Chicago Tribune on Celtics offer

[BitterJim]

I love that it's somehow become a criticism of Ainge that he refuses to do a deal where he gets the worse end of it. I would've sworn that was a good thing.

Apparently, being really good at your job is a bad thing

I think people are just a little too desperate for a star right now.  I'd rather keep our flexibility and try again in FA, at the trade deadline, and next year than make a bad move now that doesn't put us in position to contend.  Butler's a great player, but he's not a #1 on a championship team

[RLewis35]

Jar crowder is younger than butler.  Cheaper than butler. And has better effective field goal percentage than butler.

The additional picks/players aren't worth the upgrade for someone who isn't carrying us to a title.

[Emmette Bryant]

http://deadspin.com/the-celtics-draft-night-was-a-whole-lot-of-nothing-1782550409

[jpotter33]

http://deadspin.com/the-celtics-draft-night-was-a-whole-lot-of-nothing-1782550409

"Boston had made clear that Jae Crowder wasn’t going anywhere."

I'm really, really, really hoping that Crowder wasn't the stick-up again in this, but it seems like he was and Danny views him as "untouchable."

[guava_wrench]

I don't think the Bulls know what they're doing. Sounds like they were more concerned with not losing a trade than making a move to help them in the long run.

There was no reason for them to trade Butler unless they were blown away by a deal.

[heyvik]

I love that it's somehow become a criticism of Ainge that he refuses to do a deal where he gets the worse end of it. I would've sworn that was a good thing.

Apparently, being really good at your job is a bad thing

I think people are just a little too desperate for a star right now.  I'd rather keep our flexibility and try again in FA, at the trade deadline, and next year than make a bad move now that doesn't put us in position to contend.  Butler's a great player, but he's not a #1 on a championship team

you know what it is....Danny had an opportunity, at a point of leverage, to cash in his assets and he didn't do it. All the experts thought that this was the year that Danny needed to capitalize on the draft and use his 8 picks (most importantly #3) to consolidate and get a star player. He didn't do it. Some of us think that Danny tried to WIN instead of a win-win situation with other GMs

[BitterJim]

I love that it's somehow become a criticism of Ainge that he refuses to do a deal where he gets the worse end of it. I would've sworn that was a good thing.

Apparently, being really good at your job is a bad thing

I think people are just a little too desperate for a star right now.  I'd rather keep our flexibility and try again in FA, at the trade deadline, and next year than make a bad move now that doesn't put us in position to contend.  Butler's a great player, but he's not a #1 on a championship team

you know what it is....Danny had an opportunity, at a point of leverage, to cash in his assets and he didn't do it. All the experts thought that this was the year that Danny needed to capitalize on the draft and use his 8 picks (most importantly #3) to consolidate and get a star player. He didn't do it. Some of us think that Danny tried to WIN instead of a win-win situation with other GMs

Are those the same experts that got everything about this draft wrong?

Danny didn't NEED to do anything.  He could have cashed in assets for less than they're worth, but why would he do that?  That's just asking to be stuck with nowhere to go.

[Big333223]

It is definitely possible to try too hard to "win" negotiations, causing all of your regular negotiating partners to feel disinclined to work with you.

Which is exactly what many people are saying on Twitter. He played hardball a little too hard, and some didn't want to deal with him anymore.

But how does this square with the reports of him throwing picks at Charlotte last year? Those reports were not of a GM who was being too stingey.

I think it's more likely that teams are just asking for too much because they know the Celtics have a lot of capitol to spend. That sounds like it was the case with Butler.

So, instead, Ainge went to plan B where he gambled on someone with possible all star talent (Brown) and ensured that we'll have talent trickling in for the forseeable future.

[greece66]

I don't think the Bulls know what they're doing. Sounds like they were more concerned with not losing a trade than making a move to help them in the long run.

There was no reason for them to trade Butler unless they were blown away by a deal.

^p much this. We do not know the particulars, but it looks like the Bulls were shopping Butler and would have sold him only if a really good deal would have arrived.

[chambers]

"Other pieces would have been included" is huge. What pieces exactly? Rosier? Nets 2017? It makes a huge difference.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-main-bulls-spt-0624-20160623-story.html

The Bulls held advanced discussions with the Celtics centered on Butler and the No. 3 pick. One proposal featured Avery Bradley, a source said. Another involved Jae Crowder, a second source said. Other pieces would have been included.

But the Celtics have a reputation around the league of trying to win trades, and the overall package kept changing and never met the Bulls' liking, sources said. Management understands the talent and value of Butler. And the Bulls ultimately liked the package they received from the Knicks for Rose more than the package offered for Butler.

This is the part that means the most. Both last night and tonight, a bunch of people on Twitter and elsewhere say this very thing, and it's scary. People don't want to really trade with Danny because A) they don't want to be the next Billy King, and B) Danny always tries to fleece everybody. There comes a point (about a year and a half ago) where that philosophy just doesn't work anymore.

At least we know that ridiculous overpay that was floated around last night was fake.

EDIT: Also, other pieces would've necessarily had to be included due to salary reasons. So it very well could've just been salary filler and lesser picks like 16 and 23 at that point. Crowder and the Brooklyn pick was the rate to get him at the deadline, and I fail to see how it'd be any more now after their semi-tear down anyways.

Could be some damage control by the Bulls by not giving details of what those 'extra pieces'  were.

[jpotter33]

"Other pieces would have been included" is huge. What pieces exactly? Rosier? Nets 2017? It makes a huge difference.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-main-bulls-spt-0624-20160623-story.html

The Bulls held advanced discussions with the Celtics centered on Butler and the No. 3 pick. One proposal featured Avery Bradley, a source said. Another involved Jae Crowder, a second source said. Other pieces would have been included.

But the Celtics have a reputation around the league of trying to win trades, and the overall package kept changing and never met the Bulls' liking, sources said. Management understands the talent and value of Butler. And the Bulls ultimately liked the package they received from the Knicks for Rose more than the package offered for Butler.

This is the part that means the most. Both last night and tonight, a bunch of people on Twitter and elsewhere say this very thing, and it's scary. People don't want to really trade with Danny because A) they don't want to be the next Billy King, and B) Danny always tries to fleece everybody. There comes a point (about a year and a half ago) where that philosophy just doesn't work anymore.

At least we know that ridiculous overpay that was floated around last night was fake.

EDIT: Also, other pieces would've necessarily had to be included due to salary reasons. So it very well could've just been salary filler and lesser picks like 16 and 23 at that point. Crowder and the Brooklyn pick was the rate to get him at the deadline, and I fail to see how it'd be any more now after their semi-tear down anyways.

Could be some damage control by the Bulls by not giving details of what those 'extra pieces'  were.

Yeah, I think Gar even said today that they had no talks whatsoever with any team about Butler lol Even the hardcore Bulls fans are calling BS on that lol

[jpotter33]

It is definitely possible to try too hard to "win" negotiations, causing all of your regular negotiating partners to feel disinclined to work with you.

Which is exactly what many people are saying on Twitter. He played hardball a little too hard, and some didn't want to deal with him anymore.

But how does this square with the reports of him throwing picks at Charlotte last year? Those reports were not of a GM who was being too stingey.

I think it's more likely that teams are just asking for too much because they know the Celtics have a lot of capitol to spend. That sounds like it was the case with Butler.

So, instead, Ainge went to plan B where he gambled on someone with possible all star talent (Brown) and ensured that we'll have talent trickling in for the forseeable future.

True, but there's no certainty what those picks were. If they were all non-Brooklyn picks, which pretty much everyone assumes, then that's a quantity for quality trade that's not all that much of an overpay.

But he even said himself that he got a little too crazy last year in offering that.

[Bobshot]

I never thought Butler was in play after they traded Rose. The two were incompatible. The Bulls kept one.

I think it's possible Ainge is overvaluing his players. Also, it could be Stevens wants players that fit into his box. I wouldn't underestimate his input. He has not shown an inclination to play any of those rookies Ainge drafted last season.

[moiso]

There's not one player on our team more valuable than butler.  Not one.  Next year bkn pick don't know if I'd include that, but #3 and Bradley or It or smart or freakin jae crowder?  Absolutely.  We over value a .500 team that can't make it out of the first round for two straight years so what does Danny do?  Add to it with unproven rookies...brilliant. Keep hope alive, it'll still be just as strong in 2020

And... that's why the Bulls wanted more than one player.  What's the issue?  Butler isn't worth more than our whole team.

[Timdawgg]

What I like the most about the trades not happening may provide further consistency with our guys. Crowder and Bradley and even Thomas can sleep a little easier. Danny basically showed our guys there are valued by backing away. I also think Thomas would seem to be supported some by not drafting Dunn(another PG). Maybe Free Agency will be the best way to get this done if not this year, next year. It is not unrealistic to see any of our best players improve this year, Smart, Bradley, Crowder and Thomas. It's early but if what everyone says about Brown he seems like a Bradley type always willing to improve his game. I would expect at least 1 or 2 of these guys to make significant progress this next year. Maybe the Celts when 55 games this year and get out of the first round. Maybe whatever free agent we get along with continued progress next year is enough for Durant in 2017.