Interesting Statistical Comparison (TP available too!)

[fairweatherfan]

IT and AI?

Player A is Allen Iverson through his first six seasons.

Player B is Isaiah Thomas.

https://t.co/C942GUP03i

That's it - I looked up AI's numbers but they weren't quite the same as quoted. It's the "through 6 seasons" that threw me.

[bdm860]

IT and AI?

Player A is Allen Iverson through his first six seasons.

Player B is Isaiah Thomas.

https://t.co/C942GUP03i

IT will be in pretty good company if he can keep it up all year.  Alvan Adams, Gilbert Arenas, and some other scrubs.

[max215]

IT and AI?

Player A is Allen Iverson through his first six seasons.

Player B is Isaiah Thomas.

https://t.co/C942GUP03i

IT will be in pretty good company if he can keep it up all year.  Alvan Adams, Gilbert Arenas, and some other scrubs.

This is why I just can't accept the claims that he's a sixth man. Offensively, it's pretty hard to find better players than Isaiah Thomas.

Edit: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=6&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=pts_per_mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=trb_per_mp&c3comp=gt&c3val=3&c4stat=per&c4comp=gt&c4val=19&c6mult=1.0&order_by=per

[max215]

IT and AI?

Player A is Allen Iverson through his first six seasons.

Player B is Isaiah Thomas.

https://t.co/C942GUP03i

IT will be in pretty good company if he can keep it up all year.  Alvan Adams, Gilbert Arenas, and some other scrubs.

This is why I just can't accept the claims that he's a sixth man. Offensively, it's pretty hard to find better players than Isaiah Thomas.

Edit: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=6&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=pts_per_mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=trb_per_mp&c3comp=gt&c3val=3&c4stat=per&c4comp=gt&c4val=19&c6mult=1.0&order_by=per

Obviously these cutoffs are arbitrary, but still: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=6&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=pts_per_mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=5&c3stat=ts_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=.57&c4stat=per&c4comp=gt&c4val=19&c6mult=1.0&order_by=per

[Moranis]

Iverson was a league MVP and had taken a team to the Finals 6 years into his career.  Iverson was a much better defender than Thomas as well.   Iverson was a starter playing starters minutes, Thomas came off the bench over 100 games. 

And again, Iverson took a team of himself, an old Dikembe, and scrubs to the NBA Finals.  I mean have you looked at who was starting for that Sixers team in the playoffs it is worse than the team James took the Finals his stint in Cleveland. 

When you are carrying a team for 40+ minutes a night, your efficiency is hurt.  Iverson was never an efficient player, but his two years in Denver playing with Anthony were by far his most efficient shooting seasons (and frankly it isn't that close).  Those were outside of his first sixe years so aren't in those numbers.

There is also just so much difference between 23 shots a game and 13 shots a game and what that does to someone's efficiency. 

No one will suggest Thomas isn't a more efficient shooter than Iverson, but Thomas never had to carry the load like Iverson either and you lose that perspective when you look at per 36 numbers.

[max215]

Iverson was a league MVP and had taken a team to the Finals 6 years into his career.  Iverson was a much better defender than Thomas as well.   Iverson was a starter playing starters minutes, Thomas came off the bench over 100 games. 

And again, Iverson took a team of himself, an old Dikembe, and scrubs to the NBA Finals.  I mean have you looked at who was starting for that Sixers team in the playoffs it is worse than the team James took the Finals his stint in Cleveland. 

When you are carrying a team for 40+ minutes a night, your efficiency is hurt.  Iverson was never an efficient player, but his two years in Denver playing with Anthony were by far his most efficient shooting seasons (and frankly it isn't that close).  Those were outside of his first sixe years so aren't in those numbers.

There is also just so much difference between 23 shots a game and 13 shots a game and what that does to someone's efficiency. 

No one will suggest Thomas isn't a more efficient shooter than Iverson, but Thomas never had to carry the load like Iverson either and you lose that perspective when you look at per 36 numbers.

A lot of this is true, but it's really hard to find players who have even been comparably inefficient to AI.

http://bkref.com/tiny/VwftW

40/41 in TS% among players in the three point era with PPG ≥ 20

http://bkref.com/tiny/nAEEL

8/8 in TS% among players in the three point era with PPG ≥ 25. He's the only one with a TS% < .550 (.518).

Furthermore, he's 2/41 and 1/8 in TOVPG in those respective groups.

[Moranis]

Iverson was a league MVP and had taken a team to the Finals 6 years into his career.  Iverson was a much better defender than Thomas as well.   Iverson was a starter playing starters minutes, Thomas came off the bench over 100 games. 

And again, Iverson took a team of himself, an old Dikembe, and scrubs to the NBA Finals.  I mean have you looked at who was starting for that Sixers team in the playoffs it is worse than the team James took the Finals his stint in Cleveland. 

When you are carrying a team for 40+ minutes a night, your efficiency is hurt.  Iverson was never an efficient player, but his two years in Denver playing with Anthony were by far his most efficient shooting seasons (and frankly it isn't that close).  Those were outside of his first sixe years so aren't in those numbers.

There is also just so much difference between 23 shots a game and 13 shots a game and what that does to someone's efficiency. 

No one will suggest Thomas isn't a more efficient shooter than Iverson, but Thomas never had to carry the load like Iverson either and you lose that perspective when you look at per 36 numbers.

A lot of this is true, but it's really hard to find players who have even been comparably inefficient to AI.

http://bkref.com/tiny/VwftW

40/41 in TS% among players in the three point era with PPG ≥ 20

http://bkref.com/tiny/nAEEL

8/8 in TS% among players in the three point era with PPG ≥ 25. He's the only one with a TS% < .550 (.518).

Furthermore, he's 2/41 and 1/8 in TOVPG in those respective groups.

He also played by far more minutes than anyone else.  James is 2nd more than 2 mpg behind Iverson (and James is getting further away).  Iverson was 3rd in FTA per game.  2nd in SPG.  4th in PPG.  5th in APG.  tied for 1st in Fouls per game (so he turned it over a bunch but didn't commit fouls and got a lot of steals). 

He was incredibly inefficient shooter, no question, but he was also pretty much a one man show playing iron man type minutes for almost his entire career, which significantly hurts ones shooting efficiency. 

[walker834]

Information Technology is greater than Artificial Intelligence?

I wish. 

[BlackCeltic]

AI was a fantastic defender. I wish I could say the same for IT.

[DarkAzcura]

Iverson was a league MVP and had taken a team to the Finals 6 years into his career.  Iverson was a much better defender than Thomas as well.   Iverson was a starter playing starters minutes, Thomas came off the bench over 100 games. 

And again, Iverson took a team of himself, an old Dikembe, and scrubs to the NBA Finals.  I mean have you looked at who was starting for that Sixers team in the playoffs it is worse than the team James took the Finals his stint in Cleveland. 

When you are carrying a team for 40+ minutes a night, your efficiency is hurt.  Iverson was never an efficient player, but his two years in Denver playing with Anthony were by far his most efficient shooting seasons (and frankly it isn't that close).  Those were outside of his first sixe years so aren't in those numbers.

There is also just so much difference between 23 shots a game and 13 shots a game and what that does to someone's efficiency. 

No one will suggest Thomas isn't a more efficient shooter than Iverson, but Thomas never had to carry the load like Iverson either and you lose that perspective when you look at per 36 numbers.

Iverson didn't deserve that MVP, imo. That defense was insanely good and carried Iverson. There is a reason he could never replicate that success again despite becoming a better player afterwards. The defense wasn't nearly as good. That was a near historic level defense.

I also think some overlook AI's inefficiency too much. Not saying you are saying this, but I have seen some discredit IT's success here in 14-15 because everyone but him sucked on offense so of course he was going to score a lot. If that's the case, wouldn't he also be inefficient? Despite playing with little offensive talent, IT still maintained efficiency and high level scoring.

AI became more efficient, yes, but most veterans do over time in their prime because they become smarter offensive players (rule changes may have played a factor also). If anything that may be more of a positive for IT in this regard seeing as he has been very efficient so far in his career whether he played with no talent or with talent.

I'm not actually saying IT will have a career on par with AI or anything, but I'm just not sure your argument about efficiency works here. I don't personally think it is a positive for Iverson that he needed to take so many shots to average the scoring numbers he did even if he didn't have much offensive help around him. If IT can average the same amount of points on a per minute basis in a more effective way (i.e. much less shots), it should be seen as a positive for him, IMO.

[Moranis]

Iverson was a league MVP and had taken a team to the Finals 6 years into his career.  Iverson was a much better defender than Thomas as well.   Iverson was a starter playing starters minutes, Thomas came off the bench over 100 games. 

And again, Iverson took a team of himself, an old Dikembe, and scrubs to the NBA Finals.  I mean have you looked at who was starting for that Sixers team in the playoffs it is worse than the team James took the Finals his stint in Cleveland. 

When you are carrying a team for 40+ minutes a night, your efficiency is hurt.  Iverson was never an efficient player, but his two years in Denver playing with Anthony were by far his most efficient shooting seasons (and frankly it isn't that close).  Those were outside of his first sixe years so aren't in those numbers.

There is also just so much difference between 23 shots a game and 13 shots a game and what that does to someone's efficiency. 

No one will suggest Thomas isn't a more efficient shooter than Iverson, but Thomas never had to carry the load like Iverson either and you lose that perspective when you look at per 36 numbers.

Iverson didn't deserve that MVP, imo. That defense was insanely good and carried Iverson. There is a reason he could never replicate that success again despite becoming a better player afterwards. The defense wasn't nearly as good. That was a near historic level defense.

I also think some overlook AI's inefficiency too much. Not saying you are saying this, but I have seen some discredit IT's success here in 14-15 because everyone but him sucked on offense so of course he was going to score a lot. If that's the case, wouldn't he also be inefficient? Despite playing with little offensive talent, IT still maintained efficiency and high level scoring.

AI became more efficient, yes, but most veterans do over time in their prime because they become smarter offensive players (rule changes may have played a factor also). If anything that may be more of a positive for IT in this regard seeing as he has been very efficient so far in his career whether he played with no talent or with talent.

I'm not actually saying IT will have a career on par with AI or anything, but I'm just not sure your argument about efficiency works here. I don't personally think it is a positive for Iverson that he needed to take so many shots to average the scoring numbers he did even if he didn't have much offensive help around him. If IT can average the same amount of points on a per minute basis in a more effective way (i.e. much less shots), it should be seen as a positive for him, IMO.

No question they had a great defense, but Iverson was most definitely apart of that.  He led the league in steals that year.  Now he could gamble a bit more because he had Dikembe and Ratliff waiting to clean things up, but he was still a credible defender.  He was actually a fairly underrated overall defender in his career.  Don't get me wrong he wasn't a great defender, but he was a lot better than people remember him for.  AI led the league in scoring as well and took a team full of hard nosed misfits to the NBA Finals.  He wasn't the best player in the league that year, but he absolutely deserved the MVP based on his overall season.