SI Video on Bender

[kozlodoev]

What is your realistic best case scenario then?

I fully expect a Kelly Olynyk type of production, with the requisite benefits of being slightly longer.

Koz, your negative predictions about Bender remind me of your dismissiveness of Porzingis a couple of years ago when he was in the 2014 draft.  It's a fair comparison because Porzingis was the same age as Bender then (he is two years older).

Porzingis was projected mid-first round before he pulled out. I'll be perfectly fine with Bender at 16.

[ederson]

What is your realistic best case scenario then?

I fully expect a Kelly Olynyk type of production, with the requisite benefits of being slightly longer.

Koz, your negative predictions about Bender remind me of your dismissiveness of Porzingis a couple of years ago when he was in the 2014 draft.  It's a fair comparison because Porzingis was the same age as Bender then (he is two years older).

Porzingis was a year older. If you want to talk about drafting Bender next year after he has spend a season as a rotation player in a major European league, be my guest.

For some strange reason people here believe that the Israeli league is as strong as the Spanish ACB. 

[Celtics4ever]

We will soon know Ainge already has said his body has a long way to go, but what he says post workout next week will be interesting.   

Porzingas had a max vertical of 38"  Bender is 27.5" that is a huge difference in terms of athletic ability folks.   That could be the difference between a shot clearing the defenders hand or a rich diet of Spalding from eating too many blocked shots.

Bender could be special for us.. That's worth taking a chance on - We can Afford to take that chance.. The Celtics need a face..

He could be out of the league too, in a heartbeat.   

The Celtics need a face?   Gimme a break, is this really who you want as the franchise face, not me.   We are not a boy band, we are a basketball team.

We don't need our #3 pick to be all world this year..  7 of the top 10 teams in this years draft are not going to make the playoffs regardless of who they draft... We on the other hand are already a playoff team and would probably advance out of the 1st round if We simply run it back with Zero Changes.

I disagree.   We need a contributor. 

This Kid looks like he can be special on Both sides of the ball..
This is a guy that in a couple years Free Agents would love to strap up with.. His style of play will attract talent.

Thinking about what CBS has done with much less talent both in College and Here...  He is probably foaming at the mouth to work with a guy who has this many tools in the tool box..  He has done so much with so little imagine what he can do with this young dude.

Sadly, I do not think you know CBS.   It is true he likes versatile guys.   But is Bender versatile.   His stat lines are not indicative that he does much well at all.

Here are his rankings in his former league
Ranks #87 in Effiency (5.6)
Ranks #86 in Points Per Game (5.4)
Ranks #76 in Rebounds Per Game (2.7)
Ranks #90 in Steals Per Game (0.6)
Ranks #110 in Turnovers Per Game (0.6)
Ranks #15 in Blocks Per Game (0.9)
Ranks #11 in 3-Pts Percentage (40.4%)

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=7&lang=en

He can shoot threes and block some shots, I doubt he does that as well here are over there.   The rest of his game is below mediocre.

I agree that the league he was in is very competitive

I fell out of my chair laughing at this sarcasm, brillant!

Here are some of the leaders in scoring.  Will Clyburn, Charles Thomas, Diante Garrett, Alando Tucker and Paul Delaney.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=21&TeamId=956&cYear=2016&lang=en

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=23&TeamId=960&cYear=2016&lang=en

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=08&TeamId=960&cYear=2016&lang=en

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=25&TeamId=957&cYear=2016&lang=en

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=21&TeamId=957&cYear=2016&lang=en

Statistic leaders

http://basket.co.il/StatsPage_Leaders.asp?lang=en

You ever heard of any of these guys all Americans and leading the league in scoring?  Then How good is the league folks? 

[footey]

Curious how Bender workout with Minnesota is going today.  Any news?? Open to journalists??

[hwangjini_1]

We will soon know Ainge already has said his body has a long way to go, but what he says post workout next week will be interesting.   

Porzingas had a max vertical of 38"  Bender is 27.5" that is a huge difference in terms of athletic ability folks.   That could be the difference between a shot clearing the defenders hand or a rich diet of Spalding from eating too many blocked shots.
...

cousins' vertical leap was 27.5"
brook lopez was 27.5"
vucevic was 23.5"
karl malone was 28"
larry bird was 28"
gobert was 29"

no, bender's vertical is nothing to write home about. but i am not sure it tells us much at this stage.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Celtics4ever - resorting to looks to express your distaste for Bender is superficial and kinda proves that you are just biased against him. If he was ugly would it make a difference? What about a different skin color? What if he had a full beard? What if he had blue eyes? Blonde hair?

Any guy who can play can be the face of the celtics. I don't care what he looks like or what country he is from.

[Fireworks_Boom!]

I'm completely sold that this is the guy you take IF he falls to pick #3. I'm not so sure he does...I don't see the Lakers taking a risk on him. I see him going to Philly #1 and Simmons to Lakers. With Ingram falling to us.

What this has shown me is we are going to get a really solid player out of this draft at pick #3 if we stand put.

[CoachBo]

Bender going ahead of Ben Simmons now?

 

This thread just gets more entertaining every day.

[CoachBo]

What is your realistic best case scenario then?

I fully expect a Kelly Olynyk type of production, with the requisite benefits of being slightly longer.

Koz, your negative predictions about Bender remind me of your dismissiveness of Porzingis a couple of years ago when he was in the 2014 draft.  It's a fair comparison because Porzingis was the same age as Bender then (he is two years older).

Porzingis was projected mid-first round before he pulled out. I'll be perfectly fine with Bender at 16.

Which is exactly where Bender belongs in this draft.

[oldtype]

I'm increasingly starting to see him as a high-floor, low-ceiling guy as opposed to a low-floor, high-ceiling guy.

Best case scenario he's a slightly varied version of Draymond Green: defends every position, reasonable from three, can make plays out of the high post. Bender is taller but probably has a bit less foot speed than Green. This would assume that both of his projected strengths (defensive versatility and three-point shooting) translate to the NBA. Obviously that's a really really good player, but it's still not a number one option on any team.

Even if one of those things don't translate, then you end up with a very high-end role player. A more athletic Kelly Olynyk (stretch big who can't really defend anybody), or a big-man version of Marcus Smart (defends everything, does nothing in non-transition offense.)

If neither translates, he's still a high-motor, high-IQ dude who's a big body that stretches the floor a little bit and makes smart passes. i.e. Somebody in the Tyler Zeller range.

I think the likelihood of him busting completely is very, very low. The only reason we think otherwise is because he's foreign when in reality he's probably been scouted more than a lot of the domestic guys in the draft. At the same time, I don't think he has much superstar equity unless he learns to do things that he hasn't shown at all so far (creating his own shot or blowing by slower defenders off the dribble, for example)

[hwangjini_1]

What is your realistic best case scenario then?

I fully expect a Kelly Olynyk type of production, with the requisite benefits of being slightly longer.

Koz, your negative predictions about Bender remind me of your dismissiveness of Porzingis a couple of years ago when he was in the 2014 draft.  It's a fair comparison because Porzingis was the same age as Bender then (he is two years older).

Porzingis was projected mid-first round before he pulled out. I'll be perfectly fine with Bender at 16.

Which is exactly where Bender belongs in this draft.

and since you are making a comparison, how did porzingis turn out?

[OldSchoolDude]

We will soon know Ainge already has said his body has a long way to go, but what he says post workout next week will be interesting.   

Porzingas had a max vertical of 38"  Bender is 27.5" that is a huge difference in terms of athletic ability folks.   That could be the difference between a shot clearing the defenders hand or a rich diet of Spalding from eating too many blocked shots.

Bender could be special for us.. That's worth taking a chance on - We can Afford to take that chance.. The Celtics need a face..

He could be out of the league too, in a heartbeat.   

The Celtics need a face?   Gimme a break, is this really who you want as the franchise face, not me.   We are not a boy band, we are a basketball team.

We don't need our #3 pick to be all world this year..  7 of the top 10 teams in this years draft are not going to make the playoffs regardless of who they draft... We on the other hand are already a playoff team and would probably advance out of the 1st round if We simply run it back with Zero Changes.

I disagree.   We need a contributor. 

This Kid looks like he can be special on Both sides of the ball..
This is a guy that in a couple years Free Agents would love to strap up with.. His style of play will attract talent.

Thinking about what CBS has done with much less talent both in College and Here...  He is probably foaming at the mouth to work with a guy who has this many tools in the tool box..  He has done so much with so little imagine what he can do with this young dude.

Sadly, I do not think you know CBS.   It is true he likes versatile guys.   But is Bender versatile.   His stat lines are not indicative that he does much well at all.

Here are his rankings in his former league
Ranks #87 in Effiency (5.6)
Ranks #86 in Points Per Game (5.4)
Ranks #76 in Rebounds Per Game (2.7)
Ranks #90 in Steals Per Game (0.6)
Ranks #110 in Turnovers Per Game (0.6)
Ranks #15 in Blocks Per Game (0.9)
Ranks #11 in 3-Pts Percentage (40.4%)

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=03&TeamId=950&cYear=2016&cView=7&lang=en

He can shoot threes and block some shots, I doubt he does that as well here are over there.   The rest of his game is below mediocre.

I agree that the league he was in is very competitive

I fell out of my chair laughing at this sarcasm, brillant!

Here are some of the leaders in scoring.  Will Clyburn, Charles Thomas, Diante Garrett, Alando Tucker and Paul Delaney.

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=21&TeamId=956&cYear=2016&lang=en

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=23&TeamId=960&cYear=2016&lang=en

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=08&TeamId=960&cYear=2016&lang=en

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=25&TeamId=957&cYear=2016&lang=en

http://basket.co.il/PlayerPage.asp?PlayerNumber=21&TeamId=957&cYear=2016&lang=en

Statistic leaders

http://basket.co.il/StatsPage_Leaders.asp?lang=en

You ever heard of any of these guys all Americans and leading the league in scoring?  Then How good is the league folks?

1)   Bender had a standing reach of 9'3 last summer and it could be even larger now.  He doesn't need to jump high.   He is being used as a 7'1 3 and D guy, of all the stuff that people say about him, his defensive skills are the most NBA ready, he just needs to gain some weight. Really who doesn't gain weight after they turn 18.

2)   Anyone can be out of the league, but with his skill set only an injury will have him out of the league.  I see his absolute floor as Rick Smits and that is worth a top 5 pick.  He's been projected as a top 5 pick for 2 years and a lottery pick for 3 years so a whole lot of professionals in the know like him a lot.

3)   We can sign two max contracts that = two contributors.  Draft the highest up side and develop the kid.  When those max players burn out in 3-4 years Bender will be ready.

4)   People doubted that Gobert ant the Greek freak could do what they did overseas in the NBA but they did. Drafting is a guessing game thats why Curry went 7 not 1. With money to Max out 2 players and 7 other draft picks 2 of them in the 1st round, and coming off a 48 win season, we can afford to take a chance that talent develops.

5)   It's a lot better then the NCAA.  Bender's team would absolutely destroy Villanova. The average age of players on his team is 29.  They may not all be NBA level but they would crush the 19 and 20 year old college kids.   You give the NCCA too much credit.  only 60 players get drafted and the are 64 teams in the National tournament.  That means the best players from each of the best college teams can't all go to the NBA.  Also, second round picks for the most part do nothing in the NBA and half of the first round really can't work into the rotation, so that means you have about 20 NBA ready kids playing in the NCAA at any given year.  Bender's team has former players that earned rotation minutes in the NBA.  Bender gets to practice against Vítor Faverani every practice.  That is big time development.  Yeah, Faverani didn't make it in the NBA but he had some nice games and is a big physical guy.  What NBA prospects right now could handle Faverani on the block?  Thats just one guy.  Bender is playing against Men who know how to play the game every day in practice.  They may not be good enough to start in the NBA, but there are a lot more guys in Bender's league who would get rotational minutes in the NBA right now and the NCAA only really has 20 at best.  Heck with the international players in the draft less then 60 NCAA players will even get drafted.  And How many of those will be out of the league by the end of their rookie deals.  Euro league is a lot better then what it was 10+ years ago.  A lot of rotation level NBA players go there for more money and more minutes.

[CoachBo]

What is your realistic best case scenario then?

I fully expect a Kelly Olynyk type of production, with the requisite benefits of being slightly longer.

Koz, your negative predictions about Bender remind me of your dismissiveness of Porzingis a couple of years ago when he was in the 2014 draft.  It's a fair comparison because Porzingis was the same age as Bender then (he is two years older).

Porzingis was projected mid-first round before he pulled out. I'll be perfectly fine with Bender at 16.

Which is exactly where Bender belongs in this draft.

and since you are making a comparison, how did porzingis turn out?

Little premature to be arriving at a conclusion about that, don't you think? Good rookie year.

Means absolutely nothing when evaluating the Euromistake.

[Celtics4ever]

cousins' vertical leap was 27.5"
brook lopez was 27.5"
vucevic was 23.5"
karl malone was 28"
larry bird was 28"
gobert was 29"

Cousins is stronger and can bull guys around ditto for Malone as well.

Your really comparing him to Bird?   That is pretty funny, and absurd.

All these guys put up better stats prior to the NBA.  Bird for instance averaged  30 PPG, 13 RPG and 5 APG for his college career.   None of these guys to my knowledge could not get off the bench.  Which ought to be a huge warning sign.

Gobert had better stats  http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/rudy-gobert-1.html
Vucevic http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/nikola-vucevic-1.html


Here are Benders

http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/dragan-bender-1.html

ender had a standing reach of 9'3 last summer and it could be even larger now.  He doesn't need to jump high.   He is being used as a 7'1 3 and D guy, of all the stuff that people say about him, his defensive skills are the most NBA ready, he just needs to gain some weight. Really who doesn't gain weight after they turn 18.

NBA guys will fold him in two with his strength.   NBA ready, I bet there are some eight grade football players who are stronger than him.  Bender will be in a Blender.

People doubted that Gobert ant the Greek freak could do what they did overseas in the NBA but they did. Drafting is a guessing game thats why Curry went 7 not 1. With money to Max out 2 players and 7 other draft picks 2 of them in the 1st round, and coming off a 48 win season, we can afford to take a chance that talent develops.

http://www.eurobasket2015.org/en/compID_qMRZdYCZI6EoANOrUf9le2.season_2015.roundID_9322.teamID_291.playerID_99285.html

Again Greek freak has way better stats than Bender.

It's a lot better then the NCAA.  Bender's team would absolutely destroy Villanova. The average age of players on his team is 29.  They may not all be NBA level but they would crush the 19 and 20 year old college kids.   You give the NCCA too much credit.  only 60 players get drafted and the are 64 teams in the National tournament.  That means the best players from each of the best college teams can't all go to the NBA.  Also, second round picks for the most part do nothing in the NBA and half of the first round really can't work into the rotation, so that means you have about 20 NBA ready kids playing in the NCAA at any given year.  Bender's team has former players that earned rotation minutes in the NBA.  Bender gets to practice against Vítor Faverani every practice.  That is big time development.  Yeah, Faverani didn't make it in the NBA but he had some nice games and is a big physical guy.  What NBA prospects right now could handle Faverani on the block?  Thats just one guy.  Bender is playing against Men who know how to play the game every day in practice.  They may not be good enough to start in the NBA, but there are a lot more guys in Bender's league who would get rotational minutes in the NBA right now and the NCAA only really has 20 at best.  Heck with the international players in the draft less then 60 NCAA players will even get drafted.  And How many of those will be out of the league by the end of their rookie deals.  Euro league is a lot better then what it was 10+ years ago.  A lot of rotation level NBA players go there for more money and more minutes.

Clueless, ever heard of amatuers in the Olympics.   Those Americans playing in Israel are guys who did not dominate over here but yet they do there?   Hmmm.   

Why don't they come back to the NBA.

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/01/23/nba-prospects-playing-in-israel/

[footey]

Any news on how Bender workout went with the T Wolves today?