Author Topic: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW  (Read 2776 times)

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Offline oldtype

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So I got myself imagining for a bit how we could beat a team that would be able to contend with GSW by specifically attacking their weaknesses.

1. You start with a super-dominant bigman who can score 40 a game if you leave him alone, as this is Golden State's only clear defensive weakness. There are only three players in the NBA that count in my mind: Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, or Karl-Anthony Towns in a year or two. I suppose it's conceivable that we could trade for one of the first two, so we have our first slot held down by Cousins/Davis

2. You need to pair that big-man with a second guy who can also run good offense, preferably being capable of both scoring up close and from the perimeter. If the other big guy is not an offensive threat or can only affect the offense in one way, it's no good because Golden State can help off him for a double every time with their perfect rotations. It would also be nice if he could protect the rim off drives since ideally you want your all-NBA big not exerting himself too much on defense since he needs to be the center of your offense. We already have this in Al Horford.

3. One extra condition: both of your big guys must be at least competent switching off screens. With four players who can handle the ball at a high level (Steph, Klay, Draymond, KD), and four potential screeners, (Klay, Draymond, KD, random big), the Warriors will be able to find a Kevin Love on the floor and force him into a pick and roll, no matter who you hide him on. Thankfully both Horford and Cousins/Davis are good at this.

4. Now on the the backcourt. The first prerequisite here is that you need three elite-level perimeter defenders to put on Steph, Klay, and KD. If even one of them is loose you are doomed. Thankfully we are sort-of almost there with Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, and Jae Crowder. Avery Bradley in particular is a proven first-team-all-defense Steph Killer. You want him on the team.

The problem is that Jae Crowder may not be long enough to hang with KD. Jae can fight bigger players in the post because he's strong enough, but it's a lot harder for him when those same bigger players can just shoot over him at the three point line. I see three players with both the lengths and the quicks to defend KD from the small forward position: Paul George, Lebron James, and Kawhi Leonard. Obviously there's no way we get the other two, and even George is unlikely barring serious cap shenanigans in 2018 because we've expended our trade assets to get Cousins/Davis. A realistic alternative is getting Gordon Hayward in 2017 FA and then hope that he develops elite defense, which he's shown the ability to do from time to time.

5. Here's another problem: you need 1.5~2 actual ball handlers among your perimeter players. We know that Avery Bradley can't do this at all, so all of the pick-and-roll initiation is going to have to come from the other two. We also can't acquire any more superstars because at this point we're capped out/have no assets due to getting Cousins/Davis and George/Hayward. This is where we're going to need some internal development from Marcus Smart: we need him to develop the ability to be the primary ball handler so he can start at the point guard position.

Oh, by the way, all your perimeter players also have to shoot threes because if they don't the Warriors will just hide a post-helper on them to go double team your big in the post. Alternatively, a perimeter player who's not a three-point threat could develop an elite isolation game to get by any slower defenders hidden on them. So Marcus Smart is going to have to pick up one of those. By doing so, he's probably transformed himself into a top-30 NBA player. Let's call this improved version Final Form Marcus Smart. He is our starting PG.

So that leaves us with a starting five of:
PG Final Form Marcus Smart
SG Avery Bradley
SF Gordon Hayward who learns how to play defense (acquired in 2017 free agency)
PF Al Horford
C Demarcus Cousins/Anthony Davis (acquired via trade)

This team doesn't quite have the star power of Golden State, but it is laser-honed to attack their biggest weakness and will be immaculately coached by President Brad Stevens. It is also a team that we could potentially build within the next year or two.

But it also shows how razor-thin the margins are if we want to actually build a team to fight Golden State. That team is a freaking monster, and Danny is going to have to make an educated decision as to whether it's worth it to even try.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 03:15:32 PM by oldtype »


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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2016, 03:07:16 PM »

Offline max215

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Another TP for you, oldtype. Defensively, we might be better off with Smart-Hayward-Brown-Horford-Cousins. We'd need Hayward and Brown since Klay and Durant are both so big.
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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2016, 03:08:47 PM »

Offline oldtype

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Another TP for you, oldtype. Defensively, we might be better off with Smart-Hayward-Brown-Horford-Cousins. We'd need Hayward and Brown since Klay and Durant are both so big.

I agree that Bradley's lack of versatility (can only really guard curry) cause a lot of problems on switches, but he's just so good at defending Curry I don't think we can leave him out. There's no guarantee that even Smart could guard Curry half as well as Avery does.


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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2016, 03:10:08 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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It is a general  rule here that any post that says realistic in its subject headline is generally the opposite.

There are some ifs with your proposal but it almost makes sense and defies that rule.

Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2016, 03:13:24 PM »

Offline oldtype

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It is a general  rule here that any post that says realistic in its subject headline is generally the opposite.

There are some ifs with your proposal but it almost makes sense and defies that rule.

That's the whole point. It's not a fun thought exercise if I just go "Eric Bledsoe - Jimmy Butler - Kawhi Leonard - Blake Griffin - Anthony Davis. The end."


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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2016, 03:15:28 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Dennis Johnson
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett

Bench: Tiny, Havlicek, McHale
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2016, 03:17:11 PM »

Offline oldtype

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Dennis Johnson
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett

Bench: Tiny, Havlicek, McHale

You'd probably have to put KG on KD because I don't think Pierce or Bird have the length to handle it. That pulls him away from the rim and opens up driving lanes for Curry, and nobody on that team offers any sort of weakside help. Also, we're going to kill ourselves when Ray Allen is getting screened every freaking position.


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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2016, 03:20:35 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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I think Cousins is in the realm of possibility, but I don't see Davis going anywhere until he's at least an impending FA.

Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2016, 03:23:40 PM »

Offline oldtype

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I think Cousins is in the realm of possibility, but I don't see Davis going anywhere until he's at least an impending FA.

I agree that Davis is a long shot, but we may get to the point where every superstar on a bad situation is agitating for a trade to a good team because they want to be relevant at some point in their primes against the backdrop of this ridiculous GSW team.

Probably doesn't even matter though. I think Cousins may even have a higher ceiling assuming that he's capable of screwing his head on straight when put in a position to succeed.


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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2016, 03:30:43 PM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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How about Noel? Very good d at the 5 switches well enough.
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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2016, 03:32:44 PM »

Offline walker834

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Why would the Pelicans trade us Anthony Davis though? They have him under contract.  I think fans don't understand how difficult it is to acquire these guys.

Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2016, 03:32:48 PM »

Offline oldtype

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How about Noel? Very good d at the 5 switches well enough.

Absolutely not. Can't play offense at all: GS puts Draymond on Cousins, whatever random minimum big they sign on Noel, and whatever random minimum big just comes and doubles on Cousins whenever he is anywhere near the ball.

If you want Noel in your offense you have to play him Deandre Jordan style setting screens and catching lobs from Final Form Marcus Smart, but this makes it so you have to keep the lanes clear, which defeats the purpose of having Cousins in the first place.


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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2016, 03:33:07 PM »

Offline oldtype

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Why would the Pelicans trade us Anthony Davis though? They have him under contract.

Just assume it's Cousins then.


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Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2016, 03:33:37 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I think they'd have to get Cousins, but it would cost too much in personnel to get him.
Not much they can do now. They thought Horford would create a domino effect. He didn't.
They'll be better, but not good enough to beat the Cavs or Warriors or Spurs.

Re: Thought Exercise: a realistic Celtics team that could beat GSW
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2016, 05:58:08 PM »

Offline Celtic_Pride777

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I love where the OP is coming from...and I hope Danny is thinking along the same lines as you are.

KEEP THINKING BIG!!! DON'T GIVE UP THE DREAM