The problem isn't the Celtics. It's some of the fans.

[Celtics18]

I think there are just too many emotional over reactions from fans who had high expectations for unrealistic trades based on misinformation. If we had drafted Dunn, and the Sixers and Bulls refused to put together a good trade offer, these same fans would now be clamoring over the fact that we have too many guards and we have to trade one of Dunn/Smart and the league knows this so we're screwed.

IF the Bulls or Sixers were serious enough to get Dunn, they would have done so with the Suns or Wolves after us. They didn't manage to make a trade with 3 different teams that could have gotten them Dunn, so it is very apparent that they were not making good offers and what was reported was inaccurate.

TP  If the Sixer's offer was so good why didn't the Suns or Minneapolis take it?

Exactly. I address this question to ShAQATTACK and CoachBo and everyone who insists Ainge passed on a great deal last night.

A) Minnesota is already stuffed with bigs (one of which has HOF potential), so it makes absolutely no sense that they would trade with Philly. They also extremely loved Dunn and had a need for him, so Minny would make no sense taking that deal. It's called context.

B) The Suns obviously viewed Bender and Chriss as better, higher-ceiling prospects than Noel and Okafor, which are reasonable arguments. They also already have Chandler, who does essentially the same thing as Noel just not as athletically or good anymore due to him losing his athleticism.

So, no, just posting these two teams as evidence that it wasn't a good trade doesn't work when you take their context into consideration.

It is strong evidence, I disagree. If the Bulls offer with Butler was so good, the Wolves would have jumped at it. Having bigs has nothing to do with Butler. They would LOVE to take Butler to add to Towns and Wiggins. 

If Noel and Okafor are supposed to be so good, the Wolves would have jumped at the chance to take one of them. Dieng is no all-star. They also have a borderline all-star PG in Rubio.

As for the Suns, the majority of people here who are angry at Ainge for not trading the #3 pick are also the same people who absolutely hate Bender and don't think much of Chriss, so I as again, if the Sixers and Bulls offers were so good, why did the Suns prefer to take Bender over 'sure-fire all-stars'?

Reread the post. I said nothing about Butler. You also need to stop attributing arguments to me that I haven't made. I'm not an Okafor fan, and I'd be okay with choosing Brown over him. But Noel was my guy, because he fills an absolute need we have and is an excellent fit alongside our other defenders. He has DPOY potential, but AT NO TIME did I say he was a "sure-fire All-Star." That's a weak strawman argument.

I know it's a crazy notion to a lot of people, but "fit" and chemistry is a big concern in making basketball teams. KAT is a center, and he would not have fit with either Okafor or Noel, who would both just clog the paint and bring more defenders toward KAT. Thibs understands this, which is why he wouldn't even entertain anything like that.

As for the Suns, they just had different perspectives with us on Bender and Chriss. I was high on Chriss, and I think he was just as deserving as Brown to go to us at 3, especially with his better fit in an area of need. So they just simply valued him more than Okafor and Noel. Which isn't surprising since A) it seems that nobody wants Okafor due to being in the wrong era, and B) they already have Chandler. The contract situation matters for them, too - why trade for them when you can get at least another year of a rookie scale contract with two new guys?

So, yes, context does matter in this regard. Now if you had another team that outright had the same needs at us in the frontcourt who didn't jump at that offer, then you can make that argument.

If the Sixers and the Bulls really wanted Dunn so badly that they were making great offers, they would have made great offers that were a great for for each of those teams. They could have added players like Saric or other future picks in the offers. They didn't. That's the main point. What was reported by so called well respected experts was false. Ainge clearly stated so, and stated he would have easily taken any of those reported offers. The media also has a long standing anti-celtics bias.

Oh, he did? He "clearly" stated that there was no offer of Noel, Covington, 22, and 24? No? Yeah, I didn't think so...

Let's say, for argument's sake, that the above offer was definitely on the table from Philly for just the number 3 pick, I'm still not sure I'd do it.

I am a Noel fan, but he is in the last year of his rookie deal.  He's going to cost a large chunk of change after this season.  Brown's coming in cost controlled for the next four years. 

That's a big factor.  I can absolutely see why Ainge would choose to make the pick that he made over taking that deal (which we aren't entirely sure was on the table in any event).

[jpotter33]

Crowder, Bradley, and Smart, i.e. the 2/3 position.

Can I just ask why you keep saying PG/SG's are wings/SFs?  I am so confused by this.

Jaylen Brown is a 2/3, and we don't know what position he will ultimately be yet.

Bradley almost exclusively plays the 2. Crowder plays the 3 and the 4, but he's also capable of playing the 2 in lineups. The vast majority of Smart's minutes have been at the 2, and he's spent more time at the 3 than as the 1 since he almost exclusively played with Rozier and/or Turner, who both were the point guards of the lineup.

That's what I'm saying - our 2/3 area is covered by multiple guys that we project to keep longer-term.

[greece66]

I think there are just too many emotional over reactions from fans who had high expectations for unrealistic trades based on misinformation. If we had drafted Dunn, and the Sixers and Bulls refused to put together a good trade offer, these same fans would now be clamoring over the fact that we have too many guards and we have to trade one of Dunn/Smart and the league knows this so we're screwed.

IF the Bulls or Sixers were serious enough to get Dunn, they would have done so with the Suns or Wolves after us. They didn't manage to make a trade with 3 different teams that could have gotten them Dunn, so it is very apparent that they were not making good offers and what was reported was inaccurate.

TP  If the Sixer's offer was so good why didn't the Suns or Minneapolis take it?

Exactly. I address this question to ShAQATTACK and CoachBo and everyone who insists Ainge passed on a great deal last night.

A) Minnesota is already stuffed with bigs (one of which has HOF potential), so it makes absolutely no sense that they would trade with Philly. They also extremely loved Dunn and had a need for him, so Minny would make no sense taking that deal. It's called context.

B) The Suns obviously viewed Bender and Chriss as better, higher-ceiling prospects than Noel and Okafor, which are reasonable arguments. They also already have Chandler, who does essentially the same thing as Noel just not as athletically or good anymore due to him losing his athleticism.

So, no, just posting these two teams as evidence that it wasn't a good trade doesn't work when you take their context into consideration.

It is strong evidence, I disagree. If the Bulls offer with Butler was so good, the Wolves would have jumped at it. Having bigs has nothing to do with Butler. They would LOVE to take Butler to add to Towns and Wiggins. 

If Noel and Okafor are supposed to be so good, the Wolves would have jumped at the chance to take one of them. Dieng is no all-star. They also have a borderline all-star PG in Rubio.

As for the Suns, the majority of people here who are angry at Ainge for not trading the #3 pick are also the same people who absolutely hate Bender and don't think much of Chriss, so I as again, if the Sixers and Bulls offers were so good, why did the Suns prefer to take Bender over 'sure-fire all-stars'?

Reread the post. I said nothing about Butler. You also need to stop attributing arguments to me that I haven't made. I'm not an Okafor fan, and I'd be okay with choosing Brown over him. But Noel was my guy, because he fills an absolute need we have and is an excellent fit alongside our other defenders. He has DPOY potential, but AT NO TIME did I say he was a "sure-fire All-Star." That's a weak strawman argument.

I know it's a crazy notion to a lot of people, but "fit" and chemistry is a big concern in making basketball teams. KAT is a center, and he would not have fit with either Okafor or Noel, who would both just clog the paint and bring more defenders toward KAT. Thibs understands this, which is why he wouldn't even entertain anything like that.

As for the Suns, they just had different perspectives with us on Bender and Chriss. I was high on Chriss, and I think he was just as deserving as Brown to go to us at 3, especially with his better fit in an area of need. So they just simply valued him more than Okafor and Noel. Which isn't surprising since A) it seems that nobody wants Okafor due to being in the wrong era, and B) they already have Chandler. The contract situation matters for them, too - why trade for them when you can get at least another year of a rookie scale contract with two new guys?

So, yes, context does matter in this regard. Now if you had another team that outright had the same needs at us in the frontcourt who didn't jump at that offer, then you can make that argument.

By now, you have reproduced a slightly modified version of the same comment about Noel in virtually every active thread of the forums.

When Noel becomes DPOY and Jaylen Brown is still working out in the DLeague, I' ll come to the thread I'm sure you will have made in order to apologize. Meanwhile, stay assured: we all got your point.

More seriously, you grossly exaggerate the value of a one year rental. It is much preferable to take a chance at the draft  (esp. when you have so many picks) than give #3 for a player that could play for another franchise a year from now. ie even if Noel is as good a fit as you claim, it is still debatable whether he is worth a #3.

[Snakehead]

Crowder, Bradley, and Smart, i.e. the 2/3 position.

Can I just ask why you keep saying PG/SG's are wings/SFs?  I am so confused by this.

Jaylen Brown is a 2/3, and we don't know what position he will ultimately be yet.

Bradley almost exclusively plays the 2. Crowder plays the 3 and the 4, but he's also capable of playing the 2 in lineups. The vast majority of Smart's minutes have been at the 2, and he's spent more time at the 3 than as the 1 since he almost exclusively played with Rozier and/or Turner, who both were the point guards of the lineup.

That's what I'm saying - our 2/3 area is covered by multiple guys that we project to keep longer-term.

Except Ainge has said Brown is a SF/small ball PF so?

We grew very fond of Jaylen. He’s a great kid; 19 years old who has a man’s body, great athleticism, sort of a vogue new type of player in the NBA, of the versatile player, the versatile wings, can play multiple positions, defensively

And you just said Bradley plays the 2 only (so not the 3 or the wing position) and Smart only plays it at the very end of games if ever.   Smart is guarding the SG if Turner was on the floor playing the "PG" role  on offense while guarding the SF on the other end (because Turner is not actually a wing on offense, he is a big guard).

 Do you not remember Crowder getting hurt and our team not having any wing to take the minutes?

You are so far off on this but you've said it several times.  I don't get your angle.

Well I mean... I do get it.  You're trying to make your point logic aside.

[PhoSita]

How we look at this draft will all turn on what Jaylen Brown becomes, whether as a player himself or what he fetches in a trade.

Similarly, the second half of Danny's tenure (post-KG) will probably turn entirely on what the Celts ultimately get from all of these Brooklyn picks.

Guess we'll see.

As it stands now, the Celts are not better than they were to end the season, which is a fine little team that is likely to be playing in late April, early May, but not relevant at all beyond that.

Time will tell if free agency will change that at all.

[Celtics18]

Crowder, Bradley, and Smart, i.e. the 2/3 position.

Can I just ask why you keep saying PG/SG's are wings/SFs?  I am so confused by this.

Jaylen Brown is a 2/3, and we don't know what position he will ultimately be yet.

Bradley almost exclusively plays the 2. Crowder plays the 3 and the 4, but he's also capable of playing the 2 in lineups. The vast majority of Smart's minutes have been at the 2, and he's spent more time at the 3 than as the 1 since he almost exclusively played with Rozier and/or Turner, who both were the point guards of the lineup.

That's what I'm saying - our 2/3 area is covered by multiple guys that we project to keep longer-term.

Except Ainge has said Brown is a SF/small ball PF so?

And you just said Bradley plays the 2 only (so not the 3 or the wing position) and Smart only plays it at the very end of games if ever.   Smart is guarding the SG if Turner was on the floor playing the "PG" role  on offense while guarding the SF on the other end (because Turner is not actually a wing on offense, he is a big guard).

 Do you not remember Crowder getting hurt and our team not having any wing to take the minutes?

You are so far off on this but you've said it several times.  I don't get your angle.

The angle seems fairly clear.  He's not thrilled with the Brown pick; would rather have traded it for Nerlens Noel.

Ergo, it fits his argument to claim that a bunch of guys on the team play the same position as Jaylen Brown--even the ones who actually don't.

[jpotter33]

I think there are just too many emotional over reactions from fans who had high expectations for unrealistic trades based on misinformation. If we had drafted Dunn, and the Sixers and Bulls refused to put together a good trade offer, these same fans would now be clamoring over the fact that we have too many guards and we have to trade one of Dunn/Smart and the league knows this so we're screwed.

IF the Bulls or Sixers were serious enough to get Dunn, they would have done so with the Suns or Wolves after us. They didn't manage to make a trade with 3 different teams that could have gotten them Dunn, so it is very apparent that they were not making good offers and what was reported was inaccurate.

TP  If the Sixer's offer was so good why didn't the Suns or Minneapolis take it?

Exactly. I address this question to ShAQATTACK and CoachBo and everyone who insists Ainge passed on a great deal last night.

A) Minnesota is already stuffed with bigs (one of which has HOF potential), so it makes absolutely no sense that they would trade with Philly. They also extremely loved Dunn and had a need for him, so Minny would make no sense taking that deal. It's called context.

B) The Suns obviously viewed Bender and Chriss as better, higher-ceiling prospects than Noel and Okafor, which are reasonable arguments. They also already have Chandler, who does essentially the same thing as Noel just not as athletically or good anymore due to him losing his athleticism.

So, no, just posting these two teams as evidence that it wasn't a good trade doesn't work when you take their context into consideration.

It is strong evidence, I disagree. If the Bulls offer with Butler was so good, the Wolves would have jumped at it. Having bigs has nothing to do with Butler. They would LOVE to take Butler to add to Towns and Wiggins. 

If Noel and Okafor are supposed to be so good, the Wolves would have jumped at the chance to take one of them. Dieng is no all-star. They also have a borderline all-star PG in Rubio.

As for the Suns, the majority of people here who are angry at Ainge for not trading the #3 pick are also the same people who absolutely hate Bender and don't think much of Chriss, so I as again, if the Sixers and Bulls offers were so good, why did the Suns prefer to take Bender over 'sure-fire all-stars'?

Reread the post. I said nothing about Butler. You also need to stop attributing arguments to me that I haven't made. I'm not an Okafor fan, and I'd be okay with choosing Brown over him. But Noel was my guy, because he fills an absolute need we have and is an excellent fit alongside our other defenders. He has DPOY potential, but AT NO TIME did I say he was a "sure-fire All-Star." That's a weak strawman argument.

I know it's a crazy notion to a lot of people, but "fit" and chemistry is a big concern in making basketball teams. KAT is a center, and he would not have fit with either Okafor or Noel, who would both just clog the paint and bring more defenders toward KAT. Thibs understands this, which is why he wouldn't even entertain anything like that.

As for the Suns, they just had different perspectives with us on Bender and Chriss. I was high on Chriss, and I think he was just as deserving as Brown to go to us at 3, especially with his better fit in an area of need. So they just simply valued him more than Okafor and Noel. Which isn't surprising since A) it seems that nobody wants Okafor due to being in the wrong era, and B) they already have Chandler. The contract situation matters for them, too - why trade for them when you can get at least another year of a rookie scale contract with two new guys?

So, yes, context does matter in this regard. Now if you had another team that outright had the same needs at us in the frontcourt who didn't jump at that offer, then you can make that argument.

By now, you have reproduced a slightly modified version of the same comment about Noel in virtually every active thread of the forums.

When Noel becomes DPOY and Jaylen Brown is still working out in the DLeague, I' ll come to the thread I'm sure you will have made in order to apologize. Meanwhile, stay assured: we all got your point.

More seriously, you grossly exaggerate the value of a one year rental. It is much preferable to take a chance at the draft  (esp. when you have so many picks) than give #3 for a player that could play for another franchise a year from now. ie even if Noel is as good a fit as you claim, it is still debatable whether he is worth a #3.

C'mon, Greece666, you're better than that. That's obviously an appeal to extremes, which I have not utilized or argued.

[flybono]

How long have you been watching this team?

#1   19 24 vs .500 or better clubs 

#2   14  31 when the opponent scores more than 100 points

#3  No defensive presence in the Frontcourt

#4  No outside Shooters

And you wonder why all the negativity

And I guess adding Noel on a one year rental and/or swapping half of your starting lineup for Butler fixes all of this, right?

No it doesn't. Neither does JBrown.

At some point you have to pony up. Noel would have been that guy to solidify at least one issue. Not a Rookie at 19.

[kozlodoev]

How long have you been watching this team?

#1   19 24 vs .500 or better clubs 

#2   14  31 when the opponent scores more than 100 points

#3  No defensive presence in the Frontcourt

#4  No outside Shooters

And you wonder why all the negativity

And I guess adding Noel on a one year rental and/or swapping half of your starting lineup for Butler fixes all of this, right?

No it doesn't. Neither does JBrown.

At some point you have to pony up. Noel would have been that guy to solidify at least one issue. Not a Rookie at 19.

Yes, "ponying up" is what got us Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk. How did that work out?

[jpotter33]

Crowder, Bradley, and Smart, i.e. the 2/3 position.

Can I just ask why you keep saying PG/SG's are wings/SFs?  I am so confused by this.

Jaylen Brown is a 2/3, and we don't know what position he will ultimately be yet.

Bradley almost exclusively plays the 2. Crowder plays the 3 and the 4, but he's also capable of playing the 2 in lineups. The vast majority of Smart's minutes have been at the 2, and he's spent more time at the 3 than as the 1 since he almost exclusively played with Rozier and/or Turner, who both were the point guards of the lineup.

That's what I'm saying - our 2/3 area is covered by multiple guys that we project to keep longer-term.

Except Ainge has said Brown is a SF/small ball PF so?

We grew very fond of Jaylen. He’s a great kid; 19 years old who has a man’s body, great athleticism, sort of a vogue new type of player in the NBA, of the versatile player, the versatile wings, can play multiple positions, defensively

And you just said Bradley plays the 2 only (so not the 3 or the wing position) and Smart only plays it at the very end of games if ever.   Smart is guarding the SG if Turner was on the floor playing the "PG" role  on offense while guarding the SF on the other end (because Turner is not actually a wing on offense, he is a big guard).

 Do you not remember Crowder getting hurt and our team not having any wing to take the minutes?

You are so far off on this but you've said it several times.  I don't get your angle.

Well I mean... I do get it.  You're trying to make your point logic aside.

I love that you post a quote that supports my argument just as much your argument and claim it as evidence for your argument.  "He's a versatile player that can play multiple positions" =/= he's a 3/4 instead of 2/3. At most, its says that he can occasionally guard 1-4 for short periods of time, just like Smart.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jaylen-Brown-72912/

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaylen-brown

Both of these have him listed as SG/SF, so.....

[jpotter33]

Crowder, Bradley, and Smart, i.e. the 2/3 position.

Can I just ask why you keep saying PG/SG's are wings/SFs?  I am so confused by this.

Jaylen Brown is a 2/3, and we don't know what position he will ultimately be yet.

Bradley almost exclusively plays the 2. Crowder plays the 3 and the 4, but he's also capable of playing the 2 in lineups. The vast majority of Smart's minutes have been at the 2, and he's spent more time at the 3 than as the 1 since he almost exclusively played with Rozier and/or Turner, who both were the point guards of the lineup.

That's what I'm saying - our 2/3 area is covered by multiple guys that we project to keep longer-term.

Except Ainge has said Brown is a SF/small ball PF so?

And you just said Bradley plays the 2 only (so not the 3 or the wing position) and Smart only plays it at the very end of games if ever.   Smart is guarding the SG if Turner was on the floor playing the "PG" role  on offense while guarding the SF on the other end (because Turner is not actually a wing on offense, he is a big guard).

 Do you not remember Crowder getting hurt and our team not having any wing to take the minutes?

You are so far off on this but you've said it several times.  I don't get your angle.

The angle seems fairly clear.  He's not thrilled with the Brown pick; would rather have traded it for Nerlens Noel.

Ergo, it fits his argument to claim that a bunch of guys on the team play the same position as Jaylen Brown--even the ones who actually don't.

 

[Snakehead]

I love that you post a quote that supports my argument just as much your argument and claim it as evidence for your argument.  "He's a versatile player that can play multiple positions" =/= he's a 3/4 instead of 2/3. At most, its says that he can occasionally guard 1-4 for short periods of time, just like Smart.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jaylen-Brown-72912/

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaylen-brown

Both of these have him listed as SG/SF, so.....

Wow using Draft Express over the guy who runs the team and actually drafted him.  You sure got me there!

And again you're wrong about Smart and Bradley.

Maybe you don't know what wing means?  I'm trying to figure it out.

[Celtics18]

How long have you been watching this team?

#1   19 24 vs .500 or better clubs 

#2   14  31 when the opponent scores more than 100 points

#3  No defensive presence in the Frontcourt

#4  No outside Shooters

And you wonder why all the negativity

And I guess adding Noel on a one year rental and/or swapping half of your starting lineup for Butler fixes all of this, right?

No it doesn't. Neither does JBrown.

At some point you have to pony up. Noel would have been that guy to solidify at least one issue. Not a Rookie at 19.

Yes, "ponying up" is what got us Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk. How did that work out?

Hey, Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk were significant members of a team that made it to the conference finals.

[flybono]

Yet for the past two years we've accumulated assets and still are at .500.  Nothing wrong with fans being impatient. Ainge has been drafting potential instead of talent. By his team has been lacking talent and they need to go out and make an attempt at getting it....unless we as fans are supposed to be happy each year with mediocre players and draft and stash projects

How are they at .500?  They were 48-34, (0.585), last year with the 3rd youngest roster in the league and added a player rated in the top half of the lottery at a position of need?

2 8 in the weak East Playoffs says it all. As constituted this Team will not get better unless talent is signed or traded for. 19 year old kid is not the answer.

You drafted 8 Players last night. 2 landed you a First rounder that ain't worth the paper its written on. A bunch of Euro guys who will never sniff an NBA court.

Ainge should already know what Free Agents will sign here. If nobody legit wants to play in Boston then you must take chances with the trade market.

Ibaka, Young, Rose were all legit gambles if you cannot get anyone else. You had the #3 to move to get an established player. You didn't.

Purgatory!

[jpotter33]

I love that you post a quote that supports my argument just as much your argument and claim it as evidence for your argument.  "He's a versatile player that can play multiple positions" =/= he's a 3/4 instead of 2/3. At most, its says that he can occasionally guard 1-4 for short periods of time, just like Smart.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jaylen-Brown-72912/

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaylen-brown

Both of these have him listed as SG/SF, so.....

Wow using Draft Express over the guy who runs the team and actually drafted him.  You sure got me there!

And again you're wrong about Smart and Bradley.

Wow! You don't understand logic and realize that the quote you used provided you no evidence toward your claim whatsoever! You got me there, Sherlock!