Words from Jaylen's Off-Season Trainer

[LarBrd33]

I always take what trainers say with a grain of salt.  I mean if they insult the guy they are training or come down on him will they have a job training them?   Most likely not.

yeah.  Anthony Bennett's trainer raved about him on Twitter last summer.

In fairness to that coach haven't you also been a victim of Bennett's potential in post suggesting the team go get him on here? Also you believe Embid fluff pieces but not this one on Brown?

I'm not judging one way or the other.  I'm just saying that Bennett is an example of a trainer who raved about him last Summer.

Fine just pointing it out though so you are aware that we are aware.

celtics4ever says he always takes what trainers say with a grain of salt.  I'm pointing out that Anthony Bennett's trainer raved about him.   I haven't heard one word from Embiid's trainer, so that's irrelevant.

Jaylen is a comparable level prospect to Bennett when he came out.  Our hope is that jaylen succeeds where Bennett has failed so far.  We haven't seen much development out of Bennett yet despite word from his trainer.  Maybe this is the year.

[Csfan1984]

I always take what trainers say with a grain of salt.  I mean if they insult the guy they are training or come down on him will they have a job training them?   Most likely not.

yeah.  Anthony Bennett's trainer raved about him on Twitter last summer.

In fairness to that coach haven't you also been a victim of Bennett's potential in post suggesting the team go get him on here? Also you believe Embid fluff pieces but not this one on Brown?

I'm not judging one way or the other.  I'm just saying that Bennett is an example of a trainer who raved about him last Summer.

Fine just pointing it out though so you are aware that we are aware.

celtics4ever says he always takes what trainers say with a grain of salt.  I'm pointing out that Anthony Bennett's trainer raved about him.   I haven't heard one word from Embiid's trainer, so that's irrelevant.

Jaylen is a comparable level prospect to Bennett when he came out.  Our hope is that jaylen succeeds where Bennett has failed so far.  We haven't seen much development out of Bennett yet despite word from his trainer.  Maybe this is the year.

Really Brown is comparable to Bennett?

[Celtics4ever]

celtics4ever says he always takes what trainers say with a grain of salt.  I'm pointing out that Anthony Bennett's trainer raved about him.   I haven't heard one word from Embiid's trainer, so that's irrelevant.

If they bad mouth their guys they will not be their trainer much longer in the pros.   Trainers rave because it gets the player good press and them business.

[LarBrd33]

I always take what trainers say with a grain of salt.  I mean if they insult the guy they are training or come down on him will they have a job training them?   Most likely not.

yeah.  Anthony Bennett's trainer raved about him on Twitter last summer.

In fairness to that coach haven't you also been a victim of Bennett's potential in post suggesting the team go get him on here? Also you believe Embid fluff pieces but not this one on Brown?

I'm not judging one way or the other.  I'm just saying that Bennett is an example of a trainer who raved about him last Summer.

Fine just pointing it out though so you are aware that we are aware.

celtics4ever says he always takes what trainers say with a grain of salt.  I'm pointing out that Anthony Bennett's trainer raved about him.   I haven't heard one word from Embiid's trainer, so that's irrelevant.

Jaylen is a comparable level prospect to Bennett when he came out.  Our hope is that jaylen succeeds where Bennett has failed so far.  We haven't seen much development out of Bennett yet despite word from his trainer.  Maybe this is the year.

Really Brown is comparable to Bennett?

When Bennett came out, yeah.  Both level 3 prospects in The Tiers™.  Both drafted for similar reasons over better short-term options with hopes of long-term success.   Both Raw and lacking NBA skills, but showing tools that could potentially be developed... their tools were even described the same way -  NBA size, explosive, quickness, athleticism, shot mechanics.   Both were taken high in the draft for lack of better obvious options (Bennett going #1, Jaylen going #3) mainly because of their perceived higher ceilings.  If we're comparing Jaylen vs Bennett when both entered the draft, it's a coin flip which one the Cavs take first.

Outside of the top 2 guys (Simmons and Ingram), the 2016 draft in general is seen as comparable talent-wise with how the 2013 draft was perceived at the time (weak draft with some decent potential starters/role players available at the top).   

Obviously, Bennett didn't make the adjustment well.  He wasn't motivated.  He had some physical setbacks.  He ended up in the worst possible situation.   Jaylen, on the flip side, seems motivated for now and is joining a great situation for a player's development (quality NBA-level talent, playoff team, great coaching, etc).

Anyways... I was simply backing up celtics4ever's statement that he doesn't trust trainers.  Bennett's trainer has raved about him the past two summers.   To be fair, Jaylen's trainer doesn't even seem to be raving about him.  The closest thing in the original post to "raving" is his matter-of-fact statement:  "I also feel like Jaylen has an opportunity to be able to have a deadly mid-post game "... That's the closest thing in that entire block of quotes that could be considered praising Jaylen - the obvious statement that he has potential to maybe have a deadly mid-post game some day.   Nothing is being said there about his currently level of skill. 

On the flip side, Bennett's trainer was ga-ga over him last Summer claiming that he had made progress.
   

On the bright side, Bennett has started working with trainer Drew Hanlen, who had previously trained Wiggins and Zach LaVine. Bennett seems motivated to find his game and at least make himself a serviceable power forward in the near future for the Timberwolves.
Hanlen tweeted a link to an Instagram video yesterday showing some highlights from his workouts with Bennett. They are reportedly working on some shot mechanics, footwork, and added post moves.

Said the trainer:

Started working with 2013 #1 pick @ab3nnett two weeks ago & he's already lost 12lbs, improved his shooting mechanics & added a ton of mid-post moves. I know a lot of y'all have given up on him, but trust me, he's working his butt off & will make a big statement next season!

Said a different trainer about Bennett just 3 months ago:

Andrew Moore, the director of player development at Impact Las Vegas, told SNY.tv. “He can play multiple spots on the floor. He can take it off the floor, he can shoot mid-range, he can make threes. So I think he’s well rounded enough to fit into the triangle or any system. He can play pick-and-roll, he can roll hard, he can finish above the rim. He can catch and finish and score. He can pop and shoot threes. Any system would be great for him.”''

"I think what he does is very valuable these days," he said. "He's big, strong and powerful but he also has great feet so I think being able to guard fours and threes. He can actually shoot very well, which is a valuable skill. He can play the pick-and-roll game well.

"I think he can help someone, he just needs to get on the court and get reps and get somewhere where they have a role for him, they have a position for him. I think he'll flourish."

[Granath]

When Bennett came out, yeah.  Both level 3 prospects in The Tiers™.  Both drafted for similar reasons over better short-term options with hopes of long-term success.   Both Raw and lacking NBA skills, but showing tools that could potentially be developed... their tools were even described the same way -  NBA size, explosive, quickness, athleticism, shot mechanics.   Both were taken high in the draft for lack of better obvious options (Bennett going #1, Jaylen going #3).  If we're comparing Jaylen vs Brown when both entered the draft, they are about even. 

You could use that reasoning to compare half the players in NBA drafts. Most guys who get drafted are athletic and raw. It's so vague as to be entirely useless. There is no reasonable, specific comparison between these two players.

Bennett's attitude issues and conditioning were noted repeatedly coming into the draft.

The place where Bennett has the most room to improve at the moment seems to be on the defensive end. He often looks like he's only going half speed here, jogging the floor lackadaisically, relaxing in his stance whenever he can, and losing his focus easily. He regularly gives up deep post position to opposing big men without putting up much of a fight, and loses track of his matchup relatively frequently off the ball. Like many young players, Bennett's fundamentals are fairly poor on this end of the floor, and his intensity leaves a lot to be desired at times. Maximizing his conditioning-level could help here.

-DraftExpressProfile

It's hard to avoid hyperbole here: Bennett might be the single most unaware defensive prospect I've ever seen. There is nothing he does well on this end, and those shortcomings are due entirely to his effort.

There are some questions about his toughness. He's got a massive frame with incredible strength, but for as big and strong as he is, it doesn't always appear that he seeks out contact, or play with ferocity on the boards ... While averaging a team high 8 rebounds a game, at times he appears disinterested defensively. In Bennett's defense he spent the beginning of the season defending the opposition's Center until teammate Khem Birch became eligible, but defending is also about desire.

- nbadraft.net

There were three major questions about Bennett coming into the NBA:

(1) His 'tweener status
(2) His conditioning/desire
(3) His injury history

None of those 3 are questions with Brown. Brown is clearly a SF, his conditioning/desire aren't in question and he has no injury history that would give people pause. 

You also have to consider that almost every mock draft had Bennett going between 6th and 10th. I've only found one that had him as high as 4th. Bennett likely had major mental issues dealing with the pressure of being the #1 overall pick. Brown doesn't face that - in fact, he has the enviable situation of NOT having to be the face of the franchise. These two guys - in their skill set, demeanor, temperament and situation - are so different that comparisons between the two are simply nonsense and made by people who are looking for yet another reason to complain about the pick.

[crimson_stallion]

When Bennett came out, yeah.  Both level 3 prospects in The Tiers™.  Both drafted for similar reasons over better short-term options with hopes of long-term success.   

This comparison is WAY off the mark.  Let me tell you why.

Both Raw and lacking NBA skills , but showing tools that could potentially be developed

Pretty much irrelevant given that this describes most freshman prospects.  18 and 19 year old kids generally aren't very NBA ready on draft day - they are almost always low floor, high ceiling guys.  People looked at Wiggins the same was when he was drafted. 

... their tools were even described the same way -  NBA size, explosive, quickness, athleticism, shot mechanics.   

Seriously? 

1) Anthony Bennet has NBA size?  He's a PF and is 6'7" with a 7'1" wingspan - he's basically the exact same size as Brandon Bass.  He's massively undersized for the PF spot.  By comparison Brown is a SF and yet he's within one inch of Bennett in every measurement (height, wingspan, etc).  He's got genuinely good size for his position, Bennet absolutely does not.

2) Anythony Bennet has athleticism in much the same way as Yabusele does.  He's not even remotely close to being an elite athlete, but relative to his size and position he's a pretty good athlete.  Jaylen Brown is an elite athlete, regardless of size or position.  He was almost unanimously regarded as the most impressive (and explosive) athlete in this year's draft, period.   

You want to compare Bennet to somebody, compare him to Yabusele.  They are pretty much the exact same player, and Yabusele didn't even make the lottery.

Both were taken high in the draft for lack of better obvious options (Bennett going #1, Jaylen going #3) mainly because of their perceived higher ceilings.  If we're comparing Jaylen vs Bennett when both entered the draft, it's a coin flip which one the Cavs take first.

Bennet was taken high in the draft because the Cleveland staff are total morons. No other reason.  He never looked like anything resembling a future star.  He looked like a poor man's Paul Millsap at best, and even that was a long shot.   

[LarBrd33]

Yeah I don't blame people for nitpicking and being defensive of a Jaylen vs Anthony Bennett comp even if it's accurate to say that that jaylen is a comparable-level prospect to Bennett when Bennett came out.  It's hard for most people to shake their current perception when thinking critically about why and how Anthony bennett went #1 in an NBA draft.  It's similar reasons for why Jaylen Brown went #3 in an NBA draft.  Whether or not Jaylen will bust or develop depends on where he goes from now.   Perhaps Bennett would have been successful had he not ended up on the Cavs.

Also, it's hard for people to think critically about this when it's me making this statement.  So in order to help you distance this accurate statement from your perception of me, I'll share a random interaction I found between two members of an nbadraft.net forum a couple months ago.  The thread was titled "Jaylen Brown will be an all-star" and these quotes do a great job of summing it up:  http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/jaylen-brown-will-be-allstar

OhCanada:  "He's gonna be very good. Brad Stevens gets the most of his guys and always has them playing good inspired team basketball. His players improve whether they are 19 or 32. Brown will continue to improve and when his skill catches up to his physical gifts he will be a problem for the league. "

BeastMode716:  "After seeing Brown at Cal this year, I was shocked he was picked anywhere in the Top 10 of the 2016 Draft & I think it speaks more to the incredible weakness of this Draft than anything else.

Brown was a flat out Bad basketball player Univ of Cal this past year

I luv what the Celtics have done building their team & I don't really blame them for the Brown pick b/c outside of Simmons & Ingram there was really No one in the 2016 Draft who could help an NBA playoff team

but I just can not see Brown playing much at all for Stevens this year other than garabge time - he is a very poor decision maker - absolutely can not create his own shot - is prone to turning the ball over & he can not shoot.

Aigne would have done well to get almost Any starting NBA player for that #3 pick b/c it was just about worthless to a team looking to challenge Cleveland in the East."

r377:  "I don't think Jaylen Brown will be an all-star. High School hype can only get you so far.....

Its funny how many kids on here are like sheep and cannot think for themselves.

If someone is top 4 or 5 ranked highschooler, has a few nice dunks in his mixtape, then is ranked highly on the mocks most the year and gets drafted high on draft day, then most kids just follow the herd and ASSUME they will be an all-star player.

I remember when Anthony Bennett, Terrence Ross and Dion Waiters all got drafted higher than expected, a lot of bandwagoners quickly changed their mind and started jumped on the hype train just because they got drafted so high and you would be quickly negged if you didn't follow the crowd.

I bet if Jaylen Brown was taken at 8 (like most of us had him) this thread would not of even been created....

OhCanada-:  "If he was taken 8th to the Kings then no it wouldn't have. But if traded to the Suns yes I think he would develop into an All-star. Wolves-nah, Pelicans-Nah, Nuggets-Nah. Celtics and Suns were his two best landing spots IMO. I've seen much less developed into much more, Stevens is one of the best player development coaches in the world and Boston has all the resources necessary to make it work. Brown will be fine."

I essentially agree with every statement made by those unbiased fans on nbadraft.net.   Brown is a comparable-level prospect to Anthony Bennett when Bennett came out.   Both were raw prospects being drafted for their hopeful ceilings.   Neither was expected to contribute immediately.   We are right to be optimistic about Jaylen, because he's going to a theoretical ideal situation for him to develop - unless he reacts like Darko Millicic did on the Pistons.  There's no perfect place for each prospect.  Some develop quickly with minutes on a crappy team.  Some need to learn how to win while surrounded by winners.   Maybe Bennett would have succeeded if he was coming into this Boston environment instead of the disaster Mike Brown coached Cavs teams he ended up on.  Maybe Jaylen would be best off going to a garbage team that can play him 35+ minutes immediately.   But my guesstimation is that Jaylen is going into a pretty ideal situation where he can learn from some quality people.   

[Celtics18]

I completely agree that Jaylen Brown is entering the NBA in a great position to succeed.  Coach Stevens, in his short time in the league, has done a nice job of getting the most out of players.  This group of guys has a gritty, hard working collective mentality.

The team is expected to win games and be among the top teams in the East.  Jaylen, however, seems likely to get the opportunity to earn some significant minutes right off the bat as a back up wing.

Exciting times. 

[crimson_stallion]

I essentially agree with every statement made by those unbiased fans on nbadraft.net.   Brown is a comparable-level prospect to Anthony Bennett when Bennett came out.

Except he's not...

Maybe you can argue that they have similar floors because both guy's games are similarly raw and unrefined. However, Brown's celing is undeniably far, far higher.

As I've mentioned before, Jaylen Brown is much closer as a prospect to Andrew Wiggins then he is to Anthony Bennett.  They play the same position, they have similar physical attributes (Wiggins a bit more athletic, Brown a lot stronger, otherwise very similar), both have similar strengths (ability to get to the basket, ability to play above the rim), similar weaknesses (jump shot, ball handling, feel for the game) and both have were looked at as guys with very high defensive upside.   

In fact the only thing dramatically different between Wiggins and Brown is personality - Wiggins was criticized by flagged by many for his perceived lack of competitiveness, lack of motor, and general lackadaisical demeanor on the court. Many guys were comparing him to Jeff Green - recognizing that elite physical talent, but questioning whether he had the character to realise his potential.

With Brown on the other hand nobody questions that.  The motor is there, the drive is there, the desire to win (and be great) is there.  With his physical talent and mental makeup, the bar is high - whether he reaches it is another matter altogether.

[LarBrd33]

I essentially agree with every statement made by those unbiased fans on nbadraft.net.   Brown is a comparable-level prospect to Anthony Bennett when Bennett came out.

Except he's not...

Maybe you can argue that they have similar floors because both guy's games are similarly raw and unrefined. However, Brown's celing is undeniably far, far higher.

Now or when Bennett was drafted ?  Now, I'd say it's undeniably higher.  When Bennett was drafted - it's completely arbitrary to say one had a higher ceiling than the other.  The belief that Bennett could develop into a star was comparable with the belief brown can develop into a star.  Neither was likely to develop into a star.  Bennett wouldn't have been taken 1st if they didn't think it was possible he'd be special.

Wiggins was and remains seen as a far superior prospect than Jaylen despite some folks here misunderstanding the context for their college stats.  Wiggins was believed to be a different class of prospect.  I hope Jaylen proves everyone wrong though.  I want you to be right.

[Csfan1984]

That's an absolute joke LarBrd33. They are not comparable Period. One guy was consider the best prospect in the nation at one point. Bennet was never that. Don't waste anyone's reading time.

Its remarkable how quick you are to side with things that look negatively or dismiss a positive on a C's young player. It's like your M.O. to give more cred to non-C's. We all remember you wanted Bennet before his Raptors last bust but then dare use him as an example to dismiss this report? And Talk about cherry picking articles. This was just another example as why people say, "you like the grass on the other side of the fence". Because in this case you quickly sided to dismiss the work JB is doing. But another thread you pump up Embid reports as gospel.

You want to have it both ways but things don't work like that. You then try your best to dig yourself out fetching pieces of articles or stats that are quickly rebutted due to being so weak. Sometimes you just need to step back.

[Ilikesports17]

I essentially agree with every statement made by those unbiased fans on nbadraft.net.   Brown is a comparable-level prospect to Anthony Bennett when Bennett came out.

Except he's not...

Maybe you can argue that they have similar floors because both guy's games are similarly raw and unrefined. However, Brown's celing is undeniably far, far higher.

Now or when Bennett was drafted ?  Now, I'd say it's undeniably higher.  When Bennett was drafted - it's completely arbitrary to say one had a higher ceiling than the other.  The belief that Bennett could develop into a star was comparable with the belief brown can develop into a star.  Neither was likely to develop into a star.  Bennett wouldn't have been taken 1st if they didn't think it was possible he'd be special.

Wiggins was and remains seen as a far superior prospect than Jaylen despite some folks here misunderstanding the context for their college stats.  Wiggins was believed to be a different class of prospect.  I hope Jaylen proves everyone wrong though.  I want you to be right.

This argument is being taken out of context. Browns trainer said good things about him. Bennetts did as well. Therefore, trainers words dont really matter.

/thread.

To add, that Bennett and Brown were the same level prospect coming out of college is wholly irrelevant now.

Bennett was a massive bust. Tier 3 prospect or Tier 1 prospect he busted. Id imagine a decade and a half ago Milicic and Kwame brown would have been tier 1 or 2 picks and they too busted terrifically.

As with Anthony Bennett they are the exception, not the rule.

As you state, a lot goes into a guy being a bust. Brown seems to have a great head on his shoulders and seems to have landed in a terrific place.

I just dont get the need to bring up Anthony Bennett. Its really quite irrelevant to this situation other than to remind us that players can bust, and trainers words dont matter.

Outside that the comp is dumb. Lets move on.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I read it again but I still don't see the good things or compliments he made about Brown. All I see him sayings is what they work on and what he thinks Brown may be able to do AFTER his training, eventually. The only person he said good things about is Butler but that's after being trained by him.   

[LarBrd33]

I read it again but I still don't see the good things or compliments he made about Brown. All I see him sayings is what they work on and what he thinks Brown may be able to do AFTER his training, eventually. The only person he said good things about is Butler but that's after being trained by him.

yeah that's exactly right.  So while I agree trainers might exaggerate and overly praise their clients, jaylens trainer didn't have anything overly positive to say.  Which we can only really take to mean jaylen's trainer thinks he sucks so bad he can't even offer fake praise.   

Kidding

[LarBrd33]

That's an absolute joke LarBrd33. They are not comparable Period. One guy was consider the best prospect in the nation at one point. Bennet was never that. Don't waste anyone's reading time.

"Considered the best prospect in the nation" vs "literally being taken 1st in the amateur draft"... toss-up. 

To clarify, I'm not saying they are similar players.  I'm saying they are similar level prospects who were drafted high (possibly too high) for similar reasons (perceived ceiling) in spite of their lack of NBA-ready talent.  Clearly, after three years of failing, Bennett is not seen as anywhere near the level of prospect he was in 2013.  But if we're comparing Jaylen vs Bennett when both were entering the league, it's a coin flip which one the Cavs take 1st.