has more to do with the supporting cast improving and having some key talent upgrades at some key positions.   Smart individually looks about the same as he's always looked.  His role is modified a bit.

Reading what you said further down, I really appreciate your views, but disagree on this point.

While his shooting form has been a little erratic this year, it is still much better than in previous years. While his shooting percentage has dipped over the last few games, we are winning and he is helping us win. Even though his shooting percentages are right about the same level as last year, his new form gives me hope that the results can be more consistent.

In the meantime, he is now able to make a big difference on offense with his distributing. I notice a distinct difference in his comfort level with the ball. He was playing loose last night, but his rookie year he was playing stiff, tight, and spastic. This allows Thomas to be off-ball, get open looks from three, and attack closeouts.

[chilidawg]

Jaylen's minutes have been in sharp decline.  What do you make of it?

You don't blame Stevens for this partially? I mean how is he supposed to prove himself in 4 minutes? Stevens has really hurt the development of all our young players. Mickey, Young, Hunter, go down the list. Players only improve playing against NBA competition. Takes time to get used to the speed. Look at D Russel last year. Took him some time to improve over the course of the year. Just sucks as a Celtics fan because we need a backup SF. There really is no reason he shouldn't be thrown out there and receive consistent minutes.

There is a very good reason, it's called trying to win games.  Brown was poor in his minutes, and didn't deserve second half minutes in a tight game.

[tankcity!]

Omg this is insane to me. First people here were complaining about Crowder?!?!? The dude shot 6-11 and was plus 13 for the game. It's funny how Bradley was plus 20, and Smart was plus 13, but yeah Smart is amazing and the energy right!!! I mean first, we played against a freaking scrub team. This is like a college basketball game for these players. Second, the Lbrrd bashing is uncalled for. Everything he is saying is pretty much true. I think it is pretty clear there is a lot of bias talk going around here.

The funniest thing was the end of shot clock talk for Smart. I mean KOZ HAS ALREADY POSTED STATS TO DISAPPROVE THIS MYTH.

I mean some people here just come up with stuff out of their butt. If you really want me to prove this, I can look for Koz's post.

My god, people now want Smart to start over Bradley. It's like I'm living in bizarro world. Smart has 8 assists tonight, and only tonight. It's not like he is averaging it. Also, he handles the ball a lot this year, and is averaging 33 minutes a game. So there isn't an excuse for him not to average it, but no. Let's bench Bradley for Smart?

Like what is going on? My head is about to explode because I really can't figure this out rationally. This is like Rajon Rondo all over again, except Rondo was a better player haha.

Perhaps some self-reflection is required. You're calling the majority of posters here who watched the game and praised Smart biased, yet you've been on a six month mission to try and discredit Smart yourself. Perhaps the claims of bias are misplaced. 

And you're clearly in the same camp as LarBrd33 with regard to a rather naive and juvenile sense of basketball analysis that relies solely on statistical interpretations, along with biased interpretations depending upon the player. It was absolutely clear last night that Smart dominated the game in every facet other than scoring, and even the Brooklyn announcers were praising him regarding his dominance. Serious question - do you guys even watch the games or just watch the box scores/highlights?

There comes a point when you're so outnumbered against your contrarian opinion that you need to simply reevaluate your perspective, no matter how firmly held it is. When he continues to play major minutes at crucial parts of the game and is continuously praised by other teams, perhaps he doesn't quite suck as much as you say he does.

And I think we all know that this irrational Smart hate is due in large part to your failed Rozier comparison where many on here obviously exaggerated his summer league and preseason play that has not translated to actual games, as many of us predicted.

I mean I was wrong in that Rozier doesn't get more minutes than Smart so Smart is clearly better right now. But Rozier has been better than you said he would be this year.

Second, you said Smart would average 14 points a game this year and 6 boards, 6 assists, shoot above 40%. YOU WERE WRONG TOO thus far.

You are clearly trying to make this personal, but I will not go there.

All I will say is time will tell. You first said he was an all star. Second, I think you just agreed with someone that we should start him over Bradley. If this is true, you must not have seen what happened to us in the playoffs last year without Bradley.

And how am I on a mission dude? He was playing good in the beginning of the year and I said he could be a future all star, and now he isn't playing like that? Like I just tell it how it is. HE"S A GREAT ROLE PLAYER. That is all. Nothing wrong with it. But don't try to make him out to be a top 4 player on this team because he isn't. He plays a role. That's it.

[jpotter33]

Omg this is insane to me. First people here were complaining about Crowder?!?!? The dude shot 6-11 and was plus 13 for the game. It's funny how Bradley was plus 20, and Smart was plus 13, but yeah Smart is amazing and the energy right!!! I mean first, we played against a freaking scrub team. This is like a college basketball game for these players. Second, the Lbrrd bashing is uncalled for. Everything he is saying is pretty much true. I think it is pretty clear there is a lot of bias talk going around here.

The funniest thing was the end of shot clock talk for Smart. I mean KOZ HAS ALREADY POSTED STATS TO DISAPPROVE THIS MYTH.

I mean some people here just come up with stuff out of their butt. If you really want me to prove this, I can look for Koz's post.

My god, people now want Smart to start over Bradley. It's like I'm living in bizarro world. Smart has 8 assists tonight, and only tonight. It's not like he is averaging it. Also, he handles the ball a lot this year, and is averaging 33 minutes a game. So there isn't an excuse for him not to average it, but no. Let's bench Bradley for Smart?

Like what is going on? My head is about to explode because I really can't figure this out rationally. This is like Rajon Rondo all over again, except Rondo was a better player haha.

Perhaps some self-reflection is required. You're calling the majority of posters here who watched the game and praised Smart biased, yet you've been on a six month mission to try and discredit Smart yourself. Perhaps the claims of bias are misplaced. 

And you're clearly in the same camp as LarBrd33 with regard to a rather naive and juvenile sense of basketball analysis that relies solely on statistical interpretations, along with biased interpretations depending upon the player. It was absolutely clear last night that Smart dominated the game in every facet other than scoring, and even the Brooklyn announcers were praising him regarding his dominance. Serious question - do you guys even watch the games or just watch the box scores/highlights?

There comes a point when you're so outnumbered against your contrarian opinion that you need to simply reevaluate your perspective, no matter how firmly held it is. When he continues to play major minutes at crucial parts of the game and is continuously praised by other teams, perhaps he doesn't quite suck as much as you say he does.

And I think we all know that this irrational Smart hate is due in large part to your failed Rozier comparison where many on here obviously exaggerated his summer league and preseason play that has not translated to actual games, as many of us predicted.

I mean I was wrong in that Rozier doesn't get more minutes than Smart so Smart is clearly better right now. But Rozier has been better than you said he would be this year.

Second, you said Smart would average 14 points a game this year and 6 boards, 6 assists, shoot above 40%. YOU WERE WRONG TOO thus far.

You are clearly trying to make this personal, but I will not go there.

All I will say is time will tell. You first said he was an all star. Second, I think you just agreed with someone that we should start him over Bradley. If this is true, you must not have seen what happened to us in the playoffs last year without Bradley.

And how am I on a mission dude? He was playing good in the beginning of the year and I said he could be a future all star, and now he isn't playing like that? Like I just tell it how it is. HE"S A GREAT ROLE PLAYER. That is all. Nothing wrong with it. But don't try to make him out to be a top 4 player on this team because he isn't. He plays a role. That's it.

Haha I think you're mistaken a bit on some things I've said.

1) I never agreed with someone that he should start over Bradley, because I don't really believe that. Bradley's better shooting is much more needed in the starting lineup than Smart's contributions, which would be limited due to IT handling the ball more. Smart's best role right now is leading the second unit as the primary ballhandler, which he has been excellent at thus far.

Now if Smart was two to three inches taller, then I'd definitely start him over Crowder.

2) Those are close to the numbers I suggested for Smart getting this year, but not quite right. I said something like (I'd have to find the exact thread to get exact numbers) 14.5 points, 5 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.6 steals, on 42 fg% and 33fg%. He's not quite there yet, but I still think he can get around those numbers. His last three games his scoring and shooting has really brought him down, but he's been excellent elsewhere and has helped contribute to wins.

It's still early. I still expect him to put up close to those numbers, especially after we trade Rozier for Noel or Boogie!

[tankcity!]

Omg this is insane to me. First people here were complaining about Crowder?!?!? The dude shot 6-11 and was plus 13 for the game. It's funny how Bradley was plus 20, and Smart was plus 13, but yeah Smart is amazing and the energy right!!! I mean first, we played against a freaking scrub team. This is like a college basketball game for these players. Second, the Lbrrd bashing is uncalled for. Everything he is saying is pretty much true. I think it is pretty clear there is a lot of bias talk going around here.

The funniest thing was the end of shot clock talk for Smart. I mean KOZ HAS ALREADY POSTED STATS TO DISAPPROVE THIS MYTH.

I mean some people here just come up with stuff out of their butt. If you really want me to prove this, I can look for Koz's post.

My god, people now want Smart to start over Bradley. It's like I'm living in bizarro world. Smart has 8 assists tonight, and only tonight. It's not like he is averaging it. Also, he handles the ball a lot this year, and is averaging 33 minutes a game. So there isn't an excuse for him not to average it, but no. Let's bench Bradley for Smart?

Like what is going on? My head is about to explode because I really can't figure this out rationally. This is like Rajon Rondo all over again, except Rondo was a better player haha.

Perhaps some self-reflection is required. You're calling the majority of posters here who watched the game and praised Smart biased, yet you've been on a six month mission to try and discredit Smart yourself. Perhaps the claims of bias are misplaced. 

And you're clearly in the same camp as LarBrd33 with regard to a rather naive and juvenile sense of basketball analysis that relies solely on statistical interpretations, along with biased interpretations depending upon the player. It was absolutely clear last night that Smart dominated the game in every facet other than scoring, and even the Brooklyn announcers were praising him regarding his dominance. Serious question - do you guys even watch the games or just watch the box scores/highlights?

There comes a point when you're so outnumbered against your contrarian opinion that you need to simply reevaluate your perspective, no matter how firmly held it is. When he continues to play major minutes at crucial parts of the game and is continuously praised by other teams, perhaps he doesn't quite suck as much as you say he does.

And I think we all know that this irrational Smart hate is due in large part to your failed Rozier comparison where many on here obviously exaggerated his summer league and preseason play that has not translated to actual games, as many of us predicted.

I mean I was wrong in that Rozier doesn't get more minutes than Smart so Smart is clearly better right now. But Rozier has been better than you said he would be this year.

Second, you said Smart would average 14 points a game this year and 6 boards, 6 assists, shoot above 40%. YOU WERE WRONG TOO thus far.

You are clearly trying to make this personal, but I will not go there.

All I will say is time will tell. You first said he was an all star. Second, I think you just agreed with someone that we should start him over Bradley. If this is true, you must not have seen what happened to us in the playoffs last year without Bradley.

And how am I on a mission dude? He was playing good in the beginning of the year and I said he could be a future all star, and now he isn't playing like that? Like I just tell it how it is. HE"S A GREAT ROLE PLAYER. That is all. Nothing wrong with it. But don't try to make him out to be a top 4 player on this team because he isn't. He plays a role. That's it.

Haha I think you're mistaken a bit on some things I've said.

1) I never agreed with someone that he should start over Bradley, because I don't really believe that. Bradley's better shooting is much more needed in the starting lineup than Smart's contributions, which would be limited due to IT handling the ball more. Smart's best role right now is leading the second unit as the primary ballhandler, which he has been excellent at thus far.

Now if Smart was two to three inches taller, then I'd definitely start him over Crowder.

2) Those are close to the numbers I suggested for Smart getting this year, but not quite right. I said something like (I'd have to find the exact thread to get exact numbers) 14.5 points, 5 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.6 steals, on 42 fg% and 33fg%. He's not quite there yet, but I still think he can get around those numbers. His last three games his scoring and shooting has really brought him down, but he's been excellent elsewhere and has helped contribute to wins.

It's still early. I still expect him to put up close to those numbers, especially after we trade Rozier for Noel or Boogie!

First, let's hope we do that trade because I would not think twice about it to be honest haha.

Second my friend, Smart is getting the rebounds you said, and to be perfectly honest I think he can make the jump to 5 assists a game. As for his points, he is averaging 10 a game. He is shooting 36% from the field and 31% from three. I want to point this out so all the posters see his stats.

Look, the main point is that if we are going to criticize Crowder when he ends up actually having a good game, then I don't see why we can't do the same for Smart? I think the arguement that will settle this all is when the real plus minus stat will come out. That should tell us the true impact Smart makes on a game. You guys are basically asking me to see what you are seeing. I don't truly see it. So how can we measure something you can only see with your eyes? That real plus minus stat should resolve all of this for us.

[tankcity!]

Here it is. The Real plus minus stat. Thomas is the highest Celtic, I don't even see Smart in the first two pages.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

[saltlover]

Here it is. The Real plus minus stat. Thomas is the highest Celtic, I don't even see Smart in the first two pages.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

That's nice. No stat is perfect, and that Tyler Zeller has triple the Defensive real Plus Minus than Smart has should be evidence enough of that for you.  I like statistics.  Using them is part of my job.  When you make estimations, they are just that.  Estimations.  A lot of times you'll get really good fits if you've done it well, but even then there are some results you know are missing something.  Looking at statistics requires common sense.  You don't reject them all because you have a couple of outliers, but you also don't say "it's perfect, we captured it all!"

[jpotter33]

Omg this is insane to me. First people here were complaining about Crowder?!?!? The dude shot 6-11 and was plus 13 for the game. It's funny how Bradley was plus 20, and Smart was plus 13, but yeah Smart is amazing and the energy right!!! I mean first, we played against a freaking scrub team. This is like a college basketball game for these players. Second, the Lbrrd bashing is uncalled for. Everything he is saying is pretty much true. I think it is pretty clear there is a lot of bias talk going around here.

The funniest thing was the end of shot clock talk for Smart. I mean KOZ HAS ALREADY POSTED STATS TO DISAPPROVE THIS MYTH.

I mean some people here just come up with stuff out of their butt. If you really want me to prove this, I can look for Koz's post.

My god, people now want Smart to start over Bradley. It's like I'm living in bizarro world. Smart has 8 assists tonight, and only tonight. It's not like he is averaging it. Also, he handles the ball a lot this year, and is averaging 33 minutes a game. So there isn't an excuse for him not to average it, but no. Let's bench Bradley for Smart?

Like what is going on? My head is about to explode because I really can't figure this out rationally. This is like Rajon Rondo all over again, except Rondo was a better player haha.

Perhaps some self-reflection is required. You're calling the majority of posters here who watched the game and praised Smart biased, yet you've been on a six month mission to try and discredit Smart yourself. Perhaps the claims of bias are misplaced. 

And you're clearly in the same camp as LarBrd33 with regard to a rather naive and juvenile sense of basketball analysis that relies solely on statistical interpretations, along with biased interpretations depending upon the player. It was absolutely clear last night that Smart dominated the game in every facet other than scoring, and even the Brooklyn announcers were praising him regarding his dominance. Serious question - do you guys even watch the games or just watch the box scores/highlights?

There comes a point when you're so outnumbered against your contrarian opinion that you need to simply reevaluate your perspective, no matter how firmly held it is. When he continues to play major minutes at crucial parts of the game and is continuously praised by other teams, perhaps he doesn't quite suck as much as you say he does.

And I think we all know that this irrational Smart hate is due in large part to your failed Rozier comparison where many on here obviously exaggerated his summer league and preseason play that has not translated to actual games, as many of us predicted.

I mean I was wrong in that Rozier doesn't get more minutes than Smart so Smart is clearly better right now. But Rozier has been better than you said he would be this year.

Second, you said Smart would average 14 points a game this year and 6 boards, 6 assists, shoot above 40%. YOU WERE WRONG TOO thus far.

You are clearly trying to make this personal, but I will not go there.

All I will say is time will tell. You first said he was an all star. Second, I think you just agreed with someone that we should start him over Bradley. If this is true, you must not have seen what happened to us in the playoffs last year without Bradley.

And how am I on a mission dude? He was playing good in the beginning of the year and I said he could be a future all star, and now he isn't playing like that? Like I just tell it how it is. HE"S A GREAT ROLE PLAYER. That is all. Nothing wrong with it. But don't try to make him out to be a top 4 player on this team because he isn't. He plays a role. That's it.

Haha I think you're mistaken a bit on some things I've said.

1) I never agreed with someone that he should start over Bradley, because I don't really believe that. Bradley's better shooting is much more needed in the starting lineup than Smart's contributions, which would be limited due to IT handling the ball more. Smart's best role right now is leading the second unit as the primary ballhandler, which he has been excellent at thus far.

Now if Smart was two to three inches taller, then I'd definitely start him over Crowder.

2) Those are close to the numbers I suggested for Smart getting this year, but not quite right. I said something like (I'd have to find the exact thread to get exact numbers) 14.5 points, 5 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.6 steals, on 42 fg% and 33fg%. He's not quite there yet, but I still think he can get around those numbers. His last three games his scoring and shooting has really brought him down, but he's been excellent elsewhere and has helped contribute to wins.

It's still early. I still expect him to put up close to those numbers, especially after we trade Rozier for Noel or Boogie!

First, let's hope we do that trade because I would not think twice about it to be honest haha.

Second my friend, Smart is getting the rebounds you said, and to be perfectly honest I think he can make the jump to 5 assists a game. As for his points, he is averaging 10 a game. He is shooting 36% from the field and 31% from three. I want to point this out so all the posters see his stats.

Look, the main point is that if we are going to criticize Crowder when he ends up actually having a good game, then I don't see why we can't do the same for Smart? I think the arguement that will settle this all is when the real plus minus stat will come out. That should tell us the true impact Smart makes on a game. You guys are basically asking me to see what you are seeing. I don't truly see it. So how can we measure something you can only see with your eyes? That real plus minus stat should resolve all of this for us.

Crowder's game is criticized as much for his defense as anything else, especially this year. He's been particularly bad defensively this year, though how much of that is due to his ankle is unknown. He's also criticized for his shot selection and his lack of versatility offensively, since he's pretty much just a catch and shoot guy. Further, Crowder only made some shots later in the game to bring his overall stats up, which covered up a pretty "meh" game for him overall.

Other than questionable shot selection at times, those are things that you can rarely criticize Smart for. His defense is almost always at an elite level, and as he has shown this year, he's a very good playmaker and passer who is very good at controlling the ball. So the things he does need much improvement in (shooting and scoring) he does get regularly criticized for on here, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he doesn't get criticized like others do.

[jpotter33]

Here it is. The Real plus minus stat. Thomas is the highest Celtic, I don't even see Smart in the first two pages.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

That's nice. No stat is perfect, and that Tyler Zeller has triple the Defensive real Plus Minus than Smart has should be evidence enough of that for you.  I like statistics.  Using them is part of my job.  When you make estimations, they are just that.  Estimations.  A lot of times you'll get really good fits if you've done it well, but even then there are some results you know are missing something.  Looking at statistics requires common sense.  You don't reject them all because you have a couple of outliers, but you also don't say "it's perfect, we captured it all!"

To compound this issue, in a team sport like basketball many stats are very context-dependent and ultimately depend upon both the lineup out there and the lineup of the opposition. So trying to truly isolate one individual's play out of that is a pretty difficult task and not always truly representative of that individual's skillset.

[Vox_Populi]

Here it is. The Real plus minus stat. Thomas is the highest Celtic, I don't even see Smart in the first two pages.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

That's nice. No stat is perfect, and that Tyler Zeller has triple the Defensive real Plus Minus than Smart has should be evidence enough of that for you.  I like statistics.  Using them is part of my job.  When you make estimations, they are just that.  Estimations.  A lot of times you'll get really good fits if you've done it well, but even then there are some results you know are missing something.  Looking at statistics requires common sense.  You don't reject them all because you have a couple of outliers, but you also don't say "it's perfect, we captured it all!"

Also, RPM fluctuates wildly on a per game basis this early. After 40 games, it'll come close to even out. For now, it varies too much to be too reliable.

[tankcity!]

Here it is. The Real plus minus stat. Thomas is the highest Celtic, I don't even see Smart in the first two pages.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

That's nice. No stat is perfect, and that Tyler Zeller has triple the Defensive real Plus Minus than Smart has should be evidence enough of that for you.  I like statistics.  Using them is part of my job.  When you make estimations, they are just that.  Estimations.  A lot of times you'll get really good fits if you've done it well, but even then there are some results you know are missing something.  Looking at statistics requires common sense.  You don't reject them all because you have a couple of outliers, but you also don't say "it's perfect, we captured it all!"

So there is nothing I can do except use my eyes to determine Smart's value? Is there anything that we can use to determine how good Smart is? Because you are basically asking me to watch the game from your POV. I don't think that is fair, nor would that work in any debate. I really will take anything at this point.

Do you know what I mean? I feel like you guys are not accepting an statistical measurement. We threw up his assists stats for tonight, but he is averaging 4 a game while playing 32 minutes a game. I just don't think the arguement has been fair since I'm not allowed to use most measurements. I don't know how else to debate this topic?

[tankcity!]

Here is last year's regular plus minus stat. Evan turner has a higher regular plus minus last year.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/stats/individual-player-plus-minus-statistics/2015/

[tankcity!]

Here is last years defensive rating stat. Evan Turner was higher last year in this as well for the Celtics.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2015&category=ADVANCED&group=1&sort=5&pos=0&team=0&qual=1

[tankcity!]

Here is last year's steal % stat. Smart is 19, which isn't bad. But it's not elite. Also Crowder was 18.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2015&category=ADVANCED&group=1&sort=14&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0