Not a fan of IT as a starter

[Rosco917]

Having both AB and IT launch shots after shots is not the way I want to see this team start the game.  It doesnt matter if we are down 20 (like tonight), these guys have no conscious and keep chucking the ball

CBS is also at fault for letting this happen.  Where is the ball movement?  I remember those few games without Rondo or IT , the team passing was good.   When everyone becomes involved at both ends,  you become a team that is hard to beat.

IT should come off the bench again and we should start Smart at the pg position.  This way you get the team passing going as well as sufficate the starting pg early in the game

Bingo TP!

I like IT, he's a basketball weapon for sure, and a great teammate too.

But he's looking like a ball movement killer, he thinks first of scoring the ball, while everyone else stands around. This is really true when the C's fall behind, his patients all but disappear.

He's too small to be able to guard the new scoring PG's evolving in the NBA. He'd be MUCH more effective having to defend second line players, while dominating as he can much of the time.

As it stands the Celtics have small guards, add in IT and we have the smallest backcourt in the league by far, I don't care how strong of a defender AB is.

If you start Smart...immediately ball movement should return, players will get more involved, and get better looks, spacing will improve, and the C's may start actually running on offense. Defense will get much stronger, along with toughness. 

[walker834]

I do agree IT is primarily a scorer. He's not really a pg ala Rondo who's going to settle the offense down and run the show both offensivly and defensively.  Rondo wasn't even that at times when he should have been.  It's all about timing though.

It's a team game though.  When your center can't make or stop a layup it's a problem.  The whole team breaks down.  No layups.

It's still early.  The nba season is a marathon and not a sprint.  Tortoise and the hare. We do have to be better prepared and play tougher.

We got ahead of ourselves. You could just tell before the game.  Even Bradley being interviewed before the game because of his hot start.  He had to hold himself back.  I could just tell. 

I blame the media too. Just listening to Scal before the game and Draper.  These guys are not great sometimes.  Scal was saying we need to come out fast and play with speed.  Draper was saying Denver will go small and will play into our hands like this game was a given.  These guys are inexperienced themselves. 

The issue is mindset, toughness and a lack of preparedness period.

It's threads like this that show that too.  That's the problem with the internet and people.  People are human but it's really ridiculous if you've seen it enough.  The internet and life and people are full of this crap in general. Overreactions, assumptions gallore when they don't understand on so many levels.

I dont know where you are going with all of this

Bottom line ... this is a team game.  Stop with the hero ball bs. Pass the ball around.   Get mad at guys who dont take the open shot.

IT as a pg can direct the offense half the time without having the ball in his hands.  Again he is not a pure pg but he is a vet player 

And if IT cant do this half the time nor wants to, he is basically an offensive weapon  . As a 6th man... main job to provide scoring off the bench ... also less pressure to need to provide lockdown D

I'm just saying benching him after 1 loss is a bit much.  I agree with you though IT may not be the starter here forever.  I question whether he can be that kind of pg who can set the tone on defense and can settle the offense down in those spots. Right now we basically play with a multi guard offense where players switch off who runs the show.  I'd really like to see Marcus step into that role of a guy who can be the things you say and settle the offense down and play defense.  Who starts and who comes off the bench is a bit trivial to me though.  I think Marcus could be the starter ultimately. I'm with you in that.  Right now I'd just keep rolling with IT.

That's a tough decision where egos may be ruffled too.  I don't know if IT is that unselfish.    I am a fan of his but he's not the end all be all to me.

I'd more let Marcus learn in other ways right now where he ultimately could take over.   I'm not sure we are there yet is all.

Honestly if I had to flip a coin and say who starts I'd start Marcus for a few games see how it goes for kicks. I don't know if I want to do that 5 games into the season though.  Now may be a good time to try it because we are 5 games in  but I also don't want to ruffle too many feathers this early.  It's a tough call.

I prefer Marcus as the starter myself but it's a really tough call.

[walker834]

IT basically is the guy on this team right now to go with Horford and Crowder and BRadley and Amir.  Experience has won out in that which is fine.

I prefer Brown starting over Crowder as well but do I want to do that on a nightly basis I'm not so sure.  Crowder should be teh starter with Brown coming off the bench I think.  It's the same thing for different reasons.

We lost last night because of inexperience. Not because of the pg.

We lost because Zeller was a pile of nothing and we had other young guys around him like Brown who didn't know what to do in that situation.

If Amir was down and Horford and Crowder weren't and Zeller was starting no big deal.  He'd get away with the crap he does and we'd still probably win that game.

[CelticGuardian]

IT is doing his job and that is running our offense, which has been one of the league's best.

[walker834]

I think it's more about how to bring these younger guys along.  You throw them out there and have them learn by fire which has its pluses and minuses.  You can overly protect tehm where we see the flaws when they actually do start.  Or you can find an in between. I would keep doing that where players have to earn that role but also get experience where they can fail.  I think being unprepared is on brad in ways though too.

I agree IT is the guy right now.  It's really that simple.  We could start Marcus for a stretch sure.  IT later in his career may be the 6th man.

Weird thing is he should be getting paid as our guy right now.  He may end up getting paid later where he is more of a 6th man.

[Clench123]

Completely agree with OP

[walker834]

Marcus has to beat him out.  I think pg is one position we are fine either way really.  Marcus could start on this team and we'd be fine. Brown is another one who is getting close to that.

I think Marcus is closer than people think for sure to being our starter.

Zeller no..... Not playing like that.  Zeller could beat out Amir. I think the celtics tried that in ways.  Didn't work out too good.   Zeller was totally unprepared..

When you look at it though Zeller really could be our PF next to Horford but he's not doing it.

He let brad down. I think the object of what the celtics did was that in ways.  Amir isnt going to be here forever.  Kelly will get a shot too.

Brad is spot on saying he has to play the guys who are more physical.

[Tr1boy]

Marcus has to beat him out.  I think pg is one position we are fine either way really.  Marcus could start on this team and we'd be fine. Brown is another one who is getting close to that.

I think Marcus is closer than people think for sure to being our starter.

Zeller no..... Not playing like that.  Zeller could beat out Amir. I think the celtics tried that in ways.  Didn't work out too good.   Zeller was totally unprepared..

When you look at it though Zeller really could be our PF next to Horford but he's not doing it.

Marcus has IT beat on the defensive end... so does this mean CBS favors offense over defense?

Yesterday at times he had to have AB on Mudiay and IT would be roast against sg that are 6'4-6'5  (not sure if he got burnt, but this is what has been happening)

Yes our offense is doing well, and in theory wont slow down with IT coming off the bench and playing near starting mins anyways

[walker834]

I'm with you.  I'd love to start marcus.  I prefer more physical players myself and a more physical starting pg.

Brad did say he has to play guys who are more physical.  Does that mean starting marcus?  we will see.....

[walker834]

I think you were the guy who liked Sabonis as well.  That's what I want from zeller.  He could beat out Amir if he does that. I want crazy Zeller not the guy we see out there every night. 

Even if Zeller was more just solid but knew when to get crazy.  I'm still a fan of Zeller surprisingly.   I see signs from him.  Even as bad as it is.

[CelticGuardian]

I see signs of Zeller too... it's usually of the poster variety.

[walker834]

There are so many lineups we can go with.  I don't think Brad is afraid of switching it up.

STarting

Marcus
Bradley
Brown
Zeller
Horford

with

IT
KO
Crowder
Green
Rozier
Jackson
young

off the bench.   We are a team like that where he can switch it up in a variety of ways.

It's still early.  Let Zeller suck in the starting lineup.  M aybe a switch will flip and he will go nuts.

[walker834]

If we start Zeller long enough everyone may go nuts lol. 

[Vermont Green]

In order for IT to not be the starter, someone has to beat him out.  It would be great if we had someone else who is that good but right now it is not even close; IT is the best we have and he should be the starter.

Now if we were Golden State or Cleveland, yeah, IT would be coming off the bench and he would probably be very good in that role.  But we aren't so IT is a starter on this team and that is not likely to change anytime soon.

[showtime]

Without IT and Avery we average like 50 points a game.  We almost literally have no other real scoring threats so they basically have to game the lions share of shots.

The problem isn't IT or Avery chucking shots.  The problem is that neither is the caliber star that can carry a team all that far.

  Bingo!!