Trading Bradley, Isaiah and #3 to Bulls for Butler ?

[Tr1boy]

#3, #31, #35 , IT, Rozier, Amir

For

#14, Butler

[PaulP34]

#3, #31, #35 , IT, Rozier, Amir

For

#14, Butler

I would do this because we can give the starting pg duties to Smart and easily replace Amir with Horford and still pick say Thon Maker-Valentine in the 1st this year.

[Ilikesports17]

[/move]msg2105010 date=1466027409]

What if this is a three team deal where Celtics get Butler + next years Chicagos 1rst round pick, Minnesota gets #3, Bradley and Chicago gets IT and Wiggins. It may need a third team to happen.

Thomas and Wiggins??? For Butler and a 1st!!! That's the biggest overpay I've heard yet!

Not really. Bulls get IT and Wiggins, Minnesota gets #3 and Bradley but at least Boston would get more then just Butler, we'd also get another 1st rd pick next year. It probably won't be the case but I can't see trading the 3+IT+ Bradley just for Butler. There would have to be something else or its not worth it

I do not believe the Bulls posses an asset big enough to make it worth it.

The Bulls get away with absolute highway robbery here. You must have a low opinion of Thomas and Wiggins.

I take it back LarBrd, you are correct! people really overate Jimmy Butler

[BornReady]

I don't think bulls do this
As with the pick they are most likely targeting Dunn

They'd probably want a healthy crowder over Thomas

[Future Celtics Owner]

[/move]msg2105010 date=1466027409]

What if this is a three team deal where Celtics get Butler + next years Chicagos 1rst round pick, Minnesota gets #3, Bradley and Chicago gets IT and Wiggins. It may need a third team to happen.

Thomas and Wiggins??? For Butler and a 1st!!! That's the biggest overpay I've heard yet!

Not really. Bulls get IT and Wiggins, Minnesota gets #3 and Bradley but at least Boston would get more then just Butler, we'd also get another 1st rd pick next year. It probably won't be the case but I can't see trading the 3+IT+ Bradley just for Butler. There would have to be something else or its not worth it

I do not believe the Bulls posses an asset big enough to make it worth it.

The Bulls get away with absolute highway robbery here. You must have a low opinion of Thomas and Wiggins.

I take it back LarBrd, you are correct! people really overate Jimmy Butler

TP dude
I just don't get when there are many possible moves to be done and especially moves that can upgrade us at CENTER. Why give up so many assets for a "pretty good" upgrade at shooting guard?
I get if we sign someone and that would allow us to keep assets for a trade, but if Ainge is smart he should be looking for a trade to get a guy like Cousins only so we can sign Durant. That's what I think is the best but since we did not get a top 2 pick, OKC did so well in playoffs, and SAC has made 0 comments about Cousins status nor have we heard of them making him available in trade talks with other teams.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Unless Durant's acquisition hinges on Butler, Bradley and Isaiah are going nowhere.

Butler is a top 20 player in the NBA, but Bradley, Isaiah, and #3 is a gross overpay for him. As a standalone acquisition, it's a backward step; and, on the court, it's a lateral move. If it's going to take that type of offer for Butler, I would pass.

Bradley and #3 is a solid offer for Butler that few teams will want to match, throw in one of Rozier/Mickey/future BKN 1st and it should be a done deal (I would try to hold on to Rozier like the Clippers held on to Bledsoe in the Paul trade).

That is an overpay. And instead of focusing on Rozier you should be thinking why we would include a future BKN pick in that deal, which in next years draft could net us a franchise type player.
I'd rather sign Allen Crabbe for our shooting guard over giving up all that. BTW this is just imo and what do you think about putting our assets to use in order to get a big upgrade at CENTER and then signing Crabbe?

[BDeCosta26]

Unless Durant's acquisition hinges on Butler, Bradley and Isaiah are going nowhere.

Butler is a top 20 player in the NBA, but Bradley, Isaiah, and #3 is a gross overpay for him. As a standalone acquisition, it's a backward step; and, on the court, it's a lateral move. If it's going to take that type of offer for Butler, I would pass.

Bradley and #3 is a solid offer for Butler that few teams will want to match, throw in one of Rozier/Mickey/future BKN 1st and it should be a done deal (I would try to hold on to Rozier like the Clippers held on to Bledsoe in the Paul trade).

That is an overpay. And instead of focusing on Rozier you should be thinking why we would include a future BKN pick in that deal, which in next years draft could net us a franchise type player.
I'd rather sign Allen Crabbe for our shooting guard over giving up all that. BTW this is just imo and what do you think about putting our assets to use in order to get a big upgrade at CENTER and then signing Crabbe?

I think that's an overpay if you include any future Brooklyn picks. I'd probably be willing to do a #3, Bradley, Rozier/Mickey deal.

I love Rozier, and I think he's gonna be a dang good player in time, but next years Brooklyn pick is GOLD. All signs point to a top 5 pick from them next year, and we could be looking at one of the best classes in years. If you want that for anything short of a top 10/15 player, you walk away.

Honestly though, I'd include one of the Bradley/Crowder/Smart trio, #3, one of Mickey/Rozier, and one of our later picks like 23, 31 or 35 in a deal for Butler. He's a prototypical 2 way player who would fit right in to this team, and he's a legit star on a good, long-term deal.

[RockinRyA]

And your proof that Tony Allen Jr. is highly valued around the league is exactly what?

Ainge didn't value Tony Allen that highly. I have zero doubt he'd move Smart to get a scorer. I certainly would.

Of course you would. You are the guy who wanted that trash Beasley on this team. 

[spikelovetheCelts]

Butler is so overrated.  Way too much to pay for premium brand Ricky Davis.

I would love to try the pot the guy who started this thread was smoking when he wrote it. Dunn at three will have a better career than Butler will. Thomas will be close. AB is 24 Ya right.

[footey]

Bulls would rather try to trade Rose. Once they realize that no one wants him (not even Sixers), they will have to get more realistic about trade packages for Butler.

[Casperian]

[/move]msg2105010 date=1466027409]

What if this is a three team deal where Celtics get Butler + next years Chicagos 1rst round pick, Minnesota gets #3, Bradley and Chicago gets IT and Wiggins. It may need a third team to happen.

Thomas and Wiggins??? For Butler and a 1st!!! That's the biggest overpay I've heard yet!

Not really. Bulls get IT and Wiggins, Minnesota gets #3 and Bradley but at least Boston would get more then just Butler, we'd also get another 1st rd pick next year. It probably won't be the case but I can't see trading the 3+IT+ Bradley just for Butler. There would have to be something else or its not worth it

I do not believe the Bulls posses an asset big enough to make it worth it.

The Bulls get away with absolute highway robbery here. You must have a low opinion of Thomas and Wiggins.

I take it back LarBrd, you are correct! people really overate Jimmy Butler

TP dude
I just don't get when there are many possible moves to be done and especially moves that can upgrade us at CENTER. Why give up so many assets for a "pretty good" upgrade at shooting guard?
I get if we sign someone and that would allow us to keep assets for a trade, but if Ainge is smart he should be looking for a trade to get a guy like Cousins only so we can sign Durant. That's what I think is the best but since we did not get a top 2 pick, OKC did so well in playoffs, and SAC has made 0 comments about Cousins status nor have we heard of them making him available in trade talks with other teams.

I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle.

It doesn't matter that Jimmy Butler is not that big of an upgrade to Bradley, stats-wise. You can't attribute a certain value to each player, add them all together, and the team with the highest combined value wins it all, that's not how it works.

Let's say we upgrade our two weakest positions with above-average players. I think most people would agree that's Center and PF. Let's assume a hypothetical scenario in which we add, say, Steve Adams at Center, and Ryan Anderson at PF. I think most people would also agree that those two are pretty darn good players for their respective position.

Our team would be

Adams
Anderson
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas

That team, while formidable, has not a snowball's chance in hell to win a championship.

It doesn't matter what kind of upgrade, in total production, Butler would be to Bradley. What matters is that in close games, in a playoff series, with only a few minutes to go, can this guy give you buckets? Is this guy dangerous enough that the opposing team has to gameplan for him specifically? Does he make the other team spend their ressources trying to contain him, thus opening up space for the other players on the team?

The answer is, Jimmy Butler is such a guy, Avery Bradley is not.

We can't keep this game of incremental value gain up forever, it'll lead nowhere. We have already won 48 games this season. We have to start dealing in absolutes when we evaluate a player's value to our team, when we ask ourselves "how does this guy help us win", not in relatives, anymore.
And speaking in absolutes, Jimmy Butler is a clear upgrade to Avery Bradley.

[sawick48]

I can't do another year of this ridiculous Durant hope.  I'm going to snap when he re-ups a 1 year deal with okc and have to read this garbage for another 12 months.

If we sign Jesus Christ himself, it won't be enough for us to land Durant.  Please, PLEASE stop talking about Kevin Durant and our possibility of acquiring him in this or any offseason. 

It's.  Not.  Happening.

[alldaboston]

I can't do another year of this ridiculous Durant hope.  I'm going to snap when he re-ups a 1 year deal with okc and have to read this garbage for another 12 months.

If we sign Jesus Christ himself, it won't be enough for us to land Durant.  Please, PLEASE stop talking about Kevin Durant and our possibility of acquiring him in this or any offseason. 

It's.  Not.  Happening.

then dont read it.

it's really simple, actually: you know how you clicked on this thread? yeah, dont do that. that'll solve your issue.

[SparzWizard]

I will laugh and hang up if I was the GM. Ain't including IT4 in a package for Butler.

[chiken Green]

[/move]msg2105010 date=1466027409]

What if this is a three team deal where Celtics get Butler + next years Chicagos 1rst round pick, Minnesota gets #3, Bradley and Chicago gets IT and Wiggins. It may need a third team to happen.

Thomas and Wiggins??? For Butler and a 1st!!! That's the biggest overpay I've heard yet!

Not really. Bulls get IT and Wiggins, Minnesota gets #3 and Bradley but at least Boston would get more then just Butler, we'd also get another 1st rd pick next year. It probably won't be the case but I can't see trading the 3+IT+ Bradley just for Butler. There would have to be something else or its not worth it

I do not believe the Bulls posses an asset big enough to make it worth it.

The Bulls get away with absolute highway robbery here. You must have a low opinion of Thomas and Wiggins.

I take it back LarBrd, you are correct! people really overate Jimmy Butler

TP dude
I just don't get when there are many possible moves to be done and especially moves that can upgrade us at CENTER. Why give up so many assets for a "pretty good" upgrade at shooting guard?
I get if we sign someone and that would allow us to keep assets for a trade, but if Ainge is smart he should be looking for a trade to get a guy like Cousins only so we can sign Durant. That's what I think is the best but since we did not get a top 2 pick, OKC did so well in playoffs, and SAC has made 0 comments about Cousins status nor have we heard of them making him available in trade talks with other teams.

I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle.

It doesn't matter that Jimmy Butler is not that big of an upgrade to Bradley, stats-wise. You can't attribute a certain value to each player, add them all together, and the team with the highest combined value wins it all, that's not how it works.

Let's say we upgrade our two weakest positions with above-average players. I think most people would agree that's Center and PF. Let's assume a hypothetical scenario in which we add, say, Steve Adams at Center, and Ryan Anderson at PF. I think most people would also agree that those two are pretty darn good players for their respective position.

Our team would be

Adams
Anderson
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas

That team, while formidable, has not a snowball's chance in hell to win a championship.

It doesn't matter what kind of upgrade, in total production, Butler would be to Bradley. What matters is that in close games, in a playoff series, with only a few minutes to go, can this guy give you buckets? Is this guy dangerous enough that the opposing team has to gameplan for him specifically? Does he make the other team spend their ressources trying to contain him, thus opening up space for the other players on the team?

The answer is, Jimmy Butler is such a guy, Avery Bradley is not.

We can't keep this game of incremental value gain up forever, it'll lead nowhere. We have already won 48 games this season. We have to start dealing in absolutes when we evaluate a player's value to our team, when we ask ourselves "how does this guy help us win", not in relatives, anymore.
And speaking in absolutes, Jimmy Butler is a clear upgrade to Avery Bradley.

    All this would be fine if this is what Butler actually did in the playoffs.. This is not what happens.. not saying that it will Never Happen it just hasn't up to this point..
In the playoffs you need your go to scorer to lead the charge.. That didn't happen..
they Beat the bucks in 6 - he averaged 25.. Against the Cav's someone else must have been toting the mail because he averaged 20 - his highest point total was 29, once.. the rest was 18,19 and 20 twice.. 
Again not to poo-poo the kid but all this Jimmy Butler Eats world stuff is more dream than reality..  has he had a few games where he did some 50 spot things  - once or twice ok, cool.. but Plenty of guys have done that..  Giving up what they are talking about giving up (3 darn starters in some cases) is absurd.. It's all based on Potential... 
We already have roster full of "potential."
In J'butlers elimination round he averaged 20 points.. In Avery's elimination round he averaged 18..
Undervaluing AB to bolster JB doesn't make sense and it's not going to make dealing for him any easier to swallow if we have to give up half the world for him..
Proven SuperStars are Absolutes... "Most improved" Good sometimes better than good players are not.
Jimmy Butler is not a Super Star nor will he ever be.  We cant pay for him like he is one.. That would be Absolutely insane.