Celtics (0-0) vs Bulls (0-0) Vegas SL Game 1 7/9/16

[Rondo9]

I dunno what he will become one day, but right now Jaylen Brown looks bad.

He can't finish inside if there's anybody around.  He has no plan for his drives except get to the rim and draw contact.  Not a creative dribbler. Doesn't look to have good court vision yet.

Summer League.

[Ed Hollison]

I dunno what he will become one day, but right now Jaylen Brown looks bad.

He can't finish inside if there's anybody around.  He has no plan for his drives except get to the rim and draw contact.  Not a creative dribbler. Doesn't look to have good court vision yet.

Summer League.

How about "It's summer league and the kid's 19"?

[alldaboston]

Very disappointing overall from Brown. However, still some positives. First, he looked a bit hobbled so you might be able to cut him a bit of a break(only a tiny one, youre gonna have to play through knocks in the NBA). His shot looks nice in catch and shoot situations, he needs to figure out how to keep his form and locate the basket when he shoots off the dribble and when curling of screens etc. his burst is just as advertised and hes actually quicker on his feet and most importantly his handle seems much better than I expected. This combination suggests to me that he will be able to get to the rim at will in the NBA.

He needs to learn much better defensive fundamentals. With his tools he should be a defensive stopper, not just OK. Then the big one. He needs to do a better job at the rim/in the pain. He blows by his defender with ease and seems to always go right to the rim with no plan. It might be that the game is too quick for him. If the game slows down for him, he will finish much better and be able to avoid charges and create easy baskets by dishing the ball in the paint.

Still optimistic about the kid. The brightside is that 2 of his weaknesses (ballhandling and shooting) seem to be a bit overblown while his strengths (really just athleticism) seems to be legitimate.

Listen, in fairness to the kid, I thought that he looked slightly slower out there, although maybe that's just me (feel free to give your views on this, btw ).  Is it the knee?  Probably, but let's see if he plays tomorrow.  If he doesn't, well, like you said, it doesn't completely excuse his performance, but I'd cut him some slack.

Most of the night he looked a bit slow, but he had those moments where I thought he showed some burst and just overall I think I've seen enough to believe that the burst is legit.

He's gonna be frustrating because he has the same issues as Smart in that he struggles to finish and he isn't a great shooter, but he seems to be more intelligent about shot selection and his burst I think will let him get way more easy Latinos and dunks than Smart has.

Dang, Jaylen about to get those Latina chicks!

[A Future of Stevens]

2 notes before I bid you farewell,

1.) Brown was most obviously hurt. It was the single most obvious fact of the night. Even the commentators made note of it.

2) When danny is burning through his 10 billion picks, just pick one larger than average body who can rebound. This is freaking summer league, and our "bigs" are getting out muscled and out bodied by portis (granted, kind of expected given his draft pedigree) and cooley (who is cooley?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!.) Not to mention we got worked over by Wood against Philly. Come on Danny, just for me pick a large guy. Lets not settle for 6'8 centers and powerforwards who can " move their feet well."

zizac says hi.

Read up above. Basically I am coming at this from a summer league perspective (idiotic I know.) So while Zizic would probably meet that specific need, he won't be available until NEXT summer league.
 to
'But Danny's proliferation of undersized PFs and Cs with even late 2nds has really bit us a bit. Although I really like Bentil, so its all over the place.

It is more about putting our other players in a meaningless summer league game in a position to succeed. We are just basically ignoring a major spot in our rotation so that we can stuff the deck with "maybes" without any regard to how those pieces fit together. Maybe a big guy who can get stops would increase the amount of fast break opportunities for our multiple open court players. Just an example.

This is a fair point. There are plenty of roster spot given tha they brought in Thornton (again), Walden, Pinkston all of whom will not make the team. For the sake of the development of those who are more likely to be on the roster, it would have been nice to bring in bonafide 7-footer so guys can play in their correct positions. Last game Young was guarding the center and today it was Jaylen.

This is what it took me a few posts to get across lol. While the summer league is basically pointless, you wouldn't load up on 15 combo guards because guards need a few bigs to finish for them and move the game along. This is a similar situation, because we need that big guy. And while Zizic would be exactly what we are looking for, he can't rebound and body people from croatia. Next time they fill out the roster with losers like thornton, grab a 6'10+ guy just to body people. We shouldn't be abused by the likes of an undrafted Christina Wood or a Cooley just because we have nobody over 6'8. That hurts the showcase of our smaller players, because these nobodies have an opportunity to change the game, when normally that wouldn't exist.

[Ilikesports17]

Very disappointing overall from Brown. However, still some positives. First, he looked a bit hobbled so you might be able to cut him a bit of a break(only a tiny one, youre gonna have to play through knocks in the NBA). His shot looks nice in catch and shoot situations, he needs to figure out how to keep his form and locate the basket when he shoots off the dribble and when curling of screens etc. his burst is just as advertised and hes actually quicker on his feet and most importantly his handle seems much better than I expected. This combination suggests to me that he will be able to get to the rim at will in the NBA.

He needs to learn much better defensive fundamentals. With his tools he should be a defensive stopper, not just OK. Then the big one. He needs to do a better job at the rim/in the pain. He blows by his defender with ease and seems to always go right to the rim with no plan. It might be that the game is too quick for him. If the game slows down for him, he will finish much better and be able to avoid charges and create easy baskets by dishing the ball in the paint.

Still optimistic about the kid. The brightside is that 2 of his weaknesses (ballhandling and shooting) seem to be a bit overblown while his strengths (really just athleticism) seems to be legitimate.

Listen, in fairness to the kid, I thought that he looked slightly slower out there, although maybe that's just me (feel free to give your views on this, btw ).  Is it the knee?  Probably, but let's see if he plays tomorrow.  If he doesn't, well, like you said, it doesn't completely excuse his performance, but I'd cut him some slack.

Most of the night he looked a bit slow, but he had those moments where I thought he showed some burst and just overall I think I've seen enough to believe that the burst is legit.

He's gonna be frustrating because he has the same issues as Smart in that he struggles to finish and he isn't a great shooter, but he seems to be more intelligent about shot selection and his burst I think will let him get way more easy Latinos and dunks than Smart has.

Dang, Jaylen about to get those Latina chicks!

Marcus just can't close. I expect Jaylen to do really well with the Latinas

Lol
Fwiw I meant lay ups

[Surferdad]

2 notes before I bid you farewell,

1.) Brown was most obviously hurt. It was the single most obvious fact of the night. Even the commentators made note of it.

2) When danny is burning through his 10 billion picks, just pick one larger than average body who can rebound. This is freaking summer league, and our "bigs" are getting out muscled and out bodied by portis (granted, kind of expected given his draft pedigree) and cooley (who is cooley?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!.) Not to mention we got worked over by Wood against Philly. Come on Danny, just for me pick a large guy. Lets not settle for 6'8 centers and powerforwards who can " move their feet well."

zizac says hi.

Read up above. Basically I am coming at this from a summer league perspective (idiotic I know.) So while Zizic would probably meet that specific need, he won't be available until NEXT summer league.
 to
'But Danny's proliferation of undersized PFs and Cs with even late 2nds has really bit us a bit. Although I really like Bentil, so its all over the place.

It is more about putting our other players in a meaningless summer league game in a position to succeed. We are just basically ignoring a major spot in our rotation so that we can stuff the deck with "maybes" without any regard to how those pieces fit together. Maybe a big guy who can get stops would increase the amount of fast break opportunities for our multiple open court players. Just an example.

This is a fair point. There are plenty of roster spot given tha they brought in Thornton (again), Walden, Pinkston all of whom will not make the team. For the sake of the development of those who are more likely to be on the roster, it would have been nice to bring in bonafide 7-footer so guys can play in their correct positions. Last game Young was guarding the center and today it was Jaylen.

This is what it took me a few posts to get across lol. While the summer league is basically pointless, you wouldn't load up on 15 combo guards because guards need a few bigs to finish for them and move the game along. This is a similar situation, because we need that big guy. And while Zizic would be exactly what we are looking for, he can't rebound and body people from croatia. Next time they fill out the roster with losers like thornton, grab a 6'10+ guy just to body people. We shouldn't be abused by the likes of an undrafted Christina Wood or a Cooley just because we have nobody over 6'8. That hurts the showcase of our smaller players, because these nobodies have an opportunity to change the game, when normally that wouldn't exist.

TP. This was painfully obvious while watching the defense and the rebounding. Even so, with Absusele and Bentil available, I cannot understand why 6'6"-6'7" guys (Young and Brown) are defending the low post. I suppose it's SL for the coaching staff too. 

[Surferdad]

Very disappointing overall from Brown. However, still some positives. First, he looked a bit hobbled so you might be able to cut him a bit of a break(only a tiny one, youre gonna have to play through knocks in the NBA). His shot looks nice in catch and shoot situations, he needs to figure out how to keep his form and locate the basket when he shoots off the dribble and when curling of screens etc. his burst is just as advertised and hes actually quicker on his feet and most importantly his handle seems much better than I expected. This combination suggests to me that he will be able to get to the rim at will in the NBA.

He needs to learn much better defensive fundamentals. With his tools he should be a defensive stopper, not just OK. Then the big one. He needs to do a better job at the rim/in the pain. He blows by his defender with ease and seems to always go right to the rim with no plan. It might be that the game is too quick for him. If the game slows down for him, he will finish much better and be able to avoid charges and create easy baskets by dishing the ball in the paint.

Still optimistic about the kid. The brightside is that 2 of his weaknesses (ballhandling and shooting) seem to be a bit overblown while his strengths (really just athleticism) seems to be legitimate.

Listen, in fairness to the kid, I thought that he looked slightly slower out there, although maybe that's just me (feel free to give your views on this, btw ).  Is it the knee?  Probably, but let's see if he plays tomorrow.  If he doesn't, well, like you said, it doesn't completely excuse his performance, but I'd cut him some slack.

Most of the night he looked a bit slow, but he had those moments where I thought he showed some burst and just overall I think I've seen enough to believe that the burst is legit.

He's gonna be frustrating because he has the same issues as Smart in that he struggles to finish and he isn't a great shooter, but he seems to be more intelligent about shot selection and his burst I think will let him get way more easy Latinos and dunks than Smart has.

Dang, Jaylen about to get those Latina chicks!

Marcus just can't close. I expect Jaylen to do really well with the Latinas

Lol
Fwiw I meant lay ups

Too late, my mind had already wandered at 'easy Latinos'.

[Ilikesports17]

2 notes before I bid you farewell,

1.) Brown was most obviously hurt. It was the single most obvious fact of the night. Even the commentators made note of it.

2) When danny is burning through his 10 billion picks, just pick one larger than average body who can rebound. This is freaking summer league, and our "bigs" are getting out muscled and out bodied by portis (granted, kind of expected given his draft pedigree) and cooley (who is cooley?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!.) Not to mention we got worked over by Wood against Philly. Come on Danny, just for me pick a large guy. Lets not settle for 6'8 centers and powerforwards who can " move their feet well."

zizac says hi.

Read up above. Basically I am coming at this from a summer league perspective (idiotic I know.) So while Zizic would probably meet that specific need, he won't be available until NEXT summer league.
 to
'But Danny's proliferation of undersized PFs and Cs with even late 2nds has really bit us a bit. Although I really like Bentil, so its all over the place.

It is more about putting our other players in a meaningless summer league game in a position to succeed. We are just basically ignoring a major spot in our rotation so that we can stuff the deck with "maybes" without any regard to how those pieces fit together. Maybe a big guy who can get stops would increase the amount of fast break opportunities for our multiple open court players. Just an example.

This is a fair point. There are plenty of roster spot given tha they brought in Thornton (again), Walden, Pinkston all of whom will not make the team. For the sake of the development of those who are more likely to be on the roster, it would have been nice to bring in bonafide 7-footer so guys can play in their correct positions. Last game Young was guarding the center and today it was Jaylen.

This is what it took me a few posts to get across lol. While the summer league is basically pointless, you wouldn't load up on 15 combo guards because guards need a few bigs to finish for them and move the game along. This is a similar situation, because we need that big guy. And while Zizic would be exactly what we are looking for, he can't rebound and body people from croatia. Next time they fill out the roster with losers like thornton, grab a 6'10+ guy just to body people. We shouldn't be abused by the likes of an undrafted Christina Wood or a Cooley just because we have nobody over 6'8. That hurts the showcase of our smaller players, because these nobodies have an opportunity to change the game, when normally that wouldn't exist.

TP. This was painfully obvious while watching the defense and the rebounding. Even so, with Absusele and Bentil available, I cannot understand why 6'6"-6'7" guys (Young and Brown) are defending the low post. I suppose it's SL for the coaching staff too. 

Yeah that's a good point. I wouldn't make any picks for this purpose but instead of miller walden and whoever 63 is they coulda signed some 7 footers or some real bigs

[Beat LA]

buzz on brown seems to be accurate.  At this point in his career, he can't shoot or finish.  Here's hoping he develops it.  5 years from now he can be really good.

Not sure how say that is accurate already?

Cuz it's what we saw in College and it's what we are seeing now?  He can't shoot and he has trouble finishing.

I thought that you didn't watch college basketball .

[Ilikesports17]

buzz on brown seems to be accurate.  At this point in his career, he can't shoot or finish.  Here's hoping he develops it.  5 years from now he can be really good.

Not sure how say that is accurate already?

Cuz it's what we saw in College and it's what we are seeing now?  He can't shoot and he has trouble finishing.

I thought that you didn't watch college basketball .

His Bologna man watches.


This is a legit criticism. Brown struggled finishing his entire college career. Honestly this along with a questionable feel for the game was the most concerning weakness of Brown for me because I worry these things can't be learned.
 

[PhoSita]

I dunno what he will become one day, but right now Jaylen Brown looks bad.

He can't finish inside if there's anybody around.  He has no plan for his drives except get to the rim and draw contact.  Not a creative dribbler. Doesn't look to have good court vision yet.

Summer League.

How about "It's summer league and the kid's 19"?

There's a little bit of have it both ways with this reasoning though.

When a guy has a really good game, well, it's summer league. Anybody decent dominates it.

When a guy can't seem to get any kind of rhythm, well, it's just summer league. It doesn't mean anything.


It's true, Brown is 19 and he was drafted to be a project. But what he's done in summer league fits what I've said in the past about brown... He is a physical specimen, but he doesn't appear to have any NBA-ready skills right now. Not sure what role he plays his first couple years except maybe as a hustle guy who can dunk in the open court.

[alldaboston]

I dunno what he will become one day, but right now Jaylen Brown looks bad.

He can't finish inside if there's anybody around.  He has no plan for his drives except get to the rim and draw contact.  Not a creative dribbler. Doesn't look to have good court vision yet.

Summer League.

How about "It's summer league and the kid's 19"?

There's a little bit of have it both ways with this reasoning though.

When a guy has a really good game, well, it's summer league. Anybody decent dominates it.

When a guy can't seem to get any kind of rhythm, well, it's just summer league. It doesn't mean anything.


It's true, Brown is 19 and he was drafted to be a project. But what he's done in summer league fits what I've said in the past about brown... He is a physical specimen, but he doesn't appear to have any NBA-ready skills right now. Not sure what role he plays his first couple years except maybe as a hustle guy who can dunk in the open court.

That's why we shouldn't overreact to Terry playing well, just like how we shouldn't overreact to Jaylen playing subpar. Or Jack Cooley destroying us.

[A Future of Stevens]

I dunno what he will become one day, but right now Jaylen Brown looks bad.

He can't finish inside if there's anybody around.  He has no plan for his drives except get to the rim and draw contact.  Not a creative dribbler. Doesn't look to have good court vision yet.

Summer League.

How about "It's summer league and the kid's 19"?

There's a little bit of have it both ways with this reasoning though.

When a guy has a really good game, well, it's summer league. Anybody decent dominates it.

When a guy can't seem to get any kind of rhythm, well, it's just summer league. It doesn't mean anything.


It's true, Brown is 19 and he was drafted to be a project. But what he's done in summer league fits what I've said in the past about brown... He is a physical specimen, but he doesn't appear to have any NBA-ready skills right now. Not sure what role he plays his first couple years except maybe as a hustle guy who can dunk in the open court.

That's why we shouldn't overreact to Terry playing well, just like how we shouldn't overreact to Jaylen playing subpar. Or Jack Cooley destroying us.

How dare you. I will overreact to the destroyer of worlds if I want to. Jack Cooley was obviously one of the 4 horsemen of prophecy, so excuse me for recognizing his immense level of skill. He is both the prince that was promised, and the one who would bring balance to the force.

[NHCelticsFan]

I caught a good portion of the game on TV and though Brown didn't play very well (his knee was clearly bothering him, which he later confirmed) the one thing I saw from him that I really liked was his ability to create his own shot.  He had some nice mid range looks that he created by going between his legs on the dribble or taking little step backs.  Give him some time.  I don't think it is realistic to not expect a 19 year old rookie to have some growing pains.

Add Brown's athleticism to the above and you have the making of a potentially dangerous player.  Guys will have to respect the jump shot (should he fine tune it) and his ability to drive at the same time.  I like the pick and I'm going to keep my expectations in check for the short term.  Again, he is only 19 and shows an awful lot of promise on both ends of the floor.

Mickey, from what I saw, was disappointing.  Looked very timid out there.  Rozier is the exact opposite.  Terry looks like he is giving 110% from start to finish.  Bobby Portis could be a really nice player in this league, especially with his ability to shoot the ball starting to show.

[hwangjini_1]

buzz on brown seems to be accurate.  At this point in his career, he can't shoot or finish.  Here's hoping he develops it.  5 years from now he can be really good.

Not sure how say that is accurate already?

Cuz it's what we saw in College and it's what we are seeing now?  He can't shoot and he has trouble finishing.

I thought that you didn't watch college basketball .

On citing brown's college record,  I can see why we do so since we little else to which to refer. However, for,  perspective,  did brown's college career and games start sometime last autumn? Of 2015? It is now. July, 2016. The grand total of our data base on brown is still under one calendar year, no?

Let's do the unthinkable here at CB and actually wait for 2-3 seasons to pass before  making final judgements, please.