Yeah guys... IT is the "odd man out" right??

[OldSchoolDude]

The draft will seal his fate.  There are like 6 point guards in the top ten of the 2017 draft.  If we use the Brooklyn pick on a pg them IT is gone.  If the Brooklyn pick looks to be a lock for a top 5 pick at the trade deadline, IT may be gone then. 

[PhoSita]

IT is the Celts' most important player and it's not especially close right now.

Perhaps when Horford comes back, if he takes a more prominent offensive role.

[max215]

At the moment, IT is roughly a top 10 offensive player and top 20 player by most metrics.

[alewilliam789]

The draft will seal his fate.  There are like 6 point guards in the top ten of the 2017 draft.  If we use the Brooklyn pick on a pg them IT is gone.  If the Brooklyn pick looks to be a lock for a top 5 pick at the trade deadline, IT may be gone then.

Agree with this because it's an extremely deep PG draft. There may 5 starting point guards with at least 2-3 stars in that top 6. Rather have a rookie like Dennis Smith Jr. or De'Aaron Fox on a 3-4 year rookie contract than IT turning 34 at 20 mil. Tbh the Horford signing was a shortsighted move by Ainge too because we still needed to extend Isaiah and both of them are exiting their respective primes and we still aren't contenders.

My problem with this team has always been it's inability to stay out of the middle of the road category. We aren't contenders without a dream trade and even then with the players on the market that's hard to envision.

Almost feels like we are in the same place we were before rebuilding tbh because it looks like we may be blowing this up sooner rather than later.

[OldSchoolDude]

IT is the Celts' most important player and it's not especially close right now.

Perhaps when Horford comes back, if he takes a more prominent offensive role.

When Boston drafted Smart it was clear that Rondo was done in Boston and he was our best player at the time.   If Boston uses a top 5 or even a top 10 pick on Dennis Smith (6’2), Markelle Fultz (6’5), Lonzo Ball (6’6), De’Aaron Fox (6’3), or even Frank Ntilikina (6’5), IT (5’9) is gone.   He is our best scorer but I wouldn’t say he is the best player.  He is a liability on defense, he can score but he needs a lot of shots to do it.  He gets like half of his points from the line, so his 20 point games are not as dominant as his points per game suggests.  Sure he closed out the pacers but we took a lead to the half without him making a field goal.  Give Rozier the same number of shots and he puts up 20+ a game too.   The bottom line is that we should be able to draft a big athletic pg who projects to shoot at least as well if not better then IT a, but should definitely pass and defend better then IT.  IT wants to get paid, and it’s not going to happen.  The first shoe to drop will be drafting a big point guard, the next will be maxing out two free against. I’m predicting they get Hayward and Noel, given all the trade talk involving those two in the past.  There will be neither the money nor the need to pay IT. 

[PhoSita]

 He is a liability on defense, he can score but he needs a lot of shots to do it.  He gets like half of his points from the line, so his 20 point games are not as dominant as his points per game suggests.

This is nonsense.

There are 29 players in the league currently averaging 20+ points per game.  Among those players, IT is 8th in True Shooting Percentage.

By the same token, he is 22nd in that group in terms of field goal attempts.

In short, he's one of the best scorers in the league, period.  It will be very difficult to replace him (this being the biggest distinguishing factor from Rondo). That's true even if the Celts get a top pick from the surprisingly-not-horrible-Nets. Go take a look at the stats for Kris Dunn or Dante Exum.

The Celts may or may not pay to keep IT after his current contract, but we should be very careful about taking him for granted while he's here.

[max215]

 He is a liability on defense, he can score but he needs a lot of shots to do it.  He gets like half of his points from the line, so his 20 point games are not as dominant as his points per game suggests.

This is nonsense.

There are 29 players in the league currently averaging 20+ points per game.  Among those players, IT is 8th in True Shooting Percentage.

By the same token, he is 22nd in that group in terms of field goal attempts.

In short, he's one of the best scorers in the league, period.  It will be very difficult to replace him (this being the biggest distinguishing factor from Rondo). That's true even if the Celts get a top pick from the surprisingly-not-horrible-Nets. Go take a look at the stats for Kris Dunn or Dante Exum.

The Celts may or may not pay to keep IT after his current contract, but we should be very careful about taking him for granted while he's here.

Pho, you have it all wrong. IT is short, so he's bad. Haven't you heard?

[Moranis]

 He is a liability on defense, he can score but he needs a lot of shots to do it.  He gets like half of his points from the line, so his 20 point games are not as dominant as his points per game suggests.

This is nonsense.

There are 29 players in the league currently averaging 20+ points per game.  Among those players, IT is 8th in True Shooting Percentage.

By the same token, he is 22nd in that group in terms of field goal attempts.

In short, he's one of the best scorers in the league, period.  It will be very difficult to replace him (this being the biggest distinguishing factor from Rondo). That's true even if the Celts get a top pick from the surprisingly-not-horrible-Nets. Go take a look at the stats for Kris Dunn or Dante Exum.

The Celts may or may not pay to keep IT after his current contract, but we should be very careful about taking him for granted while he's here.

I agree with you on the offense part, but IT is not a good defender at all and there are plenty of games where he is a net negative because of the defense (even when he is having solid offensive games).  He really is better suited as a 6th man where his defensive limitations will be less pronounced and he will have an even greater offensive advantage.  I also worry that because he is so small, as soon as loses even a partial step, his offensive effectiveness will significantly decrease.  Any sort of  leg injury (even one he heals from) and he could be done as an all star caliber offensive player.

[PhoSita]

To be honest with you, I don't think the point guard position is especially impactful on modern defense, in general.  At that position I mostly care about ability to create turnovers, focus, and effort.  IT rates well for me in those categories.

Yes, he's an issue in terms of individual matchups.  However, defense should not, in theory, be the main problem for the Celts, and I think defensive weakness at the point guard position is the easiest sort of defensive issue to cover up.

Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving are also pretty poor defenders, they just don't get criticized for it as much because of their size.  When IT is taken advantage of on that end, it stands out more because he's smaller.

I agree with your concerns about his longevity, but I think the Celts may just have to swallow hard and accept that risk.  IT is as close as they have to a franchise player right now, and I think if they let him walk they'll have a darned hard time replacing his production.  I don't think you can have a really good team in the modern NBA without a high level offensive talent at point guard.

[Moranis]

To be honest with you, I don't think the point guard position is especially impactful on modern defense, in general.  At that position I mostly care about ability to create turnovers, focus, and effort.  IT rates well for me in those categories.

Yes, he's an issue in terms of individual matchups.  However, defense should not, in theory, be the main problem for the Celts, and I think defensive weakness at the point guard position is the easiest sort of defensive issue to cover up.

Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving are also pretty poor defenders, they just don't get criticized for it as much because of their size.  When IT is taken advantage of on that end, it stands out more because he's smaller.

I agree with your concerns about his longevity, but I think the Celts may just have to swallow hard and accept that risk.  IT is as close as they have to a franchise player right now, and I think if they let him walk they'll have a darned hard time replacing his production.  I don't think you can have a really good team in the modern NBA without a high level offensive talent at point guard.

I think they trade him before they let him walk, especially if the team is hovering around mediocrity into next season.  To be clear, I don't think Boston trades him this year, but next year I expect him to be traded unless Boston makes a major move and is actually a realistic contender. 

[max215]

Side note about IT's defense: I always find it comical when non-post-players try to post him up and fail miserably.

[ThePaintedArea]

To be honest with you, I don't think the point guard position is especially impactful on modern defense, in general.  At that position I mostly care about ability to create turnovers, focus, and effort.  IT rates well for me in those categories.

I can only go part way with you here. Yes, bigs have a bigger impact on team D. But the more ball pressure you can bring at the point of attack the less time the offense has to get into its sets.

Yes, he's an issue in terms of individual matchups.  However, defense should not, in theory, be the main problem for the Celts, and I think defensive weakness at the point guard position is the easiest sort of defensive issue to cover up.

Agreed on both points. In any case, Boston was fourth in team D last year without any real rim-protector - and with Thomas starting.

I agree with your concerns about his longevity, but I think the Celts may just have to swallow hard and accept that risk.  IT is as close as they have to a franchise player right now, and I think if they let him walk they'll have a darned hard time replacing his production.  I don't think you can have a really good team in the modern NBA without a high level offensive talent at point guard.

He's a shot-creator extraordinaire. His assist % is 33.9, his TSP is an insane .616, his free-throw rate is a boggling .563, and he's shooting a career-best .882 at the line, which is AA plus by Rick Barry's old ranking. All those free throws get the team in the bonus quicker, creating hidden "assists".

Glitchy start for Boston, but the pieces are in place - and Isaiah Thomas is the straw that stirs the drink.

[PhoSita]

To be clear, I don't think Boston trades him this year, but next year I expect him to be traded unless Boston makes a major move and is actually a realistic contender.

If they trade him in that manner, I suppose they might as well trade Horford, too, and get what they can for Crowder.

Basically, we'd be talking about a return to ground-up rebuilding.  The team gained a focal point and became plausible as a competitive team when IT came to town.  I see them returning to a mediocre curio type team if they let him go.

It's just so hard to find legitimate primary offensive creators in the league.  The teams that have them do well.  The teams that don't flounder. 

Of course, the Celts got IT in the first place for relatively little.  However, I don't think we should take that as a sign that top scoring options can be readily found sitting on somebody else's bench.

[alldaboston]

He is a liability on defense, he can score but he needs a lot of shots to do it.  He gets like half of his points from the line, so his 20 point games are not as dominant as his points per game suggests.

Are you sure you're talking about Isaiah here? Sounds eerily similar to James Harden, you know, free throws, defense, and all. Do you think the Rockets should trade Harden too? They're 5-4, they could slide off and get a top 10 pick. If they draft a shooting guard in the top 10, they should look to move Harden, right?


Also, I noticed you said this:

The bottom line is that we should be able to draft a big athletic pg who projects to shoot at least as well if not better then IT a, but should definitely pass and defend better then IT.

So, essentially, we should draft someone who would theoretically be quite possibly one of the greatest point guard prospects of all time, a surefire NBA all-star/superstar, and possibly a future HOFer. I think that's a great game-plan dude. All we need to do is draft that player and we're set!

Now go and find me that player. I'll wait.

[Moranis]

To be clear, I don't think Boston trades him this year, but next year I expect him to be traded unless Boston makes a major move and is actually a realistic contender.

If they trade him in that manner, I suppose they might as well trade Horford, too, and get what they can for Crowder.

Basically, we'd be talking about a return to ground-up rebuilding.  The team gained a focal point and became plausible as a competitive team when IT came to town.  I see them returning to a mediocre curio type team if they let him go.

It's just so hard to find legitimate primary offensive creators in the league.  The teams that have them do well.  The teams that don't flounder. 

Of course, the Celts got IT in the first place for relatively little.  However, I don't think we should take that as a sign that top scoring options can be readily found sitting on somebody else's bench.

Crowder and Horford are signed longer than IT.  Trading IT in that scenario is much more about value, contract, etc. than anything else.  Let's put it this way, Boston is not going to re-sign Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Olynyk, and Smart.  There just isn't enough money to go around for bringing back a non-contender on the type of contracts those five are going to command.  Bradley and Smart make the most sense to sign given their value, play, and expected contract with Olynyk not far behind (unless he gets Anderson type money).  Ainge has shown he doesn't let players walk if he can trade them for value, thus I firmly believe Thomas and/or Crowder are going to get moved unless Boston upgrades the SG position, at which time I would expect Bradley to get moved.  The dollars just don't work out keeping them all.