LeBron vs Jordan

[LarBrd33]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

[PhoSita]

If he gets to the Finals another 3-4 times and wins another ring or two, along with projected statistical dominance for at least another half decade ... he'll have a strong argument to make.

[max215]

The great ones sustain excellence through their mid 30s, so LeBron's got about 5 years to win 2-3 more titles and another MVP or two, then we can have the GOAT conversation.

[LarBrd33]

If he gets to the Finals another 3-4 times and wins another ring or two, along with projected statistical dominance for at least another half decade ... he'll have a strong argument to make.

He's already got Jordan beat all-time in Finals appearances 7 to 6, but a lot of that has had to do with surrounding talent.   Jordan's Bulls were a 55 win team without him.   Jordan played 5 seasons without Pippen (3 in Chicago and 2 on the Wizards) and never cracked .500 during those seasons.  Every year was a losing year.  Meanwhile, LeBron has proven he can join a team and immediately make it a legitimate contender. 

Consider that the Cavs were a 17 win team before he arrived.  They finished above .500 his second season and won 50 games his 3rd.  It took jordan until year 4 (with Pippen) until they even finished above .500.   LeBron turns the Cavs into a 66 win team.  He leaves and they go from a 61 to 19 win team.   They were a 33 win team the year before he returned - he returns and they go to the Finals back-to-back and Win a championship.  Meanwhile, the Heat go from making the Finals 4 years straight to ending up in the lotto the year after LeBron leaves. 

There's a legitimate case to be made, RIGHT NOW, that LeBron James is a better basketball player than Jordan was. 

There's things that LeBron does better - such as passing and 3-point shooting.  LeBron is his match athletically and has significantly more size.   

What do you think Jordan did better?

For the record, I still see Jordan as the greatest of all time mainly because LeBron has yet to prove he can beat a Monstars team.  But I think the case for LeBron is there already.   He's now proven he can win a championship with two different teams... teams that are not even contenders without him.   The Bulls were a contender in 94 without Jordan.

[Banner18now!]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

 You leave out the fact one of those season without Pippen he was out for most of the year. All he did was give the 86 Celtics team fits all by himself when he came back. Lebron could have never did what Jordan did in that series in 86. You also leave out the fact the competition in that era was not watered down like it is now. Jordan his first 5 years in the east had to deal with some all-time great Celtics teams, great Piston teams, very good Hawks teams. Tell me what teams in the east the last 6 years come close to the Celtics teams that Jordan had to play? How about close to those Pistons teams? Hell how about the Hawks??? Stop with this crap about stats when Lebron has had a free pass to the finals for the last 6 years. Sorry if I'm not impressed with him going 6 years in a row against weak teams.

[LarBrd33]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

Lebron could have never did what Jordan did in that series in 86.

What... score 63 points in a loss?   Sure he could.  Obviously.   The 86 Bulls went 30-50, fluked their way into the playoffs, and got swept in the first round by the Celtics. 

LeBron almost knocked off the 2008 Celtics.  People forget that series went 7 games and came down to 5 points with Delonte West acting as his second best player.

You post epitomizes the problem with the "internet era".   I saw Jordan first hand.  He's the best ever still.  I agree with that.  But Jordan was never scrutinized the way guys in the blog/twitter era are.  You're remembering 86 Jordan as giving the Celtics fits.    He lead the Bulls to a losing record and got swept in the first round.    In the internet era, we don't look over a performance like that starry-eyed.

BTW, it was a double overtime game in which JOrdan took 41 shots and played 53 minutes.  Classic performance nonetheless, but it resulted in a loss.

86 Jordan:  63 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, 3 steals in one game.   Leads his team to a losing record and gets swept in round 1.

08 LeBron:  45 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals in one game in 7 less minutes.   Leads his team to a winning record and takes the Celtics to 7 games - losing by 5 in the clinching game.

What else you got?

[Banner18now!]

At the same age.

31 year old Jordan (Just finished the 1994-95 Season after returning from baseball)

3× NBA champion (1991–1993) - 3 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (1991–1993)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992)
9× NBA All-Star (1985–1993)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988)
7× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)


31 year old LeBron James (just finished the 2015-16 Season after returning to Cleveland):

3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016) - 7 appearances
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
12× NBA All-Star (2005–2016)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)
10× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2016)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)

Consider how many years LeBron has left playing at a high level.  Also consider that Michael Jordan never had an above-.500 record without Scottie Pippen (in 5 tries) and the Bulls won 55 games without him.   Consider that the Heat and Cavs were immediately trash in the wake of LeBron leaving.  Discuss.

Lebron could have never did what Jordan did in that series in 86.

What... score 63 points in a loss?   Sure he could.  Obviously.   The 86 Bulls went 30-50, fluked their way into the playoffs, and got swept in the first round by the Celtics. 

LeBron almost knocked off the 2008 Celtics.  People forget that series went 7 games and came down to 5 points with Delonte West acting as his second best player.

You apparently don't remember how there was no talent on that Bulls team, it was worst than any team James ever played on. The Bulls record was that because Jordan was out with an injury for 80% of the year. The 86 Celtics are considered one of if not the greatest team of all time and Jordan, at Boston no less, almost single handily beat the Celtics in game 1 and 2. Game 2 going to double overtime. Not impressive at all to you. Take your head out of Lebron's but to appreciate what other NBA greats did.

[Ilikesports17]

I think Lebron will not be able to sustain his dominance the way Jordan did. Im not sure why I feel that way, but I do feel Lebron is in a decline. He will continue to be terrific, but I think to pass Jordan, he needs to win probably 2 more finals and at least 1 more MVP. For me those are conservative numbers. Thats when Ill be willing to have the converation.

[LarBrd33]

I think Lebron will not be able to sustain his dominance the way Jordan did. Im not sure why I feel that way, but I do feel Lebron is in a decline. He will continue to be terrific, but I think to pass Jordan, he needs to win probably 2 more finals and at least 1 more MVP. For me those are conservative numbers. Thats when Ill be willing to have the converation.

At this age, Jordan had 3 key years left.  Granted, they were epic back-to-back-back title years with a 72 win season. He then retired.

Also, those last 3 years, Jordan evolved into a more crafty player with incredible mid range shooting and less reliance on his athleticism.

Do you see Lebron remaining at this level for less than 3 years ?

Honestly, with his advanced skill set and body size - as well as modern sports science, I'm fully prepared to see Lebron play until he's 40.  He can evolve into a hybrid of Magic Johnson and Karl Malone if he stays healthy.  Only thing left for him to accomplish at this point:

- defeat the Monstars
- win with a 3rd team?
- play long enough that he shares a court with LeBron James Jr.    Kid should enter the league when bron is 39 ... 8 years from now. 

[LarBrd33]

Honestly it's a fitting time for space jam 2.  Lebron is at the same point when Jordan was in the first one.

[Kane3387]

Jordan.


Even tonight Kyrie was the best player on the floor. Lebron was epic in this series though without question.


But I'll take jordan. It's not close for me. He doesn't ever lose to Dallas like James did.


Lebron is he second best player I have ever had the pleasure of watching. Jordan was the best I ever saw.

[passesofftodj]

Jordan also played in college and won a title hitting the game winning shot.  LeBron had more years in the league at the same age.

[chiken Green]

So we are basically giving out Participation Trophies at this point.  We want to Skip the guys who have the same number of Rings as he and Totally ignore the Cats with 5 actual Rings (one of which beat him twice) and Go straight to the Front of the line.. 

Heck since it was Lebron Should he be in the conversation anyway since he did beat the guy once? Maybe not at the top but maybe better than bird or Shaq??

This is so insane to me.. (sorry, carry on)

[KG Living Legend]

 The Major injury is coming in the next two years. He's been too Lucky. Those incredible minutes will catch up to him. Father time is undefeated.

[Kane3387]

Lebron has played more seasons in your comparison also.

Lebron choked against the Mavs. Jordan never did that. That somewhat kills the argument.

Ray Allen saved Lebron in 2013. He saved that dudes legacy.

Lol you're counting Jordan with the Wizards? That's pathetic. The dude was like 40.

If Lebron wins three more and another MVP than let's talk. Oh and gets three more finals MVPs too. Don't be a prisoner of the moment Bird.