Author Topic: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency  (Read 6355 times)

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Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« on: November 04, 2016, 01:04:34 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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What's going on?

Is it just small sample size theater?  I would point to Jae Crowder's absence in one game, and Horford's absence in two, but the defense hasn't really looked good in any game so far this season.

Is Kelly Olynyk that important to our defense?  Are we under-appreciating what Sullinger and Turner did for the team defensively?

The team is also playing at a league-average pace, rather than leading the league in that category.  Regardless, the Celts are 2nd in Offensive Efficiency (significantly behind the leader -- the Cavs).  So they are doing very, very well on the other end.

This team's calling card was supposed to be defense, though.  What gives?
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Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2016, 01:11:14 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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What's going on?

Is it just small sample size theater?  I would point to Jae Crowder's absence in one game, and Horford's absence in two, but the defense hasn't really looked good in any game so far this season.

Is Kelly Olynyk that important to our defense?  Are we under-appreciating what Sullinger and Turner did for the team defensively?

The team is also playing at a league-average pace, rather than leading the league in that category.  Regardless, the Celts are 2nd in Offensive Efficiency (significantly behind the leader -- the Cavs).  So they are doing very, very well on the other end.

This team's calling card was supposed to be defense, though.  What gives?

Give it a couple of weeks.  The whole team still needs to mesh defensively, especially with Horford, and Brad needs to get the rotations figured out (unfortunately injuries have messed up both of these things).  This team has too much defensive talent to be doing as bad as they are.

Another possibility is that our defensive rebounding is just that bad and has that much of an effect
I'm bitter.

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Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2016, 01:13:07 PM »

Offline TrueFan

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It feels like we are getting killed from three. Anyone have the stats on that?

Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2016, 01:15:13 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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I'm a little worried right now. Not too much though. Let's wait till we're healthy

I do have to wonder though: regarding our pace, what pace did Atlanta play at? Does adding Horford have an effect on that? Do we play a bit slower with a legit big?
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

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Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 01:20:33 PM »

Online blink

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What's going on?

Is it just small sample size theater?  I would point to Jae Crowder's absence in one game, and Horford's absence in two, but the defense hasn't really looked good in any game so far this season.

Is Kelly Olynyk that important to our defense?  Are we under-appreciating what Sullinger and Turner did for the team defensively?

The team is also playing at a league-average pace, rather than leading the league in that category.  Regardless, the Celts are 2nd in Offensive Efficiency (significantly behind the leader -- the Cavs).  So they are doing very, very well on the other end.

This team's calling card was supposed to be defense, though.  What gives?

Give it a couple of weeks.  The whole team still needs to mesh defensively, especially with Horford, and Brad needs to get the rotations figured out (unfortunately injuries have messed up both of these things).  This team has too much defensive talent to be doing as bad as they are.

Another possibility is that our defensive rebounding is just that bad and has that much of an effect

I think your last statement is a good possibility.   After 5 games we are 5th in DFG% holding teams to 43.1%.

Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 01:21:51 PM »

Online blink

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It feels like we are getting killed from three. Anyone have the stats on that?

36.1% based on this site:
http://stats.nba.com/league/team/defense/#!/3pt/?sort=FG3_PCT&dir=1

Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2016, 01:31:18 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Haven't been at full strength and teams have been bombing us, plus small sample sizes. We'll revert before long.

Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2016, 01:32:32 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I'm a little worried right now. Not too much though. Let's wait till we're healthy

I do have to wonder though: regarding our pace, what pace did Atlanta play at? Does adding Horford have an effect on that? Do we play a bit slower with a legit big?

I think it's our lack of defensive rebounding. It's hard to push the pace when you have the whole team looking for the rebound instead of running in transition, plus the pace slows down when the other team keeps the ball for a minute or more with all their offensive rebounding
I'm bitter.

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Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2016, 01:42:40 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It is very early, so hopefully most of this will smooth out over time.

But ...

Celts are 29th in Defensive Rebounding Rate.

Celts are 23rd in Opponent 3P% (36.1).

Celts are 27th in Opponent 3Pers made per game (11.2).

Celts are 29th in Opponent 3P attempts per game (31.0).


It's hard to control how well your opponents shoot from beyond the arc.  A lot of that is statistical noise.  But giving up a lot of attempts from deep is a bad look, just as giving up a lot of attempts inside is a bad look, though at least the Celts are top 10 in opponent points in the paint.

Giving up a lot of shots from outside AND not rebounding misses is a really bad look.

You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2016, 01:44:10 PM »

Offline footey

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I'm a little worried right now. Not too much though. Let's wait till we're healthy

I do have to wonder though: regarding our pace, what pace did Atlanta play at? Does adding Horford have an effect on that? Do we play a bit slower with a legit big?

I think it's our lack of defensive rebounding. It's hard to push the pace when you have the whole team looking for the rebound instead of running in transition, plus the pace slows down when the other team keeps the ball for a minute or more with all their offensive rebounding

Hadn't thought about the connection, great point, TP.

Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2016, 01:47:39 PM »

Online blink

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It is very early, so hopefully most of this will smooth out over time.

But ...

Celts are 29th in Defensive Rebounding Rate.

Celts are 23rd in Opponent 3P% (36.1).

Celts are 27th in Opponent 3Pers made per game (11.2).

Celts are 29th in Opponent 3P attempts per game (31.0).


It's hard to control how well your opponents shoot from beyond the arc.  A lot of that is statistical noise.  But giving up a lot of attempts from deep is a bad look, just as giving up a lot of attempts inside is a bad look, though at least the Celts are top 10 in opponent points in the paint.

Giving up a lot of shots from outside AND not rebounding misses is a really bad look.

The stat I hate the most is your 1st line.  Now some of that may be from taking a lot of 3s and the long rebounds.  But 29th in def. rebounding rate isn't going to get it done.  If it wasn't for our offense clicking on all cylinders we could very well be 1-4. 

If this continues into the 3rd or 4th week of the season DA will probably need to find another post player that can do some dirty work and rebound the ball.

Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2016, 01:52:14 PM »

Offline bdm860

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I think part of it is small sample size (giving up 128 and 117 points in 2 of the 5 games), and part of it is scheduling.  3 of 5 on the road, 2 of 5 have been the 2nd night of a back-to-back, and only 1 of 5 has the opponent been coming off a back-to-back (and that's CHA, the one opponent the C's have held under 100, barely though at 98).  2 of the 5 have been home openers for the opponent.  Also 4 of 5 have been against probable playoff teams.  And has any opposing team been missing key rotation players?

As the season goes on, teams won't be so fresh and Boston plays some more bottom feeders, things should even out some. 

Through 5 games for Boston, and 3-5 games in for everybody else, this is how the rank in various stats:

Opponent 3P% - 23
Opponent FG% - 5
Opponent ORB - 29
Opponent TO - 26
Steals - 22
Blocks - 4
DRtg - 29

It's still way too early to jump to any conclusions, but for a team that prides itself on defense and that features 3 perimeter oriented All-Defensive candidates (2 of which have been available at all times), to have the C's rank so low in Steals and opponent TO (ranked 2nd in both last year) and opponent 3P% (ranked 4th last year) is a little disappointing.   But that's only because I always hope for the team to set the world on fire and go 82-0.  I still expect them to be top 5 in those categories by the end of the year.

Too early to worry.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 02:36:13 PM by bdm860 »

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Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2016, 01:53:12 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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We have been missing at least one of the 4 great defensive players we have every game.  Not taking anything from this yet.
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Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2016, 01:54:02 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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It's hard to control how well your opponents shoot from beyond the arc. 

Especially when the Bulls had that absurd once in a lifetime game against us.  It's early.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Through 5, Celts are 29th in Defensive Efficiency
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2016, 02:02:34 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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I honestly think effort is playing a big part in this. Also more people are taking advantage of Thomas on offense since he is the major weak link.