Author Topic: marcus in the paint--  (Read 4973 times)

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marcus in the paint--
« on: November 17, 2016, 07:15:29 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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for all those doubters marcus looks just plain old comfortable in paint,previous game it was baseline post ups,last night floaters in the lane and his steal so timely while he backed off and let isaiah take over
marcus had some nice passes turn into missed shots-so stats will say one thing but my eyes saw something else-

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 07:34:41 AM »

Offline jambr380

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for all those doubters marcus looks just plain old comfortable in paint,previous game it was baseline post ups,last night floaters in the lane and his steal so timely while he backed off and let isaiah take over
marcus had some nice passes turn into missed shots-so stats will say one thing but my eyes saw something else-

That last point is especially true. Marcus had a number of passes that led to open shots for his teammates (that they subsequently missed). I haven't even looked at the assist numbers, but I know they do not do him justice.

Marcus is certainly a unique player, especially for his age. He is as competitive on defense that you will ever find and he is quite unselfish on offense. He may not ever be a superstar, but he is definitely the kind of player you want on your side when fighting for a championship.

And, I agree, he looks a bit more comfortable in the lane this year. Hopefully he can continue to draw contact on his drives, as well.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2016, 01:18:02 AM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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His free throw shooting has been off. He is 8-17, but last year he hit 129-166 for 77.7%.

He is shooting 32.6% for threes and up to 46.8% on twos. He is at an even 40% overall for shooting. I'd like to see if he can become more efficient. We're lucky to have him. It's up in the air if he'll become a more consistent shooter like Crowder seems to have developed into. Those guys are so good defensively, they don't have to be perfect on offense. They just can't all suck at the same time.

I hope Brad starts Olynyk and rests Amir more when Horford gets back. He better or it will be a Brad flaw like starting Lee and Zeller. Plus, I get the feeling Amir is fragile like KG was. He is solid. We'll need Amir Johnson ready to go in the playoffs if we want a realistic chance at the Cinderella finish. I can only view this from year to year, trading deadline to trading deadline. I am not wearing green goggles, but I am saying this has been bad luck so far for 2016/17 with both our best player and top glue guy out for extended periods of time.

Yes, I submit to Celtics Blog the injury card. If Al and Jae get back, we will win tomorrow against GS (or come close to hedge my bet), and we will start winning games. I believe we'll look back at this as a bump in the road. There has been plenty of player evaluation. Only Zeller seems to have boxed himself into a concrete ceiling of mediocrity.

Tyler is simply not good enough to be better than a third center. He's had plenty of time to become more consistent on defense. Olynyk passes the eye test for being a much better player than him. I already notice Brad is tired of Zeller. He is bottom third for roster value. The truth hurts. At least we know. He doesn't provide much value other than his contract runs out and he could be trade filler.

Jaylen Brown needs to get his minutes. I think he should have started over Smart, but maybe Brad didn't want to take the chance of ruining his confidence. Brown looks NBA ready made. He plays smart. He is so much better than Gerald Green and James Young, it's not even close.

I saw Young had the game of his career. The next one or two, he looked like the same guy just happy to be on an NBA team.

Jaylen Brown is a can't miss prospect. I truly believe he will become one of the best players in the league.

It seems obvious to me that Jaylen is our best asset and no one else comes close.

Horford is starting the back nine of his career and Isaiah is average at best on defense. I will say Isaiah is close to as good as Pressey was for a little guy.

I can't believe how good and smart Jaylen is. Marcus Smart to me is more up in the air until he proves he can shoot.

I guess it's now all on Danny to figure out who to keep, what to prune, etc., to make it all work under the CBA and have a top team like we did in 2008 and the Larry Bird era. Things are looking good. We just need a little more luck and time. Zizac looks good. Maybe Yabusele has what it takes.

I would like to see more Jordan Mickey unless the opposing center is too tall or big forcing Brad to go to Zeller. I wish Horford would come back soon. And Jae.

I see a lot of doom and gloom on this forum and it's simply not true. The Celtics are still sitting pretty.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2016, 09:56:51 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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In terms of assists, those things tend to even out over time. So whatever his assist numbers are, that's what they are.

But I've heard no mention at all about smart basically getting abused by Barnes.  Had to put Avery on him to try and slow him down.  Smarts defense is way overrated around here.  Is he good?  Sure.  But people talk him up like the defensive Moses. 

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2016, 10:00:21 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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In terms of assists, those things tend to even out over time. So whatever his assist numbers are, that's what they are.

But I've heard no mention at all about smart basically getting abused by Barnes.  Had to put Avery on him to try and slow him down.  Smarts defense is way overrated around here.  Is he good?  Sure.  But people talk him up like the defensive Moses.

did you not watch the last 2 minutes when Bradley also got burned by Barnes and then Smart switched back on him, just to get a steal and Barnes cooled down right after that?

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2016, 01:06:22 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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Height cannot be taught. This is why small ball is a very dangerous strategy to count on. Pitino thought he could win in the NBA with a full court press and shooting three pointers. The only gimmick that seemed to work was Phil Jackson's use of the triangle. Yet, maybe any style would have worked if you had Shaq and Kobe on the same team or Michael Jordan getting star calls in a watered down league.

Small ball is something that is good to have in one's bag of tricks. But if it is the overall team strategy, that means the coach feels there is no other choice. And that's what happened with Barnes because Jae is injured and Jaylen Brown is a rookie.

This is painful because we were only about a week or two into the season and we lost 40% of the starting lineup including Horford. We can only afford to lose players when there is depth at the specific positions or the opponent is not strong at what we are missing due to injury.

Gerald Green shows me next to nothing for defense. He should have had a breakout game or Brown. We could have easily lost if Barnes had shot better.

I am not confident in starting Isaiah, Avery and Marcus together. I watched Doc Rivers play a lot of three guard lineups, but I think Doc's idea was to have the best players on the court as if height doesn't matter. I don't sense Brad does it for the same reason, but more because it is what it is and survival while key guys are out.

It's getting close to when Danny is going to have to make some tough decisions in order to maximize the current team. Maybe Nader with his wing span could have covered Barnes? I imagine Brandon Bass in other years might have been given a chance. Jordan Mickey could have tried? I am not sure.

Danny could have signed Zizac. We might have a better record right now despite losing Horford.

Evan Turner is not very good at defense. He probably still would've been a better option than anyone else currently on the roster, but that's not saying much.

People complained about Phil Pressey taking up a roster spot, but he was value for the 15th player. James Young simply takes up space. We don't need more than Green or Young for one scrub to be the third small forward/tall shooting guard.

Maybe Danny is a cheapskate (or tough negotiator sounds nicer) and learned that from Red. I'd like to see Danny cut strings more like he did with Humphries, Bass, Turner and Sully. I was shocked that Young was kept. I figured RJ deserved another year and a chance to grow into an NBA body.

We needed a tall shooting guard. Datome seemed decent enough.

Isaiah, Avery and Smart are a good three-fourths of a guard rotation, but we are missing a tall guard and that makes us vulnerable.

We got by one or two years with Sully, Olynyk, Zeller with Bass/Humphries, but at some point one gets tired of always having to be David against Goliath.

Danny wants to create value out of every asset even when it would make sense to just move on.

Instead of Zeller and Young, we could have had Zizac and Nader.

In Danny's defense, he couldn't have known Horford and Crowder would get hurt.

I am not too worried. No team can survive long after losing two of its best players. We are simply in a holding pattern treading water. We won't know what we have until we're back to full-strength.

This actually makes sense. We do have great depth and that's why we are still a playoff team despite the losses of Horford and Crowder.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2016, 02:18:52 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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In terms of assists, those things tend to even out over time. So whatever his assist numbers are, that's what they are.

But I've heard no mention at all about smart basically getting abused by Barnes.  Had to put Avery on him to try and slow him down.  Smarts defense is way overrated around here.  Is he good?  Sure.  But people talk him up like the defensive Moses.

did you not watch the last 2 minutes when Bradley also got burned by Barnes and then Smart switched back on him, just to get a steal and Barnes cooled down right after that?

Smart has two inches and 40ish pounds on Bradley. They are near equal on defense so who would think better defends someone who is 6'8?
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Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 03:13:07 PM »

Offline celtics2030

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It is simple logic.

Ray Allen was known as a notoriously terrible defender. Was he? Possibly, but .....

Joe Johnson a 6 foot 8ish shooting player roasted Avery Bradley in the playoffs and matchups during the season. Bradley is barely 6'2.5 at best

The issue is simple these guys are too short....

For instance Ray Allen fared well vs guys like Kobe Bryant , because at least he was at the same height level.

Marcus or Bradley cannot use the quickness and ferociousness on guys like that because its the finesse and advantage that will destroy them.

Which is why If Ray has to guard a guy like IT or Curry , he will get burned way more than a Kobe type player.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 04:16:18 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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It is simple logic.

Ray Allen was known as a notoriously terrible defender. Was he? Possibly, but .....

Joe Johnson a 6 foot 8ish shooting player roasted Avery Bradley in the playoffs and matchups during the season. Bradley is barely 6'2.5 at best

The issue is simple these guys are too short....

For instance Ray Allen fared well vs guys like Kobe Bryant , because at least he was at the same height level.

Marcus or Bradley cannot use the quickness and ferociousness on guys like that because its the finesse and advantage that will destroy them.

Which is why If Ray has to guard a guy like IT or Curry , he will get burned way more than a Kobe type player.
I agree with your overall point. Marcus and Avery can gaurd anyone for short stretches because their anticipation quickness(Avery) and Strength(Marcus) can knock guys off their games and surprise them. Both guys can force players into traditionally tough long midrange shots. Problem is big-time guys make those shots with regularity when they can see clean over the defense.

We saw it last year with Smart on Durant. We started to see it this year with Smart on Melo. We saw it last year with Johnson on Bradley and we saw it the other night with Barnes over both of them.

Again for a few possesions I think both guys can knock anyone off their game, but give a 6'8" player a few possesions to figure out how to get their shots off and theres not much Marcus and Avery can do.

Im not sure its fair to say JOhnson lit up Bradley in the playoffs. This Avery Bradley is a different and much stronger player than the 2012 Bradley. Also, while Johnson scored 17ppg he shot just 37% and turned it over 3 times a game.

I dont remember how much bradley covered him.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 06:18:25 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I've heard no mention at all about smart basically getting abused by Barnes.  Had to put Avery on him to try and slow him down.  Smarts defense is way overrated around here.

Barnes just got hot. He's 6 inches taller than Smart, so there isn't a lot Smart can do if he's knocking down contested fade aways. Smart is an unbelievable defender, but he isn't Kawhi Leonard. He has his limitations.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 07:53:25 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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In terms of assists, those things tend to even out over time. So whatever his assist numbers are, that's what they are.

But I've heard no mention at all about smart basically getting abused by Barnes.  Had to put Avery on him to try and slow him down.  Smarts defense is way overrated around here.  Is he good?  Sure.  But people talk him up like the defensive Moses.

did you not watch the last 2 minutes when Bradley also got burned by Barnes and then Smart switched back on him, just to get a steal and Barnes cooled down right after that?
Smart made ONE play while getting abused the rest of the night.  While I'm sure many want to point to the one play, it doesn't really make up for what happened until then.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 07:58:24 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I've heard no mention at all about smart basically getting abused by Barnes.  Had to put Avery on him to try and slow him down.  Smarts defense is way overrated around here.

Barnes just got hot. He's 6 inches taller than Smart, so there isn't a lot Smart can do if he's knocking down contested fade aways. Smart is an unbelievable defender, but he isn't Kawhi Leonard. He has his limitations.
At least you're honest.  Like I said, the way people talk about him you'd think smart was the greatest defender ever.  Walk on water type stuff.  And while Barnes I guess got hot, there was a reason for that.  He basically got the shot he wanted every time.  Nothing smart could do about it.  And yes, Barnes is bigger but how many people mention last years playoff against the Hawks when pumping up his defense.  Fact is, that's not something smart can actually sustain.

Anyway, the point is that smart isn't as good of a defender than people think.  And that defense [dang] sure won't make up for bad offense.  But yeah, he is definitely showing some progress on the offensive end.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2016, 01:40:23 AM »

Offline iadera

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Marcus is injured. Ankle again.

Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2016, 03:22:17 AM »

Offline LilRip

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I've heard no mention at all about smart basically getting abused by Barnes.  Had to put Avery on him to try and slow him down.  Smarts defense is way overrated around here.

Barnes just got hot. He's 6 inches taller than Smart, so there isn't a lot Smart can do if he's knocking down contested fade aways. Smart is an unbelievable defender, but he isn't Kawhi Leonard. He has his limitations.
At least you're honest.  Like I said, the way people talk about him you'd think smart was the greatest defender ever.  Walk on water type stuff.  And while Barnes I guess got hot, there was a reason for that.  He basically got the shot he wanted every time.  Nothing smart could do about it.  And yes, Barnes is bigger but how many people mention last years playoff against the Hawks when pumping up his defense.  Fact is, that's not something smart can actually sustain.

Anyway, the point is that smart isn't as good of a defender than people think.  And that defense [dang] sure won't make up for bad offense.  But yeah, he is definitely showing some progress on the offensive end.

What are u talking about? Smart is definitely one of the better team and individual defenders in the league, particularly at the guard position. Barnes just got hot. It happens when u go up against scorers. Besides, Barnes scored on Avery too.

And I don't think it's something Smart can sustain but the fact that he can go out and be effective for stretches is a feat in itself. For example, as all worldly of a defender Kevin Garnett was in his prime, I don't think he could've guarded a player like Steph Curry for a full game. But I bet he could for stints.

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Re: marcus in the paint--
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2016, 07:45:20 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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You guys are aware that the short guy had 10 boards against GS.

I agree he was too short on Defense  against KT but he plays larger than his size and always had.  I agree that small ball is a gimmick and I think other teams have got big and punish teams that over-rely on it.