LeBron vs Jordan

[Kane3387]

Your post epitomizes the problem with the "internet era".   I saw Jordan first hand.  He's the best ever still.  I agree with that. But Jordan was never scrutinized the way guys in the blog/twitter era are.  You're remembering 86 Jordan as giving the Celtics fits.    He lead the Bulls to a losing record and got swept in the first round.    In the internet era, we don't look over a performance like that starry-eyed.

So what are we talking about? You answered your own question.

[celticsclay]

You can be smart and raise interesting points. When you are at your most ridiculous, like trying to include Jordan's win totals as a 40 year old on the Wizards with battered knees, it makes discussion pointless.

[tankcity!]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

So the fact that Lebron already lost in multiple finals and was saved by Ray Allen vs. the Spurs is enough to make a case for Lebron when he is 3 rings short? Thats good to know. Either it speaks to your NBA knowledge, or this post was made to get attention.

I think winning this ring just proves Lebron is better than Bird. He needs to win more to make up for the ones he has already lost.

[tankcity!]

Your post epitomizes the problem with the "internet era".   I saw Jordan first hand.  He's the best ever still.  I agree with that. But Jordan was never scrutinized the way guys in the blog/twitter era are.  You're remembering 86 Jordan as giving the Celtics fits.    He lead the Bulls to a losing record and got swept in the first round.    In the internet era, we don't look over a performance like that starry-eyed.

So what are we talking about? You answered your own question.

Yeah exactly. By the way LBrd. I'm still in college, much younger than you, and I have never seen anyone better than Jordan. This post really seems like an attention grabber.

[LarBrd33]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

So the fact that Lebron already lost in multiple finals and was saved by Ray Allen vs. the Spurs is enough to make a case for Lebron when he is 3 rings short? Thats good to know. Either it speaks to your NBA knowledge, or this post was made to get attention.

I think winning this ring just proves Lebron is better than Bird. He needs to win more to make up for the ones he has already lost.

Lol... "Saved By Ray Allen". 

I love that's the narrative now.  Does that mean that this fanbase now feels Ray abandoning Boston is justified?  Cuz I've been in that corner since day 1.  It made sense for him to leave.  Boston was done.

Anyways - lots of players hit big shots to contribute to Jordan's titles.   Jordan never won a title on two different teams.  Jordan never defeated a 73 win team.   LeBron's in the discussion already.

[tankcity!]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

So the fact that Lebron already lost in multiple finals and was saved by Ray Allen vs. the Spurs is enough to make a case for Lebron when he is 3 rings short? Thats good to know. Either it speaks to your NBA knowledge, or this post was made to get attention.

I think winning this ring just proves Lebron is better than Bird. He needs to win more to make up for the ones he has already lost.

Lol... "Saved By Ray Allen". 

I love that's the narrative now.  Does that mean that this fanbase now feels Ray abandoning Boston is justified?  Cuz I've been in that corner since day 1.  It made sense for him to leave.  Boston was done.

Anyways - lots of players hit big shots to contribute to Jordan's titles.   Jordan never won a title on two different teams.  Jordan never defeated a 73 win team.   LeBron's in the discussion already.

Your Ray Allen comment has nothing to do with the argument so I'm just going to ignore it.

And who cares if Lebron James won with two different teams? It's not even worth getting into this argument because you will look dumb when Cleveland loses next year. It's like Cavs were never down 3-1 in your mind. They're now unbeatable. Right... When have I heard that about an LBJ team before.

And you keep ignoring the fact that Lebron has already lost two finals so there is no argument you nikompoop. Wait until Lebron wins more. We all know you want attention and want to stir the pot because you want to be a famous NBA writer in the future. But it's not going to happen bro, so please just share insightful thoughts.

By the way, no one has ever taken a Jordan team to game 7 in the finals and playoffs I think. That's how dominate he was. I thought someone as old as you would actually appreciate his greatness instead of looking at a players stats and god given athletic ability.

[LarBrd33]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

So the fact that Lebron already lost in multiple finals and was saved by Ray Allen vs. the Spurs is enough to make a case for Lebron when he is 3 rings short? Thats good to know. Either it speaks to your NBA knowledge, or this post was made to get attention.

I think winning this ring just proves Lebron is better than Bird. He needs to win more to make up for the ones he has already lost.

Lol... "Saved By Ray Allen". 

I love that's the narrative now.  Does that mean that this fanbase now feels Ray abandoning Boston is justified?  Cuz I've been in that corner since day 1.  It made sense for him to leave.  Boston was done.

Anyways - lots of players hit big shots to contribute to Jordan's titles.   Jordan never won a title on two different teams.  Jordan never defeated a 73 win team.   LeBron's in the discussion already.

Your Ray Allen comment has nothing to do with the argument so I'm just going to ignore it.

And who cares if Lebron James won with two different teams?

Unprecedented.  Only two players in history have won 3 titles and 4 MVPs.  LeBron and JOrdan.  LeBron's carried two different teams to championships now.  That's incredible.

[byennie]

31 years old... Pick the exact age that comes *before* Jordan's second 3-peat, *after* his year off, and which allows for James to have played 3 more seasons?

James is working on his case, but the cherries are getting picked pretty hard here. If he wins 2 or 3 more championships in the next 3 seasons, then we can talk.

[tankcity!]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

So the fact that Lebron already lost in multiple finals and was saved by Ray Allen vs. the Spurs is enough to make a case for Lebron when he is 3 rings short? Thats good to know. Either it speaks to your NBA knowledge, or this post was made to get attention.

I think winning this ring just proves Lebron is better than Bird. He needs to win more to make up for the ones he has already lost.

Lol... "Saved By Ray Allen". 

I love that's the narrative now.  Does that mean that this fanbase now feels Ray abandoning Boston is justified?  Cuz I've been in that corner since day 1.  It made sense for him to leave.  Boston was done.

Anyways - lots of players hit big shots to contribute to Jordan's titles.   Jordan never won a title on two different teams.  Jordan never defeated a 73 win team.   LeBron's in the discussion already.

Your Ray Allen comment has nothing to do with the argument so I'm just going to ignore it.

And who cares if Lebron James won with two different teams?

Unprecedented.  Only two players in history have won 3 titles and 4 MVPs.  LeBron and JOrdan.  LeBron's carried two different teams to championships now.  That's incredible.

He didn't carry Miami lol. That comment in itself is really really dumb. Also I guess Irving sucked in the finals. Wow, you keep digging yourself in a deeper hole with your desperation for attention.

[tankcity!]

31 years old... Pick the exact age that comes *before* Jordan's second 3-peat, *after* his year off, and which allows for James to have played 3 more seasons?

James is working on his case, but the cherries are getting picked pretty hard here. If he wins 2 or 3 more championships in the next 3 seasons, then we can talk.

Pretty much. But that would be too reasonable. We need to react to the moment.

[byennie]

I think the key differentiator right now, is simple this:

Between 1990-91 and 1997-98 seasons, let's call it "peak Jordan", he:

* Won 6 titles
* Averaged over 63 wins per season
* Lost one playoff series, after joining a 31-31 team (Semifinals vs Orlando & Shaq)
* Had multiple titles with < 4 total postseason losses

No one player has ever dominated a decade like that- for 8 years literally nobody beat a Jordan team except Shaq (in 6 games when Jordan hadn't played in 1.5 years).

[LilRip]

Jordan and it's not that close at all. Jordan owned the 90's with two three peats and a retirement in between. Perhaps, a more interesting question would be:

Lebron vs. Duncan

[LarBrd33]

I think the key differentiator right now, is simple this:

Between 1990-91 and 1997-98 seasons, let's call it "peak Jordan", he:

* Won 6 titles
* Averaged over 63 wins per season
* Lost one playoff series, after joining a 31-31 team (Semifinals vs Orlando & Shaq)
* Had multiple titles with < 4 total postseason losses

No one player has ever dominated a decade like that- for 8 years literally nobody beat a Jordan team except Shaq (in 6 games when Jordan hadn't played in 1.5 years).

Sure... and if we're looking at LeBron at the same age, he's got 3 more years until he reaches the end of Jordan's 1998 peak.   So far he has 3 titles in 6 straight appearances with two different teams (incredible).   I doubt he wins 3 more over the next 3 years, but who knows.

Also, Jordan's Bulls went from a 57 win team to a 55 win team when he retired in 1994.  Kinda interesting.

[LarBrd33]

31 years old... Pick the exact age that comes *before* Jordan's second 3-peat, *after* his year off, and which allows for James to have played 3 more seasons?

James is working on his case, but the cherries are getting picked pretty hard here. If he wins 2 or 3 more championships in the next 3 seasons, then we can talk.

Pretty much. But that would be too reasonable. We need to react to the moment.

This isn't the first time I've made this comparison.  When he finally won his first championship, I made a thread pointing out that he was the same age (27) as Jordan was when Jordan won his first championship.  His resume at age 27 compared favorably with Jordan at 27.  That didn't mean he'd win a couple more. 

I wasn't the only one making that comparison, either:  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1228796-lebron-james-is-flat-out-better-than-michael-jordan-at-27-years-of-age

Now here we are at the age of 31 ... LeBron is still on pace.

When I compare them at age 35, will LeBron have 6 championships?  Probably not.   But given that Jordan only played for 3 more significant seasons and LeBron will likely play more than just 3 - it's pretty interesting to keep track of.

[GC003332]

  Only two players in history have won 3 titles and 4 MVPs.  LeBron and JOrdan.  LeBron's carried two different teams to championships now.  That's incredible.
[/quote]

Wrong again

Bill Russell won 11 titles and 5 MVP's