Bidding for Justise Winslow hurting Danny's chances of moving up in the draft?

[Alleyoopster]

Last year Danny was willing to package a number of picks to select Winslow.

Team's now know he is almost willing to sell the farm to acquire a higher draft pick. It seems to me that almost any trade he makes to move up will come at a high cost. For example, let's say he wants to move from 16 to 13. He'll probably have to give up a number of picks to do so. Thus, our expectation that we will end up with all 8 picks at the end of the day seems quite remote.

Any one else feel that offering so much for Winslow hurts Danny's leverage? Or, that it help him?   

[dreamgreen]

I don't think it's relevant to the current situation. Last year was last year, this year is different picks and players and goals.

[celticsclay]

Last year was just a flat out dumb deal. Danny got saved by Jordan

[tankcity!]

We don't even know what Ainge offered, except that they were a lot of picks. There has been no confirmation that he offered Brooklyn picks either or sourced article saying that. Last year was last year, this year is this year. Don't think too much about it. Just wait for the draft and see what happens.

[mmmmm]

Last year Danny was willing to package a number of picks to select Winslow.

Team's now know he is almost willing to sell the farm to acquire a higher draft pick. It seems to me that almost any trade he makes to move up will come at a high cost. For example, let's say he wants to move from 16 to 13. He'll probably have to give up a number of picks to do so. Thus, our expectation that we will end up with all 8 picks at the end of the day seems quite remote.

Any one else feel that offering so much for Winslow hurts Danny's leverage? Or, that it help him?

1) I have no expectation that we will end up with all 8 picks at the end of the day.   I fully expect Danny to have to pay 6 quarters to get a dollar.  That's how the NBA works.   I'm not sure why I'd even WANT 8 rookies at the end of the day.

2) We have absolutely no firm clue as to what Danny actually offered for the #9 pick so it is impossible to say if it was too much.   All we have are conflicting rumors.

[LarBrd33]

I don't think it's relevant to the current situation. Last year was last year, this year is different picks and players and goals.

Right.  Part of the problem last year was that the perception was that the #16 pick was in no-man's land.  I think the draft was seen as like 11-12 picks deep at most.  We were stuck on the outside with a crapshoot of a pick.  Had we taken RJ Hunter #16 and Terry Rozier #28, nobody would have been shocked.  That shows you how much of a crapshoot it was.  It's also why I had created a couple threads during the Summer asking wild hypotheticals like if anyone would move #16 for a buy-low prospect who had disappointed thus far - like Nik Stauskas.  Fact was, the #16 pick wasn't seen as a major commodity and that's why Ainge tried hard to move up from there.   Ainge was rumored to have offered 6 picks, four of them 1sts.  But we can assume off the bat that one was #16, the other #28, then probably a future Boston pick or something.  We know one of the four first rounders offered was reportedly a Brooklyn pick (Simmons has suggested it was this year's Brooklyn pick), which sounds insane in retrospect, but at the time Brooklyn was still coming off multiple playoff appearances.     So we were trying to move up a pretty useless #16 pick to select a guy (Winslow) that a lot of people saw going top 5.  And the picks we were throwing in were pretty questionable as well.  When you cut through the garbage picks, we were really talking about trying to give up a super questionable Brooklyn pick for Winslow.  Kinda a "bird in the hand" type of trade.  Yeah maybe the Brooklyn pick ended up #1, but it was way more likely at that point to end up a mid 1st... so might as well get a guy they liked now.

This year, it just really depends on how they see the draft tiers.   From what I understand, it's a much weaker draft.  The top 2 guys might have star potential... then it's a lot of interchangeable role player talent.  And maybe if we tried moving up from #16 this year, we might be in a tier where picks from 9-20 are all roughly the same.  So maybe it would be easier?  It all just depends on how the draft is seen.   Draft pick values are not static.  The #3 pick this year is not as valuable as the #3 pick in 2014, but probably more valuable than the #3 pick in 2013.   It's a year by year thing.

[celticsclay]

I don't think it's relevant to the current situation. Last year was last year, this year is different picks and players and goals.

Right.  Part of the problem last year was that the perception was that the #16 pick was in no-man's land.  I think the draft was seen as like 11-12 picks deep at most.  We were stuck on the outside with a crapshoot of a pick.  Had we taken RJ Hunter #16 and Terry Rozier #28, nobody would have been shocked.  That shows you how much of a crapshoot it was.  It's also why I had created a couple threads during the Summer asking wild hypotheticals like if anyone would move #16 for a buy-low prospect who had disappointed thus far - like Nik Stauskas.  Fact was, the #16 pick wasn't seen as a major commodity and that's why Ainge tried hard to move up from there.   Ainge was rumored to have offered 6 picks, four of them 1sts.  But we can assume off the bat that one was #16, the other #28, then probably a future Boston pick or something.  We know one of the four first rounders offered was reportedly a Brooklyn pick (Simmons has suggested it was this year's Brooklyn pick), which sounds insane in retrospect, but at the time Brooklyn was still coming off multiple playoff appearances.     So we were trying to move up a pretty useless #16 pick to select a guy (Winslow) that a lot of people saw going top 5.  And the picks we were throwing in were pretty questionable as well.  When you cut through the garbage picks, we were really talking about trying to give up a super questionable Brooklyn pick for Winslow.  Kinda a "bird in the hand" type of trade.  Yeah maybe the Brooklyn pick ended up #1, but it was way more likely at that point to end up a mid 1st... so might as well get a guy they liked now.

This year, it just really depends on how they see the draft tiers.   From what I understand, it's a much weaker draft.  The top 2 guys might have star potential... then it's a lot of interchangeable role player talent.  And maybe if we tried moving up from #16 this year, we might be in a tier where picks from 9-20 are all roughly the same.  So maybe it would be easier?  It all just depends on how the draft is seen.   Draft pick values are not static.  The #3 pick this year is not as valuable as the #3 pick in 2014, but probably more valuable than the #3 pick in 2013.   It's a year by year thing.

I love how you spin a bunch of loose rumors into a matter of fact. It is a glorious art.

[alley oop]

This may sound harsh. I like Isaiah Thomas' heart and skill set and he's exciting to watch, but Justice Winslow would have been free if he hadn't been acquired and the Celtics were in the Lottery that year. Due to his height and age, and the limit that puts on his ability to defend, I don't see how he helps the Celtics become a contender.

[Celtics18]

I don't think it's relevant to the current situation. Last year was last year, this year is different picks and players and goals.

Right.  Part of the problem last year was that the perception was that the #16 pick was in no-man's land.  I think the draft was seen as like 11-12 picks deep at most.  We were stuck on the outside with a crapshoot of a pick.  Had we taken RJ Hunter #16 and Terry Rozier #28, nobody would have been shocked.  That shows you how much of a crapshoot it was.  It's also why I had created a couple threads during the Summer asking wild hypotheticals like if anyone would move #16 for a buy-low prospect who had disappointed thus far - like Nik Stauskas.  Fact was, the #16 pick wasn't seen as a major commodity and that's why Ainge tried hard to move up from there.   Ainge was rumored to have offered 6 picks, four of them 1sts.  But we can assume off the bat that one was #16, the other #28, then probably a future Boston pick or something.  We know one of the four first rounders offered was reportedly a Brooklyn pick (Simmons has suggested it was this year's Brooklyn pick), which sounds insane in retrospect, but at the time Brooklyn was still coming off multiple playoff appearances.     So we were trying to move up a pretty useless #16 pick to select a guy (Winslow) that a lot of people saw going top 5.  And the picks we were throwing in were pretty questionable as well.  When you cut through the garbage picks, we were really talking about trying to give up a super questionable Brooklyn pick for Winslow.  Kinda a "bird in the hand" type of trade.  Yeah maybe the Brooklyn pick ended up #1, but it was way more likely at that point to end up a mid 1st... so might as well get a guy they liked now.

This year, it just really depends on how they see the draft tiers.   From what I understand, it's a much weaker draft.  The top 2 guys might have star potential... then it's a lot of interchangeable role player talent.  And maybe if we tried moving up from #16 this year, we might be in a tier where picks from 9-20 are all roughly the same.  So maybe it would be easier?  It all just depends on how the draft is seen.   Draft pick values are not static.  The #3 pick this year is not as valuable as the #3 pick in 2014, but probably more valuable than the #3 pick in 2013.   It's a year by year thing.

I love how you spin a bunch of loose rumors into a matter of fact. It is a glorious art.

He is definitely the Michaelango of spin.

[timpiker]

I think Danny was drunk AND high to try that trade.  Thank goodness Jordan is an idiot

[hpantazo]

I don't think it's relevant to the current situation. Last year was last year, this year is different picks and players and goals.

Right.  Part of the problem last year was that the perception was that the #16 pick was in no-man's land.  I think the draft was seen as like 11-12 picks deep at most.  We were stuck on the outside with a crapshoot of a pick.  Had we taken RJ Hunter #16 and Terry Rozier #28, nobody would have been shocked.  That shows you how much of a crapshoot it was.  It's also why I had created a couple threads during the Summer asking wild hypotheticals like if anyone would move #16 for a buy-low prospect who had disappointed thus far - like Nik Stauskas.  Fact was, the #16 pick wasn't seen as a major commodity and that's why Ainge tried hard to move up from there.   Ainge was rumored to have offered 6 picks, four of them 1sts.  But we can assume off the bat that one was #16, the other #28, then probably a future Boston pick or something.  We know one of the four first rounders offered was reportedly a Brooklyn pick (Simmons has suggested it was this year's Brooklyn pick), which sounds insane in retrospect, but at the time Brooklyn was still coming off multiple playoff appearances.     So we were trying to move up a pretty useless #16 pick to select a guy (Winslow) that a lot of people saw going top 5.  And the picks we were throwing in were pretty questionable as well.  When you cut through the garbage picks, we were really talking about trying to give up a super questionable Brooklyn pick for Winslow.  Kinda a "bird in the hand" type of trade.  Yeah maybe the Brooklyn pick ended up #1, but it was way more likely at that point to end up a mid 1st... so might as well get a guy they liked now.

This year, it just really depends on how they see the draft tiers.   From what I understand, it's a much weaker draft.  The top 2 guys might have star potential... then it's a lot of interchangeable role player talent.  And maybe if we tried moving up from #16 this year, we might be in a tier where picks from 9-20 are all roughly the same.  So maybe it would be easier?  It all just depends on how the draft is seen.   Draft pick values are not static.  The #3 pick this year is not as valuable as the #3 pick in 2014, but probably more valuable than the #3 pick in 2013.   It's a year by year thing.

Well, going by that logic, the #3 pick this year is worth more than the #3 pick last year, considering the reports that Ainge wants more than just Okafor in exchange for #3, and Okafor, as last year's #3, put up very good stats and had a healthy season.