Author Topic: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year  (Read 11901 times)

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Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2016, 10:54:04 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Not interested in Hayward.
A team with IT, Hayward and Horford is a pretender in a league of GSW's, LA Clippers and Cleveland Cavs.

Just stay patient and wait for a top 10-15 player to become available.
I would rather wait 5 years and let Brown, Smart and other picks to develop than give Hayward 28 million a year.
We've worked hard and been so patient with this caproom and we can't squander it on 3rd/4th bananas like Hayward. AND we already have Crowder who was playing arguably just as well as Hayward from a two way player perspective..before his inury.

Wait for a true top 10 franchise guy to be let loose, and then get another one and hopefully draft one.


It's possible that no top 10-15 players will come the Celts way in the near future.  Perhaps the Celts could sign a guy like Hayward, win 50+ games for a few years, and then turn the team over to the likes of Smart, Brown, and whoever the Celts get in the next two drafts once Horford, IT, and Hayward are in decline.

In 4-5 years, those young guys still won't have really hit their prime.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2016, 12:03:53 PM »

Offline greece66

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Not interested in Hayward.
A team with IT, Hayward and Horford is a pretender in a league of GSW's, LA Clippers and Cleveland Cavs.

Just stay patient and wait for a top 10-15 player to become available.
I would rather wait 5 years and let Brown, Smart and other picks to develop than give Hayward 28 million a year.
We've worked hard and been so patient with this caproom and we can't squander it on 3rd/4th bananas like Hayward. AND we already have Crowder who was playing arguably just as well as Hayward from a two way player perspective..before his inury.

Wait for a true top 10 franchise guy to be let loose, and then get another one and hopefully draft one.


It's possible that no top 10-15 players will come the Celts way in the near future.  Perhaps the Celts could sign a guy like Hayward, win 50+ games for a few years, and then turn the team over to the likes of Smart, Brown, and whoever the Celts get in the next two drafts once Horford, IT, and Hayward are in decline.

In 4-5 years, those young guys still won't have really hit their prime.
^this

and in any case, by signing Hayward or another player outside the top-10, it's not like we are signing an agreement we'll never trade for a top player...just give it some time.

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2016, 12:04:37 PM »

Offline greece66

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(I start feeling I comment too often on this thread. Prolly means I rly want Hayward to the C's  ;D)

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2016, 01:29:55 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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I definitely would NOT be  up for maxing out Hayward on this team. 

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2016, 02:27:45 PM »

Offline bopna

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Pass

He is not what this team needs


Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2016, 11:20:09 PM »

Offline chambers

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Not interested in Hayward.
A team with IT, Hayward and Horford is a pretender in a league of GSW's, LA Clippers and Cleveland Cavs.

Just stay patient and wait for a top 10-15 player to become available.
I would rather wait 5 years and let Brown, Smart and other picks to develop than give Hayward 28 million a year.
We've worked hard and been so patient with this caproom and we can't squander it on 3rd/4th bananas like Hayward. AND we already have Crowder who was playing arguably just as well as Hayward from a two way player perspective..before his inury.

Wait for a true top 10 franchise guy to be let loose, and then get another one and hopefully draft one.


It's possible that no top 10-15 players will come the Celts way in the near future.  Perhaps the Celts could sign a guy like Hayward, win 50+ games for a few years, and then turn the team over to the likes of Smart, Brown, and whoever the Celts get in the next two drafts once Horford, IT, and Hayward are in decline.

In 4-5 years, those young guys still won't have really hit their prime.
^this

and in any case, by signing Hayward or another player outside the top-10, it's not like we are signing an agreement we'll never trade for a top player...just give it some time.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how many teams will want to trade for Gordon Hayward at 28 million. I just think he's going to be way overpaid when he's really not that much better than Jae Crowder. Better scorer, worse defender, slightly more versatillity on offense but Jae's defensive versatility is potentially more valuable.

I would rather give Jaylen Brown the minutes and see what happens than sign Hayward and then let Brown get his scraps minutes.

Now if it were Jimmy Butler we were talking about, that's a true top 10/15 NBA player on both ends. So I'd rather we have the flexibility to trade for real game changers like Butler, Cousins etc...

I get that we could use Hayward as a trade chip, I just don't think he's a great trade chip at 28 million, and he's taking time from Crowder and Brown.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2016, 11:28:32 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Gordy Hayward is a lot better than Jae Crowder.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2016, 12:43:21 AM »

Offline chambers

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Gordy Hayward is a lot better than Jae Crowder.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2016, 01:55:06 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Fun tidpit, Brown, Crowder, and Hayward can all be on the floor at the same time and be effective while doing so.

Thought I'd mention that.

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2016, 02:50:35 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Back to back blocks against the Celtics, one against Bradley. And his #2 play at the end of the video looks like he's jumping off a Trampoline.

 He also gets a chase down block vs Lebron.

 https://youtu.be/CHIWcFjywZY

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2016, 03:30:52 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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Gordy Hayward is a lot better than Jae Crowder.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Huh? Hayward is clearly better than Jae. Take the green glasses off. Jae is a great player, and his contract is fantastic, but Gordon is such a better player than Jae
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2016, 04:54:14 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Not interested in Hayward.
A team with IT, Hayward and Horford is a pretender in a league of GSW's, LA Clippers and Cleveland Cavs.

Just stay patient and wait for a top 10-15 player to become available.
I would rather wait 5 years and let Brown, Smart and other picks to develop than give Hayward 28 million a year.
We've worked hard and been so patient with this caproom and we can't squander it on 3rd/4th bananas like Hayward. AND we already have Crowder who was playing arguably just as well as Hayward from a two way player perspective..before his inury.

Wait for a true top 10 franchise guy to be let loose, and then get another one and hopefully draft one.


It's possible that no top 10-15 players will come the Celts way in the near future.  Perhaps the Celts could sign a guy like Hayward, win 50+ games for a few years, and then turn the team over to the likes of Smart, Brown, and whoever the Celts get in the next two drafts once Horford, IT, and Hayward are in decline.

In 4-5 years, those young guys still won't have really hit their prime.
^this

and in any case, by signing Hayward or another player outside the top-10, it's not like we are signing an agreement we'll never trade for a top player...just give it some time.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how many teams will want to trade for Gordon Hayward at 28 million. I just think he's going to be way overpaid when he's really not that much better than Jae Crowder. Better scorer, worse defender, slightly more versatillity on offense but Jae's defensive versatility is potentially more valuable.

I would rather give Jaylen Brown the minutes and see what happens than sign Hayward and then let Brown get his scraps minutes.

Now if it were Jimmy Butler we were talking about, that's a true top 10/15 NBA player on both ends. So I'd rather we have the flexibility to trade for real game changers like Butler, Cousins etc...

I get that we could use Hayward as a trade chip, I just don't think he's a great trade chip at 28 million, and he's taking time from Crowder and Brown.

It is not impossible to argue that Gordon Hayward is better offensively than Butler.  Such a small portion of Hayward's shots are assisted -- just over 30% the last two years.  That's not due to Hayward's shot selection.  That's due to how the Jazz run their offense.  He rarely is on the court with players who can get him good looks -- he has to do that for his teammates instead, despite not being the PG.  It'll be more of the same with George Hill as the PG this year, who plays off the ball as much as he plays on it.

Of course, like most players he shoots better off the catch-and-shoot.  Last year he had a .527 eFG in such situations (Butler merely had a .443 eFG).  Hayward would get a lot better looks on the Celtics, and at the same time create better looks for everyone else.  He's exactly what this team was missing in the playoffs last year when Atlanta decided to swarm IT.

Additionally, did you know that players shot 2 percentage points better than their average last year when being defended by Butler, compared with only 1.7 percentage points better when being defended by Hayward?  I didn't until just now when I looked it up.  I don't know if that's the best defensive stat out there, but I do know that players shot 2.3 percentage points worse when being defended by Bradley, so there seems to be something to it.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 08:06:38 AM by saltlover »

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2016, 08:33:47 AM »

Offline chambers

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Gordy Hayward is a lot better than Jae Crowder.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Huh? Hayward is clearly better than Jae. Take the green glasses off. Jae is a great player, and his contract is fantastic, but Gordon is such a better player than Jae

I never said he wasn't better than Jae, I said that he's not that much better than Jae when you compare their impact on both ends of the floor. Hayward is the better scorer, but Jae is the better defender. Jae at $7 million a year vs Hayward at $28 million a year is an easy choice for me. But that's just me.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2016, 08:37:40 AM »

Offline chambers

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Not interested in Hayward.
A team with IT, Hayward and Horford is a pretender in a league of GSW's, LA Clippers and Cleveland Cavs.

Just stay patient and wait for a top 10-15 player to become available.
I would rather wait 5 years and let Brown, Smart and other picks to develop than give Hayward 28 million a year.
We've worked hard and been so patient with this caproom and we can't squander it on 3rd/4th bananas like Hayward. AND we already have Crowder who was playing arguably just as well as Hayward from a two way player perspective..before his inury.

Wait for a true top 10 franchise guy to be let loose, and then get another one and hopefully draft one.


It's possible that no top 10-15 players will come the Celts way in the near future.  Perhaps the Celts could sign a guy like Hayward, win 50+ games for a few years, and then turn the team over to the likes of Smart, Brown, and whoever the Celts get in the next two drafts once Horford, IT, and Hayward are in decline.

In 4-5 years, those young guys still won't have really hit their prime.
^this

and in any case, by signing Hayward or another player outside the top-10, it's not like we are signing an agreement we'll never trade for a top player...just give it some time.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how many teams will want to trade for Gordon Hayward at 28 million. I just think he's going to be way overpaid when he's really not that much better than Jae Crowder. Better scorer, worse defender, slightly more versatillity on offense but Jae's defensive versatility is potentially more valuable.

I would rather give Jaylen Brown the minutes and see what happens than sign Hayward and then let Brown get his scraps minutes.

Now if it were Jimmy Butler we were talking about, that's a true top 10/15 NBA player on both ends. So I'd rather we have the flexibility to trade for real game changers like Butler, Cousins etc...

I get that we could use Hayward as a trade chip, I just don't think he's a great trade chip at 28 million, and he's taking time from Crowder and Brown.

It is not impossible to argue that Gordon Hayward is better offensively than Butler.  Such a small portion of Hayward's shots are assisted -- just over 30% the last two years.  That's not due to Hayward's shot selection.  That's due to how the Jazz run their offense.  He rarely is on the court with players who can get him good looks -- he has to do that for his teammates instead, despite not being the PG.  It'll be more of the same with George Hill as the PG this year, who plays off the ball as much as he plays on it.

Of course, like most players he shoots better off the catch-and-shoot.  Last year he had a .527 eFG in such situations (Butler merely had a .443 eFG).  Hayward would get a lot better looks on the Celtics, and at the same time create better looks for everyone else.  He's exactly what this team was missing in the playoffs last year when Atlanta decided to swarm IT.

Additionally, did you know that players shot 2 percentage points better than their average last year when being defended by Butler, compared with only 1.7 percentage points better when being defended by Hayward?  I didn't until just now when I looked it up.  I don't know if that's the best defensive stat out there, but I do know that players shot 2.3 percentage points worse when being defended by Bradley, so there seems to be something to it.

I think Butler's defense speaks for itself, and Hayward having Gobert and Favors behind him has probably got something to do with taking tougher shots when Hayward is guarding someone.

But yeah, even if Hayward is slightly better offensively than Butler (Which I don't think he is- he's a better catch and shoot player but Butler is the better driver).

I think Butler is clearly the better overall player from a two way perspective.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: What's the Max we could pay G Hayward next year
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2016, 09:03:39 AM »

Offline greece66

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@chambers I always enjoy what you write

I have to say I disagree here tho

These two are p close in terms of value as players, but IMO Hayward's ballhandling/playmaking skills make him a preferable choice for the C's

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=haywago01&p2=butleji01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Most important of all Hayward is six months younger (jk)