Riley continues to sound like a jilted lover

[Moranis]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17453899/pat-riley-miami-heat-says-shaquille-oneal-was-bigger-get-lebron-james

[Roy H.]

I read that, and you're right. Shaq was more significant than four Finals in four years?

[Snakehead]

Riley is being such a joke about this and I think damaging his reputation and ability to be such a magnet for free agents.  Why keep bad mouthing LeBron?

No doubt Shaq was a fantastic get for them but just shut your mouth about LeBron.  He is going out of his way to bring it up.

[GratefulCs]

Shaq might be a bigger pick up in the sense that with him, they one their first ring. That's huge


But lebron was obviously a better pick up



Come on pat

[dannyboy35]

I love hearing him unhappy.

[Granath]

I think Riley is right.

What he's saying is that if they didn't get Shaq then quite possibly they don't get the Big Three. The Heat had never even been to the finals prior to Shaq. They had been to the ECF only once and otherwise were the type of team that made the playoffs and lost in the first round. They had 36, 25 and 42 wins the prior 3 seasons. Wade wasn't a proven winner or the superstar he was after the Finals. He was just another guy who could score a lot.

Winning that finals cemented Wade as a true Superstar which then made teaming up with him more attractive. It put the Miami Heat and South Beach out there as destination. While they had an incredibly bad season in 2007 (Wade, Marion and Shaq were all hurt), that didn't taint the lure of the Heat all that much.

So Riley is probably right. Getting Shaq started the ball rolling and thus may have been a greater "get" than even Lebron. 

[Ogaju]

well.... he makes a valid point. Shaq was a winner when he moved to Miami, and at that time Miami as a franchise did  not have a championship, therefore getting Shaq was a big deal considering all the factors. James on the other hand came via free agency and virtually went there to have a super team. That team as they said planned to win not one, not two, not three...etc. So Riley probably didn't have to sell much to get James to team up with Wade and Bosh. Shaq on the other hand had to be sold on going to Miami to Wade's team?

While you may disagree with Riley and call it sour grapes, I think there is enough to go to the jury on this one, and if I had a vote I would vote for the opinion of the guy who was actually there when the moves were made... that would be Riley.

[Donoghus]

I think Riley is right.

What he's saying is that if they didn't get Shaq then quite possibly they don't get the Big Three. The Heat had never even been to the finals prior to Shaq. They had been to the ECF only once and otherwise were the type of team that made the playoffs and lost in the first round. They had 36, 25 and 42 wins the prior 3 seasons. Wade wasn't a proven winner or the superstar he was after the Finals. He was just another guy who could score a lot.

Winning that finals cemented Wade as a true Superstar which then made teaming up with him more attractive. It put the Miami Heat and South Beach out there as destination. While they had an incredibly bad season in 2007 (Wade, Marion and Shaq were all hurt), that didn't taint the lure of the Heat all that much.

So Riley is probably right. Getting Shaq started the ball rolling and thus may have been a greater "get" than even Lebron.

I think this is a pretty valid argument. 

I hate Riley but he actually makes a pretty compelling point here.

[Snakehead]

I see some of that logic but giving Shaq credit for Wade becoming a superstar for many years when he was clearly going to do that is a bit much to me.  Not as if Shaq made Wade.  Wade was the key to the team winning that title. And I don't think anything about the past counted that much into LeBron or Bosh's decision.  Being great friends with Wade probably did, as well as Miami, all being able to team up, and Riley himself.  It's not like Riley had never won a title before he was in Miami.

And I am a big Shaq guy.

LeBron won two titles and went to the Finals 4 times.  He won two MVP awards and two Finals MVP awards. It is LeBron.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Shaq was better than LeBron....Shaq only needed one other guy to win Rings---where LeBron has to have several players. Shaq could win a title with one Star and 3 WNBA players.

[Moranis]

I think Riley is right.

What he's saying is that if they didn't get Shaq then quite possibly they don't get the Big Three. The Heat had never even been to the finals prior to Shaq. They had been to the ECF only once and otherwise were the type of team that made the playoffs and lost in the first round. They had 36, 25 and 42 wins the prior 3 seasons. Wade wasn't a proven winner or the superstar he was after the Finals. He was just another guy who could score a lot.

Winning that finals cemented Wade as a true Superstar which then made teaming up with him more attractive. It put the Miami Heat and South Beach out there as destination. While they had an incredibly bad season in 2007 (Wade, Marion and Shaq were all hurt), that didn't taint the lure of the Heat all that much.

So Riley is probably right. Getting Shaq started the ball rolling and thus may have been a greater "get" than even Lebron.

Except the year before they acquired Shaq they were in the ECF Semi-Finals in Wade's rookie year.  They had a 22 year old Wade, 23 year old Butler, 24 year old Odom, 23 year old Haslem, and mixed in the cagey veterans Eddie Jones, Brian Grant, and Rafer Alston.  Now that team wasn't immediately going to turn into a contender like bringing in Shaq did, but that team was set up to be pretty darn good for a very long time. 

Obviously acquiring Shaq for Butler, Odom, Grant, a 1st, and a 2nd was a great trade for Miami and they would do that every single time, but they gave up a lot for a very short window (Shaq was basically done after just 2 years, but they made the Finals and then won the Finals).  You never know what might have been had they kept the Odom/Butler/Wade/Haslem group together or what that would have meant for James/Bosh going to Miami.

This is just Riley being butt hurt by Lebron leaving. 

[timpiker]

I hate Pat Riley.

[Fafnir]

I think Riley is right.

What he's saying is that if they didn't get Shaq then quite possibly they don't get the Big Three. The Heat had never even been to the finals prior to Shaq. They had been to the ECF only once and otherwise were the type of team that made the playoffs and lost in the first round. They had 36, 25 and 42 wins the prior 3 seasons. Wade wasn't a proven winner or the superstar he was after the Finals. He was just another guy who could score a lot.

Winning that finals cemented Wade as a true Superstar which then made teaming up with him more attractive. It put the Miami Heat and South Beach out there as destination. While they had an incredibly bad season in 2007 (Wade, Marion and Shaq were all hurt), that didn't taint the lure of the Heat all that much.

So Riley is probably right. Getting Shaq started the ball rolling and thus may have been a greater "get" than even Lebron.

I think this is a pretty valid argument. 

I hate Riley but he actually makes a pretty compelling point here.

Yeah LBJ is a bigger get, but does LBJ consider Miami if they don't have Shaq and Wade going to win a title?

Maybe he does because of how close LeBron and Wade were already, but I can see that line of thinking. Similar to how Isiah Thomas led to getting Al Horford so I can see a CBlog poster thinking he's a bigger get than him as a FA.

[Roy H.]

I love Shaq, but he wasn't even the Heat's second leading scorer in the A Finals that year. That was old friend Antoine Walker.

I don't think that Miami's title with Shaq had anything to do with Lebron's decision. Wade has always been a Superfriend, and Lebron was looking for great teammates. Miami gave him the best shot at that. If anything, Wade having already won a title and being the alpha dog in Miami made things more complicated.

[Csfan1984]

Shaq was their KG so understand he changed the perception of the team more so than LeBron.