Yeah guys... IT is the "odd man out" right??

[Phantom255x]

Even in that ugly game, IT almost single handedly kept us in that game and got the game tying basket. 37 points is no joke.

Wasn't his fault KO screwed it up at the end.

Whether it's as starter or off the bench, you build a team with IT included, dude can ball and score. There's literally no one else on this roster except maybe Horford who can score a bunch in games like IT can, and if he goes then you all will complain about our "lack of offense and shooters". 

[Moranis]

He also is the oldest, going to command the largest contract, and mostly likely would give you the best value in return.  Unless Boston lands a major free agent or trades for a major player, I expect Thomas to be traded before next years trade deadline.

Assuming I agree with the premise, the Celts are going to take a major step back when they trade IT unless the return is excellent (which is unlikely given the same reasons for trading him in the first place).

I'm just having a hard time seeing how the Celts remain relevant in the short term if they trade IT, because it seems so unlikely to me that they'll be able to immediately replace him with a player who can fill the crucial role he plays.

So, if the Celts do trade IT, I'd say they might as well trade other guys and just go full-on youth movement.  Smart, Rozier, Olynyk, Brown, and whoever they get via trade / Nets' picks.  That's your team of the future.  Maybe keep Bradley around for consistency.

Yeah, that is the point I've been making for awhile.  Boston either at the trade deadline or this summer will either go all in trading prime assets to do it (or landing a major free agent) or it will start to unload players and build for the future around those prime assets at some point next season.  I know a lot of people on this blog seem to think that Boston can be a contender now and a contender in the future, but it just isn't possible, and the one thing we've learned from Ainge, is he would rather trade someone early then lose them for nothing.  If Boston strikes out through the end of free agency next summer, then I absolutely expect trades of players that Ainge doesn't see giving big dollar extension to and I believe Thomas is sitting at the top of that list. 

[mmmmm]

Let's put it this way, Boston is not going to re-sign Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk, and Smart. 

I agree with that, but out of those guys, IT is by far the hardest to replace.

He also is the oldest, going to command the largest contract, and mostly likely would give you the best value in return.  Unless Boston lands a major free agent or trades for a major player, I expect Thomas to be traded before next years trade deadline.

I don't think the bolded part is necessarily true.  While Thomas is something (an elite point creating point guard) that would be very hard to replace once you lose it, there are only a few teams that need a stud veteran point guard.   Yes, he would be an upgrade for most PGs, but they aren't seeing that spot on their roster as necessarily a desperate need.   For example, if you have a guy like, say, Teague, you may view IT as an upgrade, but you probably are at least satisfied with Teague.   There are a lot of Teague-level, good point guards in the league right now.

Guys like Crowder or Bradley or Smart actually may have more trade value because more teams have room / need for guys like them.

[tstorey_97]

Thomas is the Celtics best offensive weapon. He is the star on a one round playoff team. The following is my thought on how Ainge sees IT, and I suggest it will decide IT's future in Boston.

If it works out in such a way Ainge will keep IT, but, if IT's cap hit is too high he will not.

Ainge has already shown us how he interprets Auerbach's method of building a championship team. Of course this method is influenced by modern basketball, but, we all watched 2008. He must have defense, it is not an option. Sam Presti (our neighbor from Concord,MA) built a great team in OKC. He did not build a defensive team and the results are there to see.

Here's what Ainge built 8 years ago:
 
Rondo a facilitator for three HOF scorers, a reasonable defender and a fair offensive player.
Perkins a defender, but, below average offensive force supporting PP and KG underneath.
Allen an offensive force from deep.
Paul balanced.
KG heart of the team a defensive force.

In his attempt to build a another champ, Ainge will be faced with an entirely different group of elements than 2008, however, the core remains the same and can be supported with a study of Auerbach's teams. Larry arrives in Boston and Auerbach sits down with Max and informs him he is going to be a "defensive player" now. Regardless of Maxwell's play, it demonstrates Auerbach's intent.

If a roster is built with the addition of "two great players" does Danny Ainge perceive IT as the third?

My guess is no. Based on past behavior, Ainge may very well trade IT when he has a chance at value. I have followed the Celtics since 1964 which does not mean I know what I am talking about, it just means that I have always observed that in Boston, Massachusetts a wicked premium is always put on defense. That the final clinching play in some of the greatest games and championship series in league history was all about a defensive play. Ainge knows this, he was on the court for a couple of them.

[Big333223]

Let's put it this way, Boston is not going to re-sign Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk, and Smart. 

I agree with that, but out of those guys, IT is by far the hardest to replace.

We won't need to re-sign Crowder which is why I only see him getting moved in a trade for a star - no way we dump him if we trade IT/Horford. He is on an incredible contract for years to come.

As for IT, I generally agree. It is a difficult pill to swallow in backing up the Brinks truck (seriously, that quote could be his demise in the eyes of fans), but he is an extremely talented offensive player and is the current face of our franchise.

I just spent like 15 minutes trying to figure out how much money can fit into a brinks truck. I couldn't find anything saying how much the interior volume is, but i did find an exterior value. A cash pile ($100 bills) that is as big as a Brinks truck is around 3 billion dollars. Assuming that the interior volume of the truck is roughly half that of its exterior it can be safe to assume that the max volume of a brinks truck is roughly 1.5 billion dollars. It is then safe to assume that Isaiah wants his next contract to be in between 35 million and 1.5 billion dollars. But we all here know that there is a max salary in the NBA so the 1.5 billion figure is not a feasible option for Isaiah. We can now assume that he is going to get somewhere in the range of 5-max million dollars in his next contract. Assuming what he wants is 1.5 billion dollars, getting him for a mere ~$150 dollars is a steal if you ask me.

If you use $1 bills instead of $100 bills, you come out to approximately $15M. This seems more than reasonable...even on a yearly basis. Maybe IT did the same research you did.

Maybe someone should ask him to clarify which form of currency he wants contained in the brinks truck. Maybe we can pay him in trident layers.

TP's for the attention to detail.

[PhoSita]

Boston either at the trade deadline or this summer will either go all in trading prime assets to do it (or landing a major free agent) or it will start to unload players and build for the future around those prime assets at some point next season. 

I just have a hard time seeing the Celts making their first major FA signing in decades this past summer and then turning around less than a year later and blowing up the team so they can rebuild around Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown.

I mean, you're probably right that it's a long shot for them to contend with this group, but what you're talking about is the team deciding not to win 45-55 games a year for the next half decade and instead basically bottom out for questionable gain.


IT, Crowder, Horford probably isn't making a Finals, let alone winning a championship, but there's always an outside chance one of these young guys blows up, or Ainge swings a trade for that final piece.  And in the meantime, the Celts should have a likeable and competitive team that might make a run to the ECF once or twice.

[Moranis]

Boston either at the trade deadline or this summer will either go all in trading prime assets to do it (or landing a major free agent) or it will start to unload players and build for the future around those prime assets at some point next season. 

I just have a hard time seeing the Celts making their first major FA signing in decades this past summer and then turning around less than a year later and blowing up the team so they can rebuild around Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown.

I mean, you're probably right that it's a long shot for them to contend with this group, but what you're talking about is the team deciding not to win 45-55 games a year for the next half decade and instead basically bottom out for questionable gain.


IT, Crowder, Horford probably isn't making a Finals, let alone winning a championship, but there's always an outside chance one of these young guys blows up, or Ainge swings a trade for that final piece.  And in the meantime, the Celts should have a likeable and competitive team that might make a run to the ECF once or twice.

Boston didn't sign Horford to stand pat though.  I fully expect Boston to go hard after every available player, the question is will Boston land said player.  That is up in the air.  I'd certainly prefer Boston to make some major acquisitions and be a realistic contender and without that ability at least push to make the team at least a ECF team this season because it would put Boston in a better position this summer.  That is why I made the thread on Chandler.  Why I would love to acquire Noel or Bogut.  Or why I wouldn't mind a trade for Lopez.  None of those trades make Boston a contender, but they all make Boston better, which would only help the cause this summer.  And yes I realize some of them would take up cap room this summer, but Boston could trade some of these mid-tier players to acquire a star if required.  I mean say Hayward wants to come to Boston, is Boston really going to keep Bradley, Smart, Crowder, Brown and Hayward.  That doesn't seem logical from both the playing time/rotation side or it or the financial side of it.  So if Chandler is on the roster, I could easily see Boston trading Bradley or Crowder to Utah in a sign and trade for Hayward this summer (as an example).  Cap space is freed up and the team upgrades a starting spot. 

Boston is quickly approaching another crossroad just like it did in 03/04 when Ainge got here, in 08 before the Allen/KG trades, and in 11/12 at the end of the big 3 era.  Boston will need to pick a direction before the start of next season and go full bore in that direction, otherwise it will be a treadmill team with some gigantic salary raises to consider and no real way to make the team better in the short term while just hoping that Brown and/or either of the two Brooklyn picks hit.   

[Phantom255x]

IT right now is single-handedly keeping BOS in the game. Smart sort of helping on defense as well.

Update: 18 fourth quarter points and 26 for the game.

[trickybilly]

IT defensive liablilities are nowhere near as bad as people on this forum makes out.

[Phantom255x]

IT defensive liablilities are nowhere near as bad as people on this forum makes out.

Yeah that's my point. Don't sell IT "at his peak" or let him walk. Keep him and build a team around him, Horford, Brown, Crowder and one of Smart/Bradley.

[mctyson]

IT defensive liablilities are nowhere near as bad as people on this forum makes out.

Yeah that's my point. Don't sell IT "at his peak" or let him walk. Keep him and build a team around him, Horford, Brown, Crowder and one of Smart/Bradley.

again...he is awesome when he puts the burners on, especially late. but the for the first 3 quarters he was bad.

[Phantom255x]

IT defensive liablilities are nowhere near as bad as people on this forum makes out.

Yeah that's my point. Don't sell IT "at his peak" or let him walk. Keep him and build a team around him, Horford, Brown, Crowder and one of Smart/Bradley.

again...he is awesome when he puts the burners on, especially late. but the for the first 3 quarters he was bad.

Completely agree, but it's great to see IT can turn it on late in games.

Ainge and C's fans talk about how the Celtics need a true "closer" late in games, and IT has somewhat filled the role well for us.

Obviously we still need one but IT is doing well given the opportunity. As for the first 3Qs, yes IT wasn't great but it wasn't just him, others didn't play well either. I'm just glad he finally turned it up in the 4th

[Moranis]

Thomas got to the line a lot, that is when he is most effective, of course JJ Barea was guarding him most of the game.  He did finish 7 of 18 from the field though, which isn't great and had 5 turnovers. 

Thomas is an excellent scorer and Boston lacks even very good scorers (aside from him), but there isn't much else Thomas does well.  He is very small and relies on his speed to get open as a result.  He is going to crater at an earlier age then a lot of guys because of those size/speed limitations.  So the real questions are do you pay Thomas a big contract and hope it doesn't kill you, do you let him walk for nothing, or do you look at moving while he still has good trade value.  The answer to those questions will probably be dictated on what Boston does this season and off season, but don't be surprised if Ainge sells high on him.

[manl_lui]

Thomas got to the line a lot, that is when he is most effective, of course JJ Barea was guarding him most of the game.  He did finish 7 of 18 from the field though, which isn't great and had 5 turnovers. 

Thomas is an excellent scorer and Boston lacks even very good scorers (aside from him), but there isn't much else Thomas does well.  He is very small and relies on his speed to get open as a result.  He is going to crater at an earlier age then a lot of guys because of those size/speed limitations.  So the real questions are do you pay Thomas a big contract and hope it doesn't kill you, do you let him walk for nothing, or do you look at moving while he still has good trade value.  The answer to those questions will probably be dictated on what Boston does this season and off season, but don't be surprised if Ainge sells high on him.

I think those are fair questions, but in my honest opinion, I think Danny will pay him, with today's small ball lineup I do not think you're losing much. IT has shown consistently that he can score when the team needs it most.

[OldSchoolDude]

Thomas got to the line a lot, that is when he is most effective, of course JJ Barea was guarding him most of the game.  He did finish 7 of 18 from the field though, which isn't great and had 5 turnovers. 

Thomas is an excellent scorer and Boston lacks even very good scorers (aside from him), but there isn't much else Thomas does well.  He is very small and relies on his speed to get open as a result.  He is going to crater at an earlier age then a lot of guys because of those size/speed limitations.  So the real questions are do you pay Thomas a big contract and hope it doesn't kill you, do you let him walk for nothing, or do you look at moving while he still has good trade value.  The answer to those questions will probably be dictated on what Boston does this season and off season, but don't be surprised if Ainge sells high on him.

I think those are fair questions, but in my honest opinion, I think Danny will pay him, with today's small ball lineup I do not think you're losing much. IT has shown consistently that he can score when the team needs it most.

Look at the money.  In 2018 you have to pay IT and Bradley, but then there is free agency to think about and I believe Cousins will walk from the Kings unless he’s traded to a better situation, which I think is unlikely given the Kings management.  We’ll probably throw the max at Hayward next year so we won’t be able to keep both IT and Bradley.  If we max out Noel and Hayward in free agency this year we won’t be able to keep either IT or Bradley.  Then there is the Brooklyn pick, with 6 point guards currently in the top 10 on draft boards, there is a really good chance we can draft a future stud.   I just don’t see IT on the roster in 2018 despite putting up 30+ the last two games and averaging over 20.  I’ve given it a lot of though as I watched the top rated PGs make their NCAA débuts.   I think we’ll draft one and hang on to IT through 2017-18 while the new kid gets seasoned, but come summer 2018, I don’t see a Brinks truck rolling up, unless its to pay Cousins.  There is no way IT leaves now, unless it’s in a deal for a major player like Cousins.  But come draft night if we pick a guard like Dennis Smith, who looked to be the most “Ainge” like of the top prospects, tough and gritty, or Markelle Fultz who looks silky smooth and super athletic, then IT is done and we need to try and pull another Rondo type trade.  I would look to trade IT now at peak value rather than wait.  If we dealt Rondo a year earlier who knows who we cold have gotten.