How much better are the Celts with the addition of Horford, Green, Brown?

[ThePaintedArea]

He's what I'll say... there was nothing surprising about Jaylen's Summer league performance.  He showed the signs we expected him to show.  He struggled with what we expected him to struggle with.   All the things that scouts pointed out about him prior to the draft were on display. 

Can't tell which scouts you're referring to. But his left hand, for instance, was much better than advertised ( for example by Schmitz, who also questioned his feel for the game; it turns out that Brown is instinctive and has developed a big repertoire of moves). Pelton had him ranked low before the draft, and completely turned around after Summer League.

 

The player we saw in Summer League isn't ready for the NBA yet.

We?

Your opinion is an outlier.

[LarBrd33]

He's what I'll say... there was nothing surprising about Jaylen's Summer league performance.  He showed the signs we expected him to show.  He struggled with what we expected him to struggle with.   All the things that scouts pointed out about him prior to the draft were on display. 

Can't tell which scouts you're referring to. But his left hand, for instance, was much better than advertised ( for example by Schmitz, who also questioned his feel for the game; it turns out that Brown is instinctive and has developed a big repertoire of moves). Pelton had him ranked low before the draft, and completely turned around after Summer League.

 

The player we saw in Summer League isn't ready for the NBA yet.

We?

Your opinion is an outlier.

It's not really an "opinion" to say the guy struggled offensively.  He struggled offensively.  He shot 33% and 22% from three.  That's bad.   If he struggled offensively against undrafted amateurs, it's fair to expect him to struggle against NBA players.   It's hard to tell what kind of defensive impact he'll make, but he doesn't really look ready for the NBA yet.   I hope he makes dramatic improvements before the season starts.  The good news is he shows potential, so there's plenty of reason to be optimistic he'll develop into a real player eventually.  I hope we keep him, because I want to watch him improve.

[Celtics4ever]

He struggled offensively.  He shot 33% and 22% from three.  That's bad.

Agree.   People do not often worry about low FG%, we still lack solid shooters at times.  Guys actually thought Sullinger could shoot for a while, as well.   Shooting is an issue for Brown.

I think he will work hard to improve it though.   Everything I have seen and read about him says he is a hard worker.  You can coast on your talent some but in the NBA you have to have more.

[CoachBo]

Horford will help our terrible shooting woes, and his leadership will have value as well. I expect his presence to help space the floor, as well.

I don't expect Brown or Green to have much, if any, positive impact on the season.

[ThePaintedArea]

He's what I'll say... there was nothing surprising about Jaylen's Summer league performance.  He showed the signs we expected him to show.  He struggled with what we expected him to struggle with.   All the things that scouts pointed out about him prior to the draft were on display. 

Can't tell which scouts you're referring to. But his left hand, for instance, was much better than advertised ( for example by Schmitz, who also questioned his feel for the game; it turns out that Brown is instinctive and has developed a big repertoire of moves). Pelton had him ranked low before the draft, and completely turned around after Summer League.

 

The player we saw in Summer League isn't ready for the NBA yet.

We?

Your opinion is an outlier.

It's not really an "opinion" to say the guy struggled offensively.  He struggled offensively.

You changed the terms here. To remind you, what you said originally was: "The player we saw in Summer League isn't ready for the NBA yet." That's the opinion you're an outlier on.

But it's hard to go along with your second... assertion... as well. What I saw in summer league was a player who could get the ball wherever he wanted on the floor, created a lot of shots for himself and others, had a wide repertoire of shots, got into the lane at will and drew fouls at an extraordinary rate.

He shot 33% and 22% from three.  That's bad. 

Like Stevens and Ainge, I'm unconcerned. The shot mechanics are excellent; his stroke is smooth and precise.  He needs reps, and he'll get plenty in the next nine months or so.

 I do agree that field goal percentages are important; but they are not "offense", which is a much bigger discussion.

If he struggled offensively against undrafted amateurs, it's fair to expect him to struggle against NBA players.

I think you misspoke here. Summer league is a league for basketball professionals. Not amateurs.

 

It's hard to tell what kind of defensive impact he'll make, but he doesn't really look ready for the NBA yet.

Great lateral movement, great hands, great instincts, quick off his feet, uses his ample length, willing to mix it up and get physical.  He covers a lot of ground, closes out quick, gets a healthy amount of steals.  He's got "stopper" written all over him.

 

I hope he makes dramatic improvements before the season starts.  The good news is he shows potential, so there's plenty of reason to be optimistic he'll develop into a real player eventually.  I hope we keep him, because I want to watch him improve.

I'm with you on this. The kid has a chance to be special.

 I can't blame anyone too much for hedging about this guy. Irrational overestimation of a player is a lot more common than irrational underestimation, or even rational underestimation; it is simply smarter to bet against a player, any player, and the learning curve is steep for any rookie.

[Evantime34]

Some thoughts on the loss of Turner based on his on/off numbers

The Celtics were 4.9 points per 100 possessions better when he was on the bench. Their defense was 2.2 better when he was on the court.

When Turner was on the bench the team created more assists and turned the ball over less. The Celtics shot a higher percentage when he was on the bench (both in terms of TS% and eFG%).

The C's rebounded better on offense and defense when he was in the game.

According to these numbers where the C's will miss Turner the most will be on defense and on the glass.

Watching the games last year I thought Turner's offensive contributions were overstated. Sure he did a lot of our bench scoring, but he also dominated the ball, causing the ball movement to die.

I'm excited to see Smart and Rozier emerge out from under the shadow that Turner cast when dominating the ball in the second unit. I believe that Smart/Rozier can replace the defense/rebounding that we lost from Turner and that in the end our bench will be a net upgrade.

[ThaPreacher]

Horford will help our terrible shooting woes, and his leadership will have value as well. I expect his presence to help space the floor, as well.

I don't expect Brown or Green to have much, if any, positive impact on the season.

Then its safe to say, if Green goes for his career 10 ppg, .421 FG %, .361 3 Pt FG % in 20.3 MPG
off the bench while playing solid defense, he will surpass your expectations.  Good.

And if Jaylen Brown gives valuable minutes off the bench, where he can slash and draw fouls while playing solid defense, he too will surpass.

Because Evan Turner ( whose value I respect a great deal) in his 16.7  million dollar  a year deal, did not have the athleticism of either Brown or Green.

Evan Turner career was  10.7 ppg  .432 FG %   .305 3PT FG %  in 28 MPG


Impact can sometimes be measured  in a variety of ways.  And I wouldn't be surprised to see
Green playing on the same unit as Brown at times with Terry Rozier.  Their impact might be the type of offensive and defensive schemes Brad Stevens can run with athletes that can slash and play above the rim, while improving an already fast paced team.


I'm excited to see Brad "the surgeon" Stevens operate using his new tools.

[ThePaintedArea]

Horford will help our terrible shooting woes, and his leadership will have value as well. I expect his presence to help space the floor, as well.

I don't expect Brown or Green to have much, if any, positive impact on the season.

Then its safe to say, if Green goes for his career 10 ppg, .421 FG %, .361 3 Pt FG % in 20.3 MPG
off the bench while playing solid defense

Not 20 minutes.  Low rotation minutes, I guess, like 12.  But they got him only for a year (not incidentally, at a bargain basement rate!): he's a backstop for the rookie development of Jaylen Brown, so his probable destiny, and what the team is expecting, is that he moves from rotation to the bench, and when that happens depends on how quickly Brown moves to rotation status.

I question the "solid defense" claim, but his Miami season was encouraging; and anyway everything over replacement value from him on D is welcome.

[cltc5]

Easily two more wins