Author Topic: What's Wrong With the Defense?  (Read 2805 times)

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What's Wrong With the Defense?
« on: November 07, 2016, 10:46:01 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Any ideas?

I know we're missing some players but there is an obvious drop in defensive execution from last year's team with pretty close to the same team. It's actually got me wondering about how much of a defensive impact Sully was having. There's got to be another reason, though.
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Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2016, 10:58:57 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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Players are not where they are supposed to be on help defense.

Essentially only the starters are consistently where they are supposed to be on defense. While the turnover wasn't huge this offseason, we are introducing young players into the rotation who are going to take time to develop defensively.

The defense should be better on Wednesday when Horford and Olynyk push Zeller/Jerebko out of the rotation. Replacing two below average defenders with good ones will help a lot, but for them really to be good defensively, Rozier and Brown are really going to need to improve.

By the end of the year, I expect the defense to be elite. Either Brad will develop their young players into good defenders or find players to replace them in the rotation.
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Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2016, 11:03:57 AM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Starts with the interior defense which is terrible - specifically Zeller/Jerebko and then it extends from there.  First quarter last night was collective breakdown from all involved as they failed to match Denver's intensity.

Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2016, 12:34:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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One big factor: Turnovers.


Last year, the Celts were tied for 1st in the league in opponent turnovers, at 15.8 per game.

This year (so far), the Celts are 17th in the league in opponent turnovers, at 13.3 per game.


Those two turnovers per game don't tell the whole story, of course, but it speaks to a major difference in the overall intensity and activity that the Celts had last year compared to this year.



Not forcing as many turnovers is a really big problem for the Celts when you look at it in the context of their poor defensive rebounding.  The Celts cannot afford to not force turnovers, because they need those turnovers to make up for the difference on the boards and at the free throw line.
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Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2016, 12:48:54 PM »

Offline Silent Storm

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Rebounding is a major factor. When the opposing team has multiple attempts as a result of too many offensive rebounds, the defense is affected. At this point, we're way too soft on the inside.
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Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2016, 01:02:45 PM »

Offline apc

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I wonder if Bradley's focus on rebounds takes away from his D

Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2016, 01:14:22 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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I wonder if Bradley's focus on rebounds takes away from his D

This article/blogpost from celticslife.com also thinks so.

http://www.celticslife.com/2016/11/rebounding-by-committee-has-to-got-to.html
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Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2016, 01:23:47 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Aside from the injuries? I mean, missing 4 guys to various amounts of games in the first 5 games of the season hurts anything.

1. Floor balance on offense is terrible, which is leading to way too many transition points for our opponents. It is especially bad on Thomas' drives, when Rozier, Bradley, or Smart should be rotating back but are not.

2. Lack of effort is killing us.

3. Officials are going crazy with the whistles. We have the worst free throw differential in league, meaning opponents are getting 10 more free throws a game than us. Some of this is due to our lax defense, but the questionable calls are getting really old.

4. In my opinion, Bradley's ego is hurting us a bit. He is not longer playing with a chip on his shoulder, but more like he has "arrived" and he is owed something.

5. Forcing turnovers covers makes your defense look a lot better. We are not doing that this year.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 01:57:38 PM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2016, 01:24:29 PM »

Online Moranis

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http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4724349/whats-wrong-with-the-boston-celtics-defense

BOSTON -- On the eve of the Boston Celtics' season opener last month, after a training camp in which players routinely were peppered with questions about the potential of the team's defense, coach Brad Stevens was asked if he thought his team could climb higher in defensive rating.
"I think defense is one of those things that you’ve got to go out there and do it," Stevens said. "It’s not about talking about it. It’s not about the anticipation of how good we can be. That’s an everyday commitment."

After Sunday night's embarrassing 123-107 loss to the Denver Nuggets -- a game in which Boston's defense gave up 77 first-half points while sleepwalking against a team coming off a 17-point defeat the night before in Detroit -- the Celtics find themselves ranked 29th in defensive rating while allowing an unfathomable 110.2 points per 100 possessions. Only the New York Knicks are worse -- and not by much (110.9).

For context, the Celtics finished tied for fourth in defensive rating last season while allowing 100.9 points per 100 possessions. The Los Angeles Lakers were far and away the worst defensive team last year at 109.3.

Sure, the Celtics have yet to play a game this season at full strength. On Sunday night, they played without three of their top seven players in Al Horford (concussion), Jae Crowder (ankle) and Kelly Olynyk (shoulder). Marcus Smart, Boston's best defender off the bench, missed the team's first three games with an ankle injury. Avery Bradley has played despite a sore shoulder that required a cortisone shot last week.

But none of those injuries explains just how atrocious Boston's defense has been. The Celtics consistently have looked out of place and out of sync. And that doesn't make sense when you consider the same core is in place for a team that made defense its calling card much of last season. What's more, Boston's defense was excellent in the preseason (defensive rating of 95) and has shown flashes of its potential this season.

So what in the world is going on?

"We’re not as good as we thought we were," said Celtics All-Star point guard Isaiah Thomas, a black hoodie drawn tight over his head as he tried to explain the latest defensive dud. "When we don’t come out with a sense of urgency, we’re not a good team, and that’s what happened tonight."

But what about those aspirations of being a top defense?

"At this point, we’re all talk," Thomas said. "That’s all we’re doing. So until we put it together in a full 48-minute game and show what we can do at that end, we’re not gonna be a top defensive team."

Stevens spent the night throwing darts with hopes of finding some sort of spark for his team. Nothing worked. Nuggets second-year guard Emmanuel Mudiay scored 24 of his game-high 30 points in a first-quarter blitz that saw Denver hang 42 points on Boston. Fans at TD Garden showered the Celtics with boos as they walked off the court down 25 at halftime.

Given that the Celtics haven't been able to pull out of their defensive funk, Stevens tried to absorb much of the blame for his team's struggles. But he also not-so-subtly insinuated that his team has been soft so far this season.

“I thought, looking at [Denver] film, this could be bad for us," Stevens said. “And the reason I thought that is because -- the nicest way I can say this is, I think we play like a finesse team and [the Nuggets] play physical.

“I thought the [Danilo] Gallinari dunk was a great example of that. I thought Kenneth Faried diving on the floor with 3:57 left in the fourth quarter was a great example of that. That’s who we’ve been the last week."

Stevens was asked if Boston can still be a top defense.

"I don’t even know if it’s statistically possible, based on our week. You know?" Stevens said. "I don’t even know if you can make it up in 76 games. But we can get a lot better. But it starts with holding your ground physically.

"Mudiay goes nuts, that’s fine. But Mudiay also gets two putbacks -- or at least one putback early -- that gets you going, makes you feel good about yourself, see the ball go through the net, it’s an easy basket. Now you hit a couple of the tougher ones.

"We brought a little bit of aggressiveness at the start of the third quarter, but that wasn’t sustainable. I don’t know. I don’t have the answer. Obviously we’ve got some guys that aren’t playing that will play, but this is about physically holding your ground.

"I've got to look at everything we’re doing, and go from there. I told the players it’s my fault because I played -- I watched us play this way. And you can’t do that. Bottom line is, when you have a spot, you have to hold it. When you have a spot, you have to take it. And we’re not. So whether it’s changing who plays, whether it’s creating a new scheme, whether it’s subbing differently, whatever the case may be, we just have to figure that out."

Bradley, an all-defense first-teamer last season, wouldn't use the absence of Boston's injured players as an excuse for the struggles. He's hopeful that Stevens can help right this ship.

"It is disappointing, but I’m going to leave that up to Brad," Bradley said. "He’s a great coach, he’ll be able to call the guys out. He can use me as an example, whatever it takes for us to be where we need to be. I want us to get there because we have a great group of guys, guys that want to play hard and want to play the right way, to put it together so we can go out there and win games."

Stevens can't help but reflect on what he said on the eve of the season when he implored his team to bring the necessary defensive energy each day.

"I thought this was possible," Stevens said. "I think anytime that you have a year where you achieve relative success on one end of the floor, there’s slippage that’s bound to occur because shortcuts are bound to be taken. What’s most disappointing to me is the lack of physicality. But that’s on me, like I told you. I’ve got to play the guys that play more physical. That’s just the way it goes."
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Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2016, 02:14:56 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Whenever you say a finesse player has to be more physical you know you have problems.  Finesse players don't turn into physical players.  And when you have lots of finesse bigs and they don't put in much effort on top of that, we see stuff like we saw last night.

This is all on Danny.  He crafted this roster.

Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2016, 02:17:49 PM »

Offline tomrod

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Didnt catch last game but it seems to me theres too many young/unproven/zellerebko players on the roster for a team expecting a deep playoff run.
We are not deep without 3 important rotation players.
Without them, theres too many guys not ready and missing rotations

Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2016, 02:43:28 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Issues ....team dealing with


AB ....is nursing his shoulder ...he seems more cautious than normal on defense. 

KO.....out .. adds height and size to the interior , even if he isn't known for blocking .  He helps .

Smart ....looks about 75% at most.   ....he is still injured to my eye . 

Crowder ....out ......this kills us

Horford .......out good inside presence ....kills us

Brown .....Rookie ....doing his best

Zeller ......can 't stop big mobile 7 ft interior guys .....useless

Just the above handycap s  ....set this team up for an azzz whopping

Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2016, 03:04:57 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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I think it's a combination of things.

First, we're clearly not as defensively motivated or energetic as last year. I think that falls on the team as a whole, but certain individuals are much more to blame than others. That is plain to see.

Second, you simply can't overlook injuries. With Crowder, Horford, and Smart all missing several games, you're missing one or more elite-level defenders every night, which certainly isn't helping.

Third, we're having to rely heavily on guys that just aren't good defensively or are just not there yet with NBA defense. This includes Zeller, Brown, Rozier, and Green, who are bad at individual defense but kill us on rotations abd team defense, too.

Fourth, I think we're completely misusing Horford defensively. He's absolutely best suited as a center on defense (that's what he's been his entire career), and he's clearly our best rim protector. But we have him out chasing stretch 4's on the perimeter, which takes away his greatest strengths and doesn't allow him to really anchor the defense. Further, if you remember last year Sully guarded our centers and Amir was our 4, but apparently Amir aged 5 years this summer and isn't as mobile chasing 4's around. However, with JJ sucking so far, he's our best option right now. Still, HORFORD should be the 5 on the defense, and Amir should guard the 4's, with hopefully KO earning the spot when he comes back.

Finally, I also think there's just a natural slippage in defense when you're playing as offensively efficient as we are, though certainly not near this much. People don't realize how excellent we've been offensively. IT is actually putting up MVP type offensive numbers; Bradley and Crowder are both killing it; and Horford is the Second Coming with his playmaking ability in the offense.

So I think it's a combination of things. I expect to see a much more concerted effort on the defensive end from now on after last night, and the return of Horford and eventually Crowder will certainly help.

But don't be surprised to see Smart starting at the 3 until Crowder comes back. I've seen several writers figure this lineup change will happen to increase the defense at the start of the game, and with KO coming back, the second unit needs Smart less.
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Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2016, 03:18:25 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Our guards are sagging off their man because they can't trust Amir and Zeller to contest and rebound.

Re: What's Wrong With the Defense?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2016, 03:25:41 PM »

Offline MBunge

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I’ve got to play the guys that play more physical. That’s just the way it goes."

As good a coach as Stevens has been, this kind of statement just bewilders me.  What exactly has been stopping him from doing that?

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