I hope Ainge doesn't screw up our strength

[alldaboston]

Marcus is an unbelievable defender who makes game winning plays.  He made a huge one last night and almost hit the shot as well.  He makes game winning plays.  He might not be the star jaylen is but he does so many things if you watch the games.  His offense is still coming and he's a leader on this team.

Rozier is really being asked to be the guy to set the tone with the second unit and just go which is fine but Marcus is like the ying to his yang. Rozier is going to have his ups and downs this year.

Marcus was the guy you could see getting on hunter when he was missing shots.  Marcus is a leader.

I can see Ainge thinking Marcus needs to start somewhere and lead a young team and trade him and I hope he doesnt do that where we get our center.  He can lead our second unit as the first guy off the bench and jaylen can get time too over Amir and Crowder and Bradley need to rest anyways. So do our starters at times.

what? danny doesnt care about the feelings of our players (for the most part) or whether he thinks they "need" to lead anything. marcus may be a leader and want to lead a young team or whatever, but danny isnt gonna just trade him for that.

[walker834]

I agree. I think Smart is a perfect 1st guy off the bench to lead our 2nd unit.  Rozier can do it with pace but is going to have his ups and downs and is not the leader smart is.  Neither is jaylen.

Smart sets the tone with his defense and just calming presence.  Then he cobras people.  And makes beautiful layups and hits big shots sometimes. That's still coming.

He can play so many positions. 

[mmmmm]

I like the analogy that we are only as good as our weakest link

In my opinion, that analogy only works in the NBA in certain scopes.

A 5-man unit is usually defensively as week as it's weakest link.   But a 5-man unit can be offensively as strong as it's strongest single player.

Classically, an NBA roster is a strong as it's strongest 5-man unit.   That's what decides success in the playoffs.  Because in the playoffs, team's shorten their rotations and on the top teams it is not uncommon for the 5 best players to go way over 36 mpg.

The guys sitting on the end of the bench can be the worst players in the world and it won't matter if they never get minutes.  We won that title in 2008 with a few ... very interesting names sitting on the end of the bench.

Obviously, you need some adequate bench because your starters can't play 48 minutes for 82 games and then survive the playoffs.   Good, competent bench depth is needed to really stay afloat when starters are resting or injured.

The middle of the roster (players 6-10) is thus a lot more important than the end of the bench (11-15), but still, nowhere near as important as the 5 at the top of the rotation.

[walker834]

Even the 08 team had Scal at the end of the bench though.  I think you have guys that can come in and hit shots and just an overall feeling of improving it's important and sometimes the difference between winning a championship or not.  Teams that have those magical seasons usually have that extra something. There are the wilts and lebrons of the world but the C's have never been that.  Yeah we have really great players though.

[Ilikesports17]

Even the 08 team had Scal at the end of the bench though.  I think you have guys that can come in and hit shots and just an overall feeling of improving it's important and sometimes the difference between winning a championship or not.  Teams that have those magical seasons usually have that extra something. There are the wilts and lebrons of the world but the C's have never been that.  Yeah we have really great players though.

This whole winding string of posts that dont actually say anything is only being even close to well recieved because its completely unfounded conclusion is that we will be nasty.

Lebron James has won the Eastern Conference 7 times in a row. Steph Curry has won the west twice in a row having only really been challenged by the Kevin Durant led warriors. The last team to come out of the East without Lebron was the Celtics who had 4 all stars. Before that was the Magic with Dwight Howard, then the Celtics with superstars and Ray Allen, then we are back to Lebron, Wade + Shaq, then the Pistons. In the West, you have 2 steph Currys then the Spurs with a smooth Duncan to Leonard transition, the you have Kevin Durant then Dirk Nowitzki then a bunch of Kobe Bryant.

Basically the easiest path to winning a ring is via a superstar. It appears to me that you are aware that we do not have one so you have created this imaginary x factor that we magically have so that you can justifiably say we are going to win a ring because of effort or friendship or something.

Yes, right now we are in waiting room, just waiting for Steph to get hurt or Lebron to get hit in the face with father time. however, right now our x factor isnt winning us a ring. If we want to be true contenders we need another star.

[walker834]

They've also had no competition.  We are good now. San Antonio was up there  but Duncan is gone now. 

Magic and those 80's lakers also won the west like 9 times.  jordan didnt do anything until Bird and Magic were gone. 

I don't think just because it's one way means we can't compete. The 70's celtics built with speed. he pistons won in other ways.  There have been teams that build their own identity. 

[walker834]

Lebron has always been heralded as that but  Curry, Klay and Draymond were not that until they became that. I really liked those guys but a lot of people didnt even know who Draymond was.

Even Kobe wasn't a top draft pick. Garnett was top 5. 

jaylen brown was picked at 3.  Paul George wasn't a top draft pick either.  Neither was Dirk. Michael jordan wasn't the consensus #1 pick.  Neither was Bill Russell.  Or Bird for that matter.

Kawii Leonard wasn't a top pick either. Neither was Pierce.

Dwade nope. Sure there are the Shaqs and Chamberlains and Magic johnsons.

Why can't jaylen be that though?  Isaiah Thomas.  HOrford.  These are big time players.

[walker834]

john havlicek was the 7th pick in the draft.  Those teams were so talented it didn't matter. They had Russell and Heinsohn and sam jones and cousy.  It didn't matter.  They were more talented than everyone else. Chamberlain was not that good. He hogged the ball to much and if you could slow him down it didn't matter. He had an allstar team too but it was basically our talent level and how we played that was underrated.

[walker834]

I don't care what GS is doing overly.  They are also going to be maxed out with 4 max players for a long time.  The cap is going up.  Lebron is also in cleveland.  What people are missing is we aren't going to get those guys.  Our overall talent level has to be better. With the guys we have and picks to make deals to do that is what we want.  We aren't going to pay 4 max guys right now.  There is noone in the league worth that who we could get.

Our  4 guys aren't going to beat their 4 guys.  They have Lebron adn Curry and Durant and guys like that.

Our team is going to be better served to build and spend money throughout our roster.  Obviously we will  have some guys but we already do.

Our overall talent will be better than theirs if we pick the guys we like who play a certain way and develop the culture here and our own style which is what we've been doing.

[Ilikesports17]

help me out here man, what the hell are you trying to say.

I agree with these two statements
1. We need to improve the overall talent level
2. It is very unlikely we will be able to put together a big 4 that can rival GS's so we need to maintain depth as a strength.

After that, who cares where guys were drafted. It seems entirely irrelevant to this discussion. What was the point of this post? I dont mean that in an Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. way, I mean like in a succinct sentence or two that you would present to an employer or professor, what is the point of this post.

[walker834]

I don't know what to tell  you.  The title of the thread is that and I explained in detail why that is.  If you are missing the point maybe it's you?

The response is that we need so and so to beat teams like Cleveland or GS when that's not how it can be done.

GS is having their randy moss moment and we will probably spend money too but our strength is in our overall talent and how we play. It's more complicated than that but I explained all that.  It's how we match up and what we can do.

I hope Ainge doesn't trade off important cogs on this team to get so and so because he's supposedly better.

It obvously depends but basketball wise and mathematically that is not how it works. We are going to add players regardless.

[walker834]

Marcus Smart and jaylen brown were the 6th and 3rd pick respectively and are important cogs off our bench. So is Crowder and Bradley and they are signed to reasonable contracts. So is Isaiah and Horford.  There are only so many positions.  We may add another max guy but we have draft picks as well.  Just because some guy is starting on another team doesn't mean they are more important to us than the guys we have.

Havlicek was a bench player once too. jaylen brown could be that. 

I am way ahead of people or something. I think I'm just looking at our talent and how it all makes sense.  I hope Ainge doesn't screw that up and builds with these guys.

[crimson_stallion]

Hopefully we don't end up regretting letting turner and sully walk.  Both made key contributions last season.

Our bench lost us a preseason game against Philly's d-league lineup.  Not a big deal, but not the most encouraging of signs. 

Hopefully Gerald Green and Olynyk help.

I wouldn't be too concerned.  Rozier, Brown, Jackson, Mickey and Young have 115 games of combined NBA experience (all garbage time bar Rozier's 6 playoff games) - I'd expect it to take those guys a good 10-20 games to start building confidence and chemistry as a unit.   

As you noted we were also without both Olynyk and Green, who will potentially both be key contributers on that second unit - I assume Rozier, Smart, Green and Brown between them will be taking up all of the 50-60 minutes that project to be available at the PG/SG/SF spots. 

That means that we really only had three bench guys (Smart, Zeller and Jerebko) who have actual proper NBA experience.

Once Green and Olynyk return, BS has settled on a steady rotation, and they have played in 10-20 NBA games as a unit, I would imagine this is going to be one of the stronger second units in the NBA.

As for Turner and Sully - they both contributed for sure, more so Turner - but unfortunatley you can't keep everybody. 

Sully was so bad in the playoffs that Brad pretty much had to bench him (he was losing us possessions as soon as he stepped on the court) and his lack of dedication was beyond alarming. 

Turner was a huge loss, but as much as I liked Turner even I wouldn't have matched the crazy offer he was given.  Between Green and Brown, I'm confident we'll be able to replace a lot of what he offered - though he will certainly be missed.

[Ilikesports17]

Marcus Smart and jaylen brown were the 6th and 3rd pick respectively and are important cogs off our bench. So is Crowder and Bradley and they are signed to reasonable contracts. So is Isaiah and Horford.  There are only so many positions.  We may add another max guy but we have draft picks as well.  Just because some guy is starting on another team doesn't mean they are more important to us than the guys we have.

Havlicek was a bench player once too. jaylen brown could be that. 

I am way ahead of people or something. I think I'm just looking at our talent and how it all makes sense.  I hope Ainge doesn't screw that up and builds with these guys.

So basically your argument is twofold: dont sell low on guys like Smart Brown and Rozier and dont sacrifice cap space and future flexibility to acquire just any star because that could result in a roster that doesnt make sense or cut our talent ceiling off somewhere below the threshold required to win a title.

Am I reading that wrong

[walker834]

Marcus Smart and jaylen brown were the 6th and 3rd pick respectively and are important cogs off our bench. So is Crowder and Bradley and they are signed to reasonable contracts. So is Isaiah and Horford.  There are only so many positions.  We may add another max guy but we have draft picks as well.  Just because some guy is starting on another team doesn't mean they are more important to us than the guys we have.

Havlicek was a bench player once too. jaylen brown could be that. 

I am way ahead of people or something. I think I'm just looking at our talent and how it all makes sense.  I hope Ainge doesn't screw that up and builds with these guys.

So basically your argument is twofold: dont sell low on guys like Smart Brown and Rozier and dont sacrifice cap space and future flexibility to acquire just any star because that could result in a roster that doesnt make sense or cut our talent ceiling off somewhere below the threshold required to win a title.

Am I reading that wrong

Nope that's about right although it obviously depends if something comes along.