Cleveland Game Shows Us Why We Shouldn't Sign Hayward To The Max...

[otherdave]

This is a very good thread...

The Cleveland game showed me why C's should not sign IT to the max (I guess I am just frustrated when the Cavs pack the paint, he continues to attempt to penetrate & maneuver in
the pack to not much avail).

I don't want to part with any of our defensive studs (MS, AB, JC, JB).  If Gordon is the only UFA that wants to dance with us, and we feel compelled to use (or lose) our cap space, I would only bring on Gordon if we were really committed to playing a lot of small ball (a lot of JC & JB minutes at the four).  Of course if IT were gone (essentially subtracting IT and adding GH), that might open up enough minutes to go around at one thru three (MS/TR at one, AB/GH at two, JC/JB at three, with them playing some four as well, and GH sliding to the three).

It might be that our best chance to get another big (which I agree we need, don't want to see JC/JB at the four all of the time) is through the draft the next 2 years with the Nets picks - a healthy Harry Giles type.  That might require actually drafting for position, rather than BPA, which I know is not the preferred way.

Bottom line:  I totally trust in Danny.

You're aware that he got to the line 14 times and scored 30 points in that game correct?

Your point is well taken .  It was just the way his three turnovers (I know - not a lot of turnovers for a PG) occurred, and near turnovers reminded me of how the Cavs contained him in the playoffs last spring (I know we were short handed so that IT carried more of the burden to produce in those playoffs).

Again your point is well taken.  I will be watching closely this year to see how he performs against the top 8 teams in the league.

[aingeforthree]

(Hear Me Out)

First off, let me acknowledge that yes, we entered the Cleveland game with limited rest (the second night of a back to back), and without Crowder, Horford, and KO. I get that. It was a "scheduled loss" of some sorts because of those circumstances.

However, what didn't change was Cleveland's size and superior rebounding that hurt us a lot throughout the game. Look, a healthy Horford, KO and Crowder would have helped a ton and may have improved the rebounding, and neutralized Thompson to an extent.

But, if we want to really get close to Cleveland's level, we're just going to have to find another big who can score and rebound. Hayward might be a great shooter and a solid 2 or 3, but with Bradley/Crowder/Brown taking minutes at those positions, adding Hayward may complicate things.

Cleveland may have great shooters, no doubt, but they also got tons of size and they do a great job rebounding and creating second-chance points. At many points yesterday, the Cavs with their size stacked up the paint on defense and forced Boston to shoot outside the paint, and if the C's did attack the paint, many times they were blocked or stripped of the ball.

On offense, you saw the Cavs bigs driving to the paint and drawing double coverage, which led to the open pass to an open shooter (and trust me, you don't want to leave guys like Irving or James with space outside). Otherwise, fairly easy drives into the paint.

We might have Horford, but many of you will agree that Horford alone won't do it, they still need another big to go alongside Horford.

Again, don't get me wrong, we did well considering the circumstances, and the defense did have many great stands late in the game (kudos to Brown and Smart), but to get close to Cleveland's level, we need a guy like Griffin or Cousins, not Hayward. Hayward doesn't thread the needle for us, but a Griffin-caliber player does. Just what I feel. Now hopefully we get KO, Horford and Crowder back healthy for the next meeting against Cleveland.

That's why you get rid of Brown, Crowder, or Bradley in a package for a legit 5-man like Jordan or Cousins. Then you replace who went in trade with Hayward.

[beantownboy171]

I think most would prefer Blake Griffin over Hayward. The real question is what do you do if Griffin is not interested in coming here. Would you sign Paul Milsap over Hayward? Picking Milsap Would prioritize need over talent/youth. But it may be the right move. I think it comes down to how much confidence Danny has in trading for a big man. Signing Hayward might make a Cousins trade more feasible.

The bottom line is this offseason will be the last chance to spend big in free agency for many years to come. If Hayward is the best option in free agency I think Danny will pull the trigger.

[otherdave]

I think most would prefer Blake Griffin over Hayward. The real question is what do you do if Griffin is not interested in coming here. Would you sign Paul Milsap over Hayward? Picking Milsap Would prioritize need over talent/youth. But it may be the right move. I think it comes down to how much confidence Danny has in trading for a big man. Signing Hayward might make a Cousins trade more feasible.

The bottom line is this offseason will be the last chance to spend big in free agency for many years to come. If Hayward is the best option in free agency I think Danny will pull the trigger.

That's the million dollar question, isn't it?

Let's say Blake is off the table and either Gordon isn't interested or Danny figures Hayward is a redundancy & he isn't interested in GH.  At that point who would be tempted to do something that is realistically possible like resign KO (assuming he has a decent season) and Nerlens Noel (I am not a huge fan, but this is just a hypothetical) for at about an average of 15 mil/year each?  Does the following move the needle enough for next season?

IT/TR
AB/MS
JC/JB
AH/Harry Giles
NN/KO

We could debate who is starts vs. the second unit, but overall this looks like a pretty deep ten, but does it get you to the finals?

[Phantom255x]

I think most would prefer Blake Griffin over Hayward. The real question is what do you do if Griffin is not interested in coming here. Would you sign Paul Milsap over Hayward? Picking Milsap Would prioritize need over talent/youth. But it may be the right move. I think it comes down to how much confidence Danny has in trading for a big man. Signing Hayward might make a Cousins trade more feasible.

The bottom line is this offseason will be the last chance to spend big in free agency for many years to come. If Hayward is the best option in free agency I think Danny will pull the trigger.

If you add Hayward, then trade for Cousins, would it work under the cap two years from now, if Cousins and the Celtics want an extension?

There's also the matter of likely keeping IT and one of Bradley/Smart.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think most would prefer Blake Griffin over Hayward. The real question is what do you do if Griffin is not interested in coming here. Would you sign Paul Milsap over Hayward? Picking Milsap Would prioritize need over talent/youth. But it may be the right move. I think it comes down to how much confidence Danny has in trading for a big man. Signing Hayward might make a Cousins trade more feasible.

The bottom line is this offseason will be the last chance to spend big in free agency for many years to come. If Hayward is the best option in free agency I think Danny will pull the trigger.

If you add Hayward, then trade for Cousins, would it work under the cap two years from now, if Cousins and the Celtics want an extension?

There's also the matter of likely keeping IT and one of Bradley/Smart.

You don't need cap space to extend your own players who have Bird Rights (like Cousins would have, and as IT, Bradley, and Smart would have).

[Phantom255x]

I think most would prefer Blake Griffin over Hayward. The real question is what do you do if Griffin is not interested in coming here. Would you sign Paul Milsap over Hayward? Picking Milsap Would prioritize need over talent/youth. But it may be the right move. I think it comes down to how much confidence Danny has in trading for a big man. Signing Hayward might make a Cousins trade more feasible.

The bottom line is this offseason will be the last chance to spend big in free agency for many years to come. If Hayward is the best option in free agency I think Danny will pull the trigger.

If you add Hayward, then trade for Cousins, would it work under the cap two years from now, if Cousins and the Celtics want an extension?

There's also the matter of likely keeping IT and one of Bradley/Smart.

You don't need cap space to extend your own players who have Bird Rights (like Cousins would have, and as IT, Bradley, and Smart would have).

Right for some reason I completely forgot about Cousins bird rights as well. Thanks.

[SuddenFame]

That's why you get rid of Brown, Crowder, or Bradley in a package for a legit 5-man like Jordan or Cousins. Then you replace who went in trade with Hayward.

If Danny Ainge were to trade Jaylen Brown for a center who can't play late in the fourth quarter because he can't hit the broadside of a barn, I would immediately stop following the Celtics, and probably the NBA altogether. 

[footey]

That's why you get rid of Brown, Crowder, or Bradley in a package for a legit 5-man like Jordan or Cousins. Then you replace who went in trade with Hayward.

If Danny Ainge were to trade Jaylen Brown for a center who can't play late in the fourth quarter because he can't hit the broadside of a barn, I would immediately stop following the Celtics, and probably the NBA altogether.

I'm with you.

[GRADYCOLNON]

With the cap holds for Olynyk and the Nets 1st, I don't believe we'll have enough for a MAX contract assuming a 102/103M cap.

I agree with your math.  C's would have to make some other moves, i.e. not offer KO a QO, thus removing his 7.7 cap hold.

we would need to renounce a lot of talent if we decide to chase a MAX level talent.  Getting the Bird rights for that MAX player is our best option to control our cap space in the future

[GRADYCOLNON]

I think most would prefer Blake Griffin over Hayward. The real question is what do you do if Griffin is not interested in coming here. Would you sign Paul Milsap over Hayward? Picking Milsap Would prioritize need over talent/youth. But it may be the right move. I think it comes down to how much confidence Danny has in trading for a big man. Signing Hayward might make a Cousins trade more feasible.

The bottom line is this offseason will be the last chance to spend big in free agency for many years to come. If Hayward is the best option in free agency I think Danny will pull the trigger.

If you add Hayward, then trade for Cousins, would it work under the cap two years from now, if Cousins and the Celtics want an extension?

There's also the matter of likely keeping IT and one of Bradley/Smart.

You don't need cap space to extend your own players who have Bird Rights (like Cousins would have, and as IT, Bradley, and Smart would have).

Right for some reason I completely forgot about Cousins bird rights as well. Thanks.

who would we have to renounce to sign Hayward and what would that lineup look like?